What makes Xbox360 ellite different from the original?

[runawayprisoner]

Originally Posted by refraction

well... if i go off their quoted 30ish% failure rate, n they've sold about 10 million, that'd make it about 7million are still alive and kicking, unless ppl are just throwing them away ;p

In some South-East Asian countries (SEA - tropical! Which also means... insanely hot weather), some households have up to 12 or even 24 360s... for rent almost 24/7. Does that tell you why the failure rate (overheating) of the 360 is so high now? But here's another point: They pirate things a lot in SEA countries... and if the failure rate is up to 30% just because of those countries, I'd say that piracy on the 360 is at least a bit more than 30%.

And Hushypushy: I admit... I support the Wii, like the 360... and currently thinking about ebaying my PS3... does that count for anything?

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[hushypushy]

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

And Hushypushy: I admit... I support the Wii, like the 360... and currently thinking about ebaying my PS3... does that count for anything?

Nope.

In fact, I don't even care what you really believe to be true on the inside...all that I care about is what you say on these forums

It reminds me of people who say "no offense" when they've said something wrong. I hate that. It's like somehow one semi-related fact or statement somehow removes blame from the rest of the stuff you said. Well let me tell you right now: it doesn't.

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

Does that tell you why the failure rate (overheating) of the 360 is so high now?

See, that's why I want to know the stats for each country. I personally know ONE person who has a dead 360, and every store-display I've seen lately has flashing red lights (went to Best Buy today, saw another dead one! but then again, they sit in a non-ventilated little box, so what do expect?)...but 30% seems a bit extreme.

(sorry for quoting you out of order btw)

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[Samor]

Originally Posted by Master Chief

I was never aware of that happening.

Well, Metalmurphy and I encountered a game not working through Hamachi ( https://secure.logmein.com/products/...pn.asp?lang=en ), allthough I'm not sure if it was blocking perse, incompatibility or still some setting afterall. Either way, the game wouldn't work.

Such apps are by the way indeed not illegal; playing a game through it that you do not own means you're playing an illegal game, however that doesn't mean Hamachi is (or the Xbox method for that matter).
Hamachi is actually a good way to revive online games with "dead" master servers (provided they allow LAN play), but I still need to find people that still play Eracer Online

By the way, Metalmurphy is quite positive about the 360 every now and then, allthough I don't think he expressed it on emuforums often.

I think of the current generation the 360 has the best lineup of games atm, but the reported instability of the units is simply alarming. I know my luck with things like that so I wouldn't be tempted to push it. Since so many people reported the instability, I can't take it with a grain of salt either. Aside from that, my PC is new, so I don't really feel the need to get one right now anyway.

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[refraction]

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

some households have up to 12 or even 24 360s... for rent almost 24/7. Does that tell you why the failure rate (overheating) of the 360 is so high now?

Originally Posted by hushypushy

See, that's why I want to know the stats for each country. I personally know ONE person who has a dead 360, and every store-display I've seen lately has flashing red lights (went to Best Buy today, saw another dead one! but then again, they sit in a non-ventilated little box, so what do expect?)...but 30% seems a bit extreme.

(sorry for quoting you out of order btw)

well while this statistic point is probably very true, i do know a lot of people who had 360's bricked, at least 6 of the 9-12 people i know who have one. I live in england too which isnt exactly the warmest country in the world. Heres an interesting statistic for you tho, one of those 6 i mentioned above, died within the first 30 days of its use

Even an member here (i think he still is) from america is on his third 360 now. l0rd_sn0w is his name, owner of emunext.

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[Metalmurphy]

Originally Posted by FLaRe85

MM's full of ****. It's impossible to "block IPs" since for all intents and purposes, the XBox believes it's communicating with another XBox on the LAN. Apparently, he has no idea what the hell a proxy is or how it works.

I wasn't talking about the Xbox in specific, although its very well possible to do that in Xbox games as well, it just needs to be hardcoded in to the game. You have games on the PC, that require a CDKey to play online, and they block any ip starting with 5.x.x.x during LAN games for example, because that's the IPs used in Hamachi. Go download LFS and try it for your self. Then come back and say i'm full of **** again and its impossible to "block IPs". And apparently YOU have no idea what the hell a proxy is, cause proxys have nothing to do with tunnelling applications like these.

And hushy, everything i say about the 360 isn't an opinion, they're facts. I don't even remember the last time i gave an "opinion" about the 360 except that i wanna get one for Ace Combat 6 and that i don't wanna pay for online play. That's it, everything else aren't opinions...

And tbh, despite my support for Sony (yes i'm a Sony supporter, and in many peoples minds that makes me a fanboy already) i never even considered buying a PS3 yet.

Oh and "the man" was a PR from Microsoft hushy. I hardly doubt he would be lying about they're own defective rate when the number is so high. They lied when they said it was 3%, i doubt they're doing it when they said it was around 25%.

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Last edited by Metalmurphy; August 1st, 2007 at 13:23..

[BigIg]

Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

block any ip starting with 5.x.x.x during LAN games for example,

Yes, but usually there is an easy patch.

Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

although its very well possible to do that in Xbox games as well,

No, the Xbox honestly thinks its a lan. The only soloution is, like with x360 games, is a ping limit.

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[Metalmurphy]

Originally Posted by BigIg

Yes, but usually there is an easy patch.

That's not the point is it? If games are blocking it it means its a grey area. If you patch them then yeah, ur already passed the fine line between legal and illegal.

Originally Posted by BigIg

No, the Xbox honestly thinks its a lan. The only soloution is, like with x360 games, is a ping limit.

Doesn't matter, if those tools use special IP ranges, like Hamachi uses 5.x.x.x the game can block it with no problems.

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[hushypushy]

Originally Posted by refraction

I live in england too which isnt exactly the warmest country in the world.

Well I live in San Francisco where it's pretty much in the 60's all the time (~15C?) which is nice The only person I know with a dead 360 had the FIRST one made--the one with the silver instead of grey trim. In that case, I expected it to die. I expect all first gen consoles to die, actually, except for my Dreamcast (August 99 manufactured, still working to this day!).

Still though, I wish we could know what's going on per country...especially the US, because we have the most 360's.

Originally Posted by MetalMurphy

And hushy, everything i say about the 360 isn't an opinion, they're facts.

Ok, then I ask two simple things that I know you can do:

1. If it sounds perhaps a little too wild to be true ("they are still manufacturing defective units") then provide evidence. A news report? You might be right, but without citations, what you say is meaningless (like Wikipedia).
2. Stop saying it in such a biased way. If I were the only one saying this to you, then probably by this point of the conversation I'd retract my point. But notice how other people feel the same way I do..? As much as you vehemently try to deny it, the truth remains. Read your own posts, you are quite biased.

Oh and "the man" was a PR from Microsoft hushy. I hardly doubt he would be lying about they're own defective rate when the number is so high. They lied when they said it was 3%, i doubt they're doing it when they said it was around 25%.

You distrust everything MS says and paint everything that they do in such a negative way...but yet all of the sudden you put all your faith in them? Are you trying to prove a point to me, or is that what you really believe?

Well, since you're the one making these statements, I'd like to see some proof. I want to see an article where they discuss how many 360's have failed. I googled it, and all I can see is independent retailer guesses about it--MS hasn't issued an official figure, as far as I can tell, since they said it was 3-5% earlier this year. The only hint about the higher percentage that MS gave is that they "reserved US$ 1.15 Billion for fixing malfunctioning consoles, enough money to fix 2.5 million consoles." Out of 11.6 million sold, that would make a 22% allocation. Far from that 30-33%---that would be an extra 10 million consoles (3.5mil). So what's the deal? Let's see some real facts to back up your....well...facts. Like I said---I am goddamn sick of speculation. Throw all the facts you want, but stop with the bull****.


Xbox 360 technical problems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also! My statement was not solely aimed at you...I hope you didn't take it that way. I already warned runawayprisoner in this thread, and I was also speaking about when people phrase things like this:

They both are lame azz consoles with lame azz games that are also on PC, so what's the big difference?

And on a related side note...what's your deal with not paying for Live, MetalMurphy? Like I tried to point out earlier (in a sarcastic way) was that it's only $4 a month. I think it's fairly interesting how you (and many others) point out a lack of games...yet you refuse to pay less than the cost of one game for an entire year of online play. The reason that this is even MORE ridiculous to me is that it seems like this is one of your major reservations about the 360. It's understandable if you don't want to get a 360 because of the high failure rate...but you seem to mention that and Xbox Live in the same sentence when you're talking about why you don't want it. You want online play so bad...but you're acting like Scrooge about it (stingy).

That relates to the other thing I hate about the console war: fighting about games. I have spent as much money as possible on my 360 and Wii (no foolies) to get as many games as possible and I STILL have a big list of games I want to get. For this reason, I just can't believe that people somehow find a lack of games on any of the new systems (and if you really have a lack of games, then you should really be buying all the consoles to play it all). Most of all, I find it really hard to believe that the same people who would spend $600+ on games ("what are there, like, 10 good games on 360 and that's it?") are reluctant to spend $4 per month for online.


PS. I don't have Live Gold. Why? I don't really like playing online

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[runawayprisoner]

Originally Posted by hushypushy

Nope.

In fact, I don't even care what you really believe to be true on the inside...all that I care about is what you say on these forums

It reminds me of people who say "no offense" when they've said something wrong. I hate that. It's like somehow one semi-related fact or statement somehow removes blame from the rest of the stuff you said. Well let me tell you right now: it doesn't.

Then why did you ask Metalmurphy to "admit" something?

See, that's why I want to know the stats for each country. I personally know ONE person who has a dead 360, and every store-display I've seen lately has flashing red lights (went to Best Buy today, saw another dead one! but then again, they sit in a non-ventilated little box, so what do expect?)...but 30% seems a bit extreme.

(sorry for quoting you out of order btw)

Neh... no prob. I know it's a bit too extreme... but I know that the failure rate in those countries (SEA) should be way higher than here due to the extremely hot weather. You can think of 100 F as really hot here... but in some countries, 112 or even 130 is the normal temperature. If they are, however, only basing that 30% on the US and EU countries, I'd think that the failure rate will be even higher. This is not something to bash the 360, I'm just trying to speculate how the failure rate went up to 30% (That's roughly 3 million) and how they could "figure" that out.

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[Master Chief]

Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

That's not the point is it? If games are blocking it it means its a grey area. If you patch them then yeah, ur already passed the fine line between legal and illegal.

I have never heard any instance of games blocking these programs. I have never seen Microsoft say these programs are illegal. They ARE NOT illegal. They ARE NOT a grey area. I don't understand why you won't accept this. It doesn't make any sense to think that this is a grey area.

Do you want to know why Bungie released the Halo 2 Multiplayer Map Pack on a seperate disc in addition to Live? Not just because some people don't have LIVE, but because some people use these programs! They even said it themselves.

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Last edited by Master Chief; August 1st, 2007 at 18:11..

[Metalmurphy]

Originally Posted by hushypushy

1. If it sounds perhaps a little too wild to be true ("they are still manufacturing defective units") then provide evidence. A news report? You might be right, but without citations, what you say is meaningless (like Wikipedia).

Well i thought it was common knowledge, the 360 didn't have any major changes in hardware until recently where they started adding a second heatsink, and surprise surprise, only on the Elites. So they Premium and Core are still defective. And the older elites still have the problem btw.

Loot Ninja » New Xbox 360 Elite’s Have Added Heat Sink

Originally Posted by hushypushy

2. Stop saying it in such a biased way. If I were the only one saying this to you, then probably by this point of the conversation I'd retract my point. But notice how other people feel the same way I do..? As much as you vehemently try to deny it, the truth remains. Read your own posts, you are quite biased.

Whatever. You see it that way, people that know me don't.

Funny how the 3 people that love their 360s (and there is nothing wrong with that) are the ones seeing me as "biased". Maybe your the ones a bit too much on the defensive side?

I might have said some pretty stupid things, but that was back in the days JKK was around, and it was only to piss him off.

Originally Posted by hushypushy

You distrust everything MS says and paint everything that they do in such a negative way...but yet all of the sudden you put all your faith in them? Are you trying to prove a point to me, or is that what you really believe?

Please hushy, are you even thinking about what you just said?

Lying to make your company look good is understandable, lying to make your company look bad?...

And btw, it's called annual earnings announcements, they're made public to stock holders, and they had to justify the 1Billion in repairs by stating they had over 2.5 Million defective consoles.

The 2.5 Million was reported in Fox News, Microsoft it self have stated that EVERY console is defective, some retailers stopped accepting defective 360s, etc...

Of course depending on the conditions (weather, humidity, etc...) its normal that some people don't have problems. That doesn't mean there isn't one.

FastSilicon.com :: Hardware So Fast It Burns...
Excessive Xbox repairs cited in $1B charge at Microsoft - Jul. 5, 2007

Also, I already stated why i i'm against the current live fee. I've been playing online for free for ages, with good dedicated servers, now i need to pay to play on p2p servers? Nop. Charging for the others features is fine, but charging for just playing online is dumb.

Originally Posted by Master Chief

I have never heard any instance of games blocking these programs. I have never seen Microsoft say these programs are illegal. They ARE NOT illegal. They ARE NOT a grey area. I don't understand why you won't accept this. It doesn't make any sense to think that this is a grey area.

Do you want to know why Bungie released the Halo 2 Multiplayer Map Pack on a seperate disc in addition to Live? Not just because some people don't have LIVE, but because some people use these programs! They even said it themselves.

I know for a FACT that some games are blocking it. You can try it for your self, just go download LFS... That alone makes it a grey area. That's why its called a grey area, some support it some don't.


Oh and hushy... wikipedia?

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[BigIg]

Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

Doesn't matter, if those tools use special IP ranges, like Hamachi uses 5.x.x.x the game can block it with no problems.

I don't know how to explain this any better. The Xbox still has a REGULAR ip. I'd like to see them block 192.x.x.x

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[hushypushy]

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

Then why did you ask Metalmurphy to "admit" something?

For his own good

Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

Whatever. You see it that way, people that know me don't.

Funny how the 3 people that love their 360s (and there is nothing wrong with that) are the ones seeing me as "biased". Maybe your the ones a bit too much on the defensive side?

...or maybe the ones on the knowledgeable side because we actually know what we're talking about. For example, I have no idea where anyone gets off saying that there aren't any games for 360--I have plenty

And us with the working 360's are glad that what we have works. But still living in fear...well at least I am.

I might have said some pretty stupid things, but that was back in the days JKK was around, and it was only to piss him off.

Way to fight fire with fire

Please hushy, are you even thinking about what you just said?

Lying to make your company look good is understandable, lying to make your company look bad?...

They haven't said that it's around 25%. That number is speculation based on an approximate number of broken ones compared to the ones sold. In the letter/press release, they didn't even admit how many had problems, only that it was too much.

And btw, it's called annual earnings announcements, they're made public to stock holders, and they had to justify the 1Billion in repairs by stating they had over 2.5 Million defective consoles.

No, they allocated $1.5 billion for 2.5 million consoles. They never said how much of that has already been filled. So if they have ALREADY maxed out their budget (wow, that would be fast), that would be 22% (assuming that exactly 11,000,000 consoles are out there, it's actually closer to 12). Hmm...that's why I keep saying, I want to know, from Microsoft, exactly how many 360's they've repaired.

Of course depending on the conditions (weather, humidity, etc...) its normal that some people don't have problems. That doesn't mean there isn't one.

Right, who was saying that there wasn't a problem?

Also, I already stated why i i'm against the current live fee. I've been playing online for free for ages, with good dedicated servers, now i need to pay to play on p2p servers? Nop. Charging for the others features is fine, but charging for just playing online is dumb.

It's not dumb. You're paying for a service, and that service is fast, always-on (it's never been down for me, not even once) online gaming. Funny that you say charging for other features is fine, when those are the free ones to access, and the gaming costs money

Oh and hushy... wikipedia?

Well, all of the things I said were backed up by 3-4 sources for each blurb in the wiki article, so it was basically a link to a collection of links. I actually like to backup my sources--by the way, good job adding reference links in that post, that's what I like to see


edit: What were we talking about again?

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Last edited by hushypushy; August 2nd, 2007 at 03:03..

[Metalmurphy]

Originally Posted by hushypushy

...or maybe the ones on the knowledgeable side because we actually know what we're talking about. For example, I have no idea where anyone gets off saying that there aren't any games for 360--I have plenty

I never said that

Originally Posted by hushypushy

It's not dumb. You're paying for a service, and that service is fast, always-on (it's never been down for me, not even once) online gaming. Funny that you say charging for other features is fine, when those are the free ones to access, and the gaming costs money

The service is fast? Its p2p, its not fast cause they make it fast. Thats why i'm saying the actual playing should be free.

All the extra stuff like the unified service, stats tracking, etc... that's what i'm fine with them charging.

Why do you think Windows Live has online gaming included in the Silver account?... Cause they know its stupid to pay for something where it's always been free. On Vista you only pay for voice chat and stat tracking, etc...

I don't see why the 360 should be different...

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[refraction]

Originally Posted by hushypushy

No, they allocated $1.5 billion for 2.5 million consoles. They never said how much of that has already been filled. So if they have ALREADY maxed out their budget (wow, that would be fast), that would be 22% (assuming that exactly 11,000,000 consoles are out there, it's actually closer to 12). Hmm...that's why I keep saying, I want to know, from Microsoft, exactly how many 360's they've repaired.

just to quote smth ;p

July 19 (Bloomberg) -- Microsoft Corp., the world's biggest software maker, may report slower fourth-quarter profit growth today after paying as much as $1.15 billion to fix faulty Xbox video-game consoles.

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

i know its not an accurate or definate stat. but could be anything up to that. needless to say, theyve obviously spent a fair bit on repairs.

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[runawayprisoner]

Originally Posted by hushypushy

edit: What were we talking about again?

What makes the 360 Elite different from the original ones? *looking up* What's that mess? I'm sorry for going way off-topic with the "losing exclusives" talk... but... what the heck are you guys talking about... really? (No... seriously... I read through all of that... and I still don't understand a thing.)

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[hushypushy]

Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

I never said that

I didn't say that you did.

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[Samor]

Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

That's not the point is it? If games are blocking it it means its a grey area. If you patch them then yeah, ur already passed the fine line between legal and illegal.

Doesn't matter, if those tools use special IP ranges, like Hamachi uses 5.x.x.x the game can block it with no problems.

I know for a FACT that some games are blocking it. You can try it for your self, just go download LFS... That alone makes it a grey area. That's why its called a grey area, some support it some don't.

yeah, but then we tried a different IP and it didn't work either... that's hardly proof, is it? It just suggests that it COULD be blocking it.

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[Metalmurphy]

Originally Posted by Samor

yeah, but then we tried a different IP and it didn't work either... that's hardly proof, is it? It just suggests that it COULD be blocking it.

It didn't work but we got a different message. When we tried 5.x.x.x it just said "invalid" IP. It didn't even try to connect. When we tried the other one it just timed out so we were probably doing something wrong with the IP alias. Plus, there's a patch that "unblocks" the 5.x.x.x, so it is blocked

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