AMD vs Intel (2008)

[guymelef]

I don't understand the need to overclock.
In today's age, why bother overclocking?

I used to back in the day, when I was trying to run MAME, or epsxe on my amd k6. But now I can even get daily builds of Dolphin to run one or two games smoothly.

UT3 runs fine with most enhancements enabled.

What programs are they running to need to overclock?

My information is too valuable. Though I do have an extensively diverse and redundant storage portfolio, I don't see the need in putting my money at risk with over clocking.

Nobody is wrong for overclocking, or right for not overclocking.

Given the need, I would overclock.

But what need? Am I missing something? Is Vista THAT bad?

Hell i understand that you purchased something that is yours and can perform better. But honestly, is it usable performance without risk?

But I do see what you mean that the INTEL 6600 is a damn good chip for about 200 bones.
I'll stick with the am2+ quads, I like the way they handle under pressure and can't wait for some new software releases from the music recording companies like adobe, nuendo, cubase, propellerhead.

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Last edited by guymelef; July 28th, 2008 at 18:38..

[Chaos_Blader]

Originally Posted by guymelef

WOW!!!!!!
On a side note the "Intel Core2 Extreme QX9775 3.2GHz LGA 771 150W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80574QX9775 - Retail" on newegg is "Your Price:$1,549.99"

Extreme Editions are for true enthusiasts, with money to spend.

I don't understand the need to overclock.
In today's age, why bother overclocking?

I used to back in the day, when I was trying to run MAME, or epsxe on my amd k6. But now I can even get daily builds of Dolphin to run one or two games smoothly.

UT3 runs fine with most enhancements enabled.

What programs are they running to need to overclock?

I am not sure about Dolphin, but most mainstream games are GPU limited, so even if you did overclock to 5Ghz, you would still have the same framerate your GPU can produce @ res < 1024x768.

I know pcsx2 benefits greatly from higher clocks, and if overclocks are done correctly with 24/7 stability, it extremely lowers the risk of data corruption.

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[runawayprisoner]

PCSX2 needs overclocking.

No$GBA needs overclocking (yeah, I know you can get away with not overclocking this, but... it's not going to be as smooth as on a real DS. How can I tell? I have a real DS)

Supreme Commander needs overclocking.

CRYSIS definitely needs overclocking.

Photoshop also needs an overclocked system to run fine.

3Ds Max also needs an overclocked system to run fine.

Is Vista THAT bad? Yes, when you run too many things at the same time.

So it's just a choice, but it's better to overclock in general.

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[guymelef]

You guys are right, I do not disagree.

Photo shop runs fine for me. I'll give OC'ing a try just for PS2 emulation, but last time I checked pcsx2 looked about the same as dolphin. Both probably aren't ready for a full release, and are only tentative release betas to show off and get feedback, bug reports, and support, which I support.

I am not in to crysis, or supreme commander.

AMD 9600 quad, ASUS M3A, Geforce 8800, 4(2x2)GB 1066 corsair (room for 2 more), m-audio 1010 Delta (not LT), xp64 (+$500 well spent)

I played through castlevania on my DS, and messed with dualis, nocash and Ideas, I could get the game to run acceptably well (within about 5 frames), but DS textures seemed off, and sometimes completely corrupted with all the emus atmo. Ninja gaiden work pretty good with a few graphical glitches.

But I'll look into OC'ing just to see what happens. Though I don't believe in GHZ telling the tale of triumph for any cpu/gpu.

[runawayprisoner]

Photoshop would "run fine" unless you bump your works past 24000 x 24000 pixels... which is pretty mandatory for professional works.

PCSX2 and Dolphin requirements are about the same, with PCSX2 being a bit more taxing than Dolphin in some cases.

And DS emulation is not at its finest. But it should be quite intense in some games... Try Advance Wars: Days of Ruin. Or if you want to check the limits of your computer, try PCSX2.

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[Glaedrin]

**facepalm** you people seriously don't do your research, AMD CPUs have not had a FSB since K7 (i believe, might be K6) they have an internal memory controller (which is why they beat P4s hands down) and use a point-to-point technology called Hypertransport (which is what you are confusing for FSB clocks)

Now, AMDs K7 architecture did beat the P4s architecture clock for clock, but the P4 eventually made up for that with vastly higher clocks. AMD countered with the K8 architecture which was much more efficient and beat all single core P4s. They then came out with the X2s which held the performance crown until the C2Ds came out (for 5 years AMD held the crown)

Clocks do not mean crap if the architecture sucks, AMD taught Intel that lesson the hard way. My next point is that AMD would probably be doing better if they created a DDR3 memory controller already. Oh, and if you guys didn't hear, the new SB750 chipset allows higher OCs with X4s.

Oh, and a major reason why AMDs CPUs are sucking it up is because their L2 cache is way too low for gaming code, if you check out the transitor counts of the Intel CPUs you'll see that more than half of them are for cache.

For the record, I know that Intel hold the performance crown now, don't flame me just because I like AMD, and if you do, do your research.

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[Squall-Leonhart]

K7 had FSB, K8 moved to hypertransport

45nm Phenoms will have more cache apparently. less temps.

tasty
http://hothardware.com/News/45nm_Phe...cked_to_34GHz/

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Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; July 29th, 2008 at 05:01.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[PCXL-Fan]

Originally Posted by Glaedrin

Oh, and if you guys didn't hear, the new SB750 chipset allows higher OCs with X4s.

The new mobos have new southbridges and there is now a point to point means of communication between the cpu and the south bridge. Improving the southbridge would hardly ever be thought to be linked to CPU OCbility.

Best guess is by allowing an increase in voltage tolerance people willl be able to get an additional 100-200mhz OC.

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[Glaedrin]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

K7 had FSB, K8 moved to hypertransport

45nm Phenoms will have more cache apparently. less temps.

tasty

Thanks for the clarification, I think that even 1Mb per core increase (for cache) could yield large increases in performance.

I read an article last year that AMD licensed some RAM technology for cache called Z-RAM (or something similar) it was supposedly able to shrink the current process down and enable cache sizes of 15Mb+. I wonder how that is going...

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[Squall-Leonhart]

Fresh out of Fab 36, the 45nm process packs in more than just a die shrink, however.

The four execution cores will be augmented by a total of 8MiB of on-chip cache that comprises of 2MiB of L2 and a further 6MiB of L3. That, then, is a tripling of L3 cache compared to the incumbent models.

Adding more cache decreases the need for the processor to traverse to slower system memory, speeding up general performance on a clock-for-clock basis when compared with 65nm Agena.

Adding more cache, as Intel knows only too well, increases the transistor count. The die space for Shanghai is around the same as the current Agena SKU, thanks to the space-saving benefits of the 45nm process.

Native quad-core support will be augmented by tri-core models that will be released in present 65nm flavours real soon. Tri-core will be achieved by either deliberately switching off a perfectly-functioning single core or, as AMD hopes, bringing to market silicon that didn't quite make the quad-core grade first time.

AMD has confirmed that 45nm CPUs will be available in H2 2008. What really needs to happen in the interim is healthy frequency scaling by the Phenom core, to better-compete with the higher-clocked and more-profitable Intel 45/65nm quad-core parts.

Excellent

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[runawayprisoner]

In other news, Intel managed to kick their own a$$es with the E8600 processor.

X-bit labs - New Wolfdale Processor Stepping: Core 2 Duo E8600 Review

Check that out! 4.57GHz stable at 1.5v!! ZOMG ZOMG... I don't even want to imagine what kind of performance we'll see in PCSX2 at such an insane clock! Ahhh... you bet I'm having wet dreams!

And this just makes me want to say this to those hasty people that I just advised a week or two ago more: Hah, I told you so!!!

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[TBx]

You bastard RAP! I thought you were my e7200 buddy! First you rub the e8600 in my face, then you switch your processor to a q9450, at 4GHz too! Your ACF7P probably cools better than my TT as well... You shall not hear the end of this!

And to stay on topic. AMD got back into the gpu game well with the 4xxx series, though I've yet to hear any big news about the CPU side of things. 45nm cpus sound good... but they'll have to really push them seeing as Nehalem is coming out soon. Won't be easy competing with that.

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[guymelef]

I've always believed in AMD's mainly for price and stability. Kicking ass just comes with the territory. So AMD has a hiccup in it's reign. It's not far behind and catching up will be easy considering AMD's drive to innovate on a budget.

Intel always has a couple of good processors, but AMD never ceases to amaze in scope and breadth. AMD is always looking over the horizon while intel throws money and gets lucky.

I wouldn't be that mad if AMD does what nintendo did with SNES and trail the market making sure a quality machine is built at the same price the competitor built its machine with off the shelf parts.


Intel is top dog but AMD is just fine with me, my wallet and my applications.
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The AMD GPU's have me very curious indeed. I think a company like AMD is exactly the kind of innovation that graphics accelerators need.

I've always wanted another company to adequately compete with ATI all in wonder pro. (Do they still make those?)

No, not like they used to. Now video signal in is only achieved through a separate device. Either external or internal.

There's a nitty gritty discussion. Nvidia or ATI? Someone get a mod to start it.

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Last edited by guymelef; July 29th, 2008 at 10:10.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[gamefreak94]

Bottomline is:
Intel are like Corvette Z06s, they're fast, offer extreme performance but also rob your wallet
AMD are like Toyota's, they're practical, fairly good and dont end up putting you in debt.

But for me, its a little different, AMD processors overheat a lot here, and they're much more expensive (so they end up around 10-20 bucks cheaper then Intel) and here, the market for motherboards and chipsets that support AMD is very limited. So in my case, Intel is the clear winner.

Similar is the case with GPUs I think (though its not that big of a gap), when I brought my ATI HD 2400 Pro (512 MB), its closest Nvidia counter-part was the 8500GT, it offered slightly better Core and memory clock frequency (about 30-50 MHz more) but other then that nothing (as far as I know correct me if I am wrong though). But its cost was $33 more. Sam is the case if you go high-end, the HD 4870 a lot less then a GTX280 does but doesn't quiet deliver that much performance.
BTW, is the GTX280 even supported by PCSX2? (the FAQ says it supports upto the 8800 only)

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Last edited by gamefreak94; July 29th, 2008 at 10:22.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[guymelef]

Quality Chipsets and MOBO's are key when it comes to AMD's. A bad board will get you nowhere. I noticed a few rushed and shoddy am2+ boards right after launch.

Yes ambient room temperature is a constant concern, just ask the IT guys at your local cubicle land.

But if you want cool and quiet, get a mac notebook, or eepeecee or whatever their called.

BTW. when it comes to solid productivity, robust programs, ease of use, low temp, well you know......

[gamefreak94]

I'd like to correct the "bottmline is" bit because it was a bit too extreme I think:
Bottomline for most is:
Intel offers better speed and performance but it is heavier on the pocket
AMD is a bit more cheap and offers fairly good performance

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Last edited by gamefreak94; July 29th, 2008 at 10:35..

[StriderVM]

Every processor has shoddy chipsets. There's no exception to people trying to make a quick buck.

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[Glaedrin]

Originally Posted by gamefreak94

Bottomline is:
Intel are like Corvette Z06s, they're fast, offer extreme performance but also rob your wallet
AMD are like Toyota's, they're practical, fairly good and dont end up putting you in debt.

Aww come on gamefreak, your tearin out my heart heart! I would do the comparison like this, AMD is a Firebird Trans Am, far cheaper with decent performance.

Don't use imports when comparing my beloved AMD that's just wrong, it is not a rice burner!

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[gamefreak94]

A devout AMD fan form head to toe, (AMD+ATI) It may be different in your case due to personal opinion and conditions, but for me Intel is the undisputed champion

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[runawayprisoner]

Originally Posted by TBx

You bastard RAP! I thought you were my e7200 buddy! First you rub the e8600 in my face, then you switch your processor to a q9450, at 4GHz too! Your ACF7P probably cools better than my TT as well... You shall not hear the end of this!

'Cuz my brother took the E7200, and the HD4850... and left me with $500. It's either P45 coupled with a Q9450, or... P45 coupled with a E8600... I don't have a choice.

And to stay on topic. AMD got back into the gpu game well with the 4xxx series, though I've yet to hear any big news about the CPU side of things. 45nm cpus sound good... but they'll have to really push them seeing as Nehalem is coming out soon. Won't be easy competing with that.

I might consider switching to AMD altogether to conform to unity. But... it ain't looking too good, since E8600 is such an insane overclocker.

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