Sega in Hitler controversy

[JKKDARK]

Sega are courting controversy after releasing a T-shirt featuring Adolf Hitler's face to promote a new game.

The games giant are selling a T-shirt featuring Hitler alongside Roosevelt, Stalin, Churchill, and Mussolini as part of their promotional campaign for new game 'Advanced Dai Sen Ryaku' in Japan.

The item is for sale on the company's Japanese online store, but is unlikely to be released in Western territories as the image of the Nazi leader would clearly cause offence.

The game, which is based on World War II, is released for PlayStation2 in Japan on May 16.

[Razor Blade]

Well you can't erase history. Offensive or not, but marketing it is somewhat different on the other hand. Personally I think some people take it out of proportions, and turn it into a big deal, when it shouldn't be.

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[industrian]

I don't see any problem with this. If they had a picture of Hirohito on it instead would it have been any more controversial?

The item is for sale on the company's Japanese online store, but is unlikely to be released in Western territories as the image of the Nazi leader would clearly cause offence.

Maybe in your country as there are laws against that sort of stuff.

[Sosie]

...I don't quite understand the irritation people have with Hitler compared to people like, say, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, etc... Yeah, they all eventually lost. EVERY ancient leader has some huge and incredibly horrible thing they've done. It's just the new ones are better at hiding it. (usually)

[Player-X]

I wonder what would happen if someone looks like Hitler is walking around Germany, would they arrest him for "Displaying Nazi Symbols"

[Ryos]

Originally Posted by Razor Blade

Well you can't erase history.

That's not what a lot of people seem to think. Seriously, as long as it's not glorifying Hitler or whatever, he's just a historical figure.

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[hushypushy]

for a second there, Ryos, i thought you were me! what with that girls kissing avatar and such...let me give you some advice, from a man who has had to face the public's wrath on two seperate occasions, you should take that avatar down. i love girls kissing just as much as the next guy....wait, no i dont, probably a lot more. but unfortunately, its one of those "if one person complains..." type dealies. it sucks, i know. or you could just wait and face the wrath...

anyway, on topic, i dont see anything wrong with it. portraying history as it happened (zomg radical) isnt a big deal. without Hitler, there wouldnt've been WWII, so you know, he's pretty important. and come on, Hitler DID do a lot of good things for the German people (i listened to my grandma's stories on this a lot...she was a teenager in the 30s in germany).

i wouldnt get the t-shirt though, it seems too serious. its all about making fun of oppressive leaders....yeah check that attachment, that's a real T-shirt design.

Attached Images

communist party.gif (27.0 KB, 72 views)

[Radix865]

I'm not sure but I think it was Civ4 that when you played eith nazis in WWII campaign, there was no cross(don't know the english word) on the red&white flag... Are they trying to erase history, or something? It's not like that cross was originally a nazi mark anyway...

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- Soul Eater -

[industrian]

Originally Posted by Radix865

I'm not sure but I think it was Civ4 that when you played eith nazis in WWII campaign, there was no cross(don't know the english word) on the red&white flag... Are they trying to erase history, or something? It's not like that cross was originally a nazi mark anyway...

Cross? Do you mean the Swastika. The Swastika is an Eastern symbol of good luck (check here) and as you said, it's been around for waaaaaaaay longer than National Socialism.

I think that was Civ 3.

And about the whole "erasing history" thing... whenever something bad happens we try to forget it ever happened in the first place and that's just wrong. Western society in our rush for some Politically Correct Utopia are airbrushing everything that can be seen as offensive from history. Whether it's The Beatles getting their album covers altered down to the removal of the World Trade Centre from old pictures of New York City, there is a steady movement in place to actively alter history. And that is just wrong, because if we forget our history, we're more likely to do the same mistake over again.

And BTW:



That doesn't look at all, in any way, offensive to me.

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Last edited by industrian; May 2nd, 2006 at 09:19..

[Radix865]

That's truly not offensive, opposite actually:"to ensure this misery never repeats itself" makes it clear that this t-shirt really isn't pro-nazism...

And yeah, people try to forget bad things but what happens if they, well let's take an example that swastika, is banned from displaying in many countries(germany, austria, I think), so what happens when people forget why it was banned and then the whole meaning gets twisted, a lot like religions were twisted in time when original meanings were forgotten and old rules were used in a whole different and often wrong way...
It's kinda stupid, I don't think bad things like WWII, WTC or Bush becoming a president should be forgotten, damn I'm slipping from topic again...

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[mr.saraiva]

Originally Posted by Sosie

...I don't quite understand the irritation people have with Hitler compared to people like, say, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, etc... Yeah, they all eventually lost. EVERY ancient leader has some huge and incredibly horrible thing they've done. It's just the new ones are better at hiding it. (usually)

You took the words out of my keyboard...when i saw this **** the first thing that came to my mind was "What about Genghis Khan?"

[Grv]

Originally Posted by Sosie

...I don't quite understand the irritation people have with Hitler compared to people like, say, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, etc.

Although I would like to side with you and I would like to make these subjects uncontroversial, it's really not hard to understand the upshot. Hitler's doings are much more recent and still lay fresh in many people's memories, especially to those directly affected by the effects of WWII at the time. Many people still scarred from this make up a decent and vocal population.

Unfortunately, it makes controversies like the thread-subject what they are, letting them grow out of proportion, resulting even in imbecilic avoidance of such topics for far too long. It takes a couple of generations before it dies out.

Originally Posted by hushypushy

without Hitler, there wouldnt've been WWII, so you know, he's pretty important.

No-one knows what would have happened without Hitler. Could be for better or worse. I know I would not exist if it wasn't for WWI and WWII, though. Makes one even more reluctant in wishing it all never happened, despite acknowledging that similar events should be avoided.

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Last edited by Grv; May 2nd, 2006 at 20:55..

[Player-X]

No-one knows what would have happened without Hitler. Could be for better or worse. I know I would not exist if it wasn't for WWI and WWII, though. Makes one even more reluctant in wishing it all never happened, despite acknowledging that similar events should be avoided.

If I could go back in time and erase Hitler I won't without his evil we wouldn't have most of the things we take for granted like Jet engines and Computers

[D.D.]

Originally Posted by Gaurav

No-one knows what would have happened without Hitler. Could be for better or worse. I know I would not exist if it wasn't for WWI and WWII, though. Makes one even more reluctant in wishing it all never happened, despite acknowledging that similar events should be avoided.

indeed. i would not exist either if WWII didnt happen but i sometimes think if its selfish for me to think this way. ie. Rape of Nanking /other attrocities commited by nationalists/ vs me existing and would i still choose to exist ? im not sure what i would choose if i was to rewrite history

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[Grv]

First off, my apologies for leading the topic a bit astray.

Originally Posted by Player-X

If I could go back in time and erase Hitler I won't without his evil we wouldn't have most of the things we take for granted like Jet engines and Computers

Indeed, the technological advancement during the WWs would have taken much longer without war. But still, who's to say that without Hitler, no-one would have taken his place in starting some war that likewise could provide a solid premise for these technological developments?

Originally Posted by D.D.

indeed. i would not exist either if WWII didnt happen but i sometimes think if its selfish for me to think this way. ie. Rape of Nanking /other attrocities commited by nationalists/ vs me existing and would i still choose to exist ? im not sure what i would choose if i was to rewrite history

Sure, it may seem selfish, but also perfectly human and natural. From an evolutionary take, altruism is no less selfish. There are more reasons than such apparent selfishness not to choose to rewrite history, though, if you need them. Like: You simply don't know if changes really are for better or for worse. Or: Think of all the other individuals and events you'd undo. Aside from the fact that I'm an extreme far-end off from being suicidal, I know I'd opt for certainty over unknown alternatives when pondering the world's well-being.

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[Radix865]

Well, this may seem like a ripoff from Red Alert but didn't Stalin also have plans to take over Europe... So WWII would've happened anyway, its just that if it would've most likely been Soviets vs Allied, soviets would've won and I'd be speaking russia now.

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[industrian]

Originally Posted by Radix865

Well, this may seem like a ripoff from Red Alert but didn't Stalin also have plans to take over Europe... So WWII would've happened anyway, its just that if it would've most likely been Soviets vs Allied, soviets would've won and I'd be speaking russia now.

The "theory" was that France and the UK appeased Hitler because they feared an invasion by the Soviet Union. And ironically, the Soviet Union appeased Hitler because Stalin was worried about France and UK invading the USSR.

Stalin, until later, would actually use the "Socialism in One Country" idea before "borrowing" Trotsky's ideals of a World Revolution.

The belief that Stalin would have become a larger threat than Hitler is a common result of "what if" scenarios. Especially with the Free Republic types.

And about "you speaking Russian," your country should have kept fighting in the Winter War. You were kicking Russian ass.

[Radix865]

But I think that if there would've been no hitler germany never would've rosen to power, and without it there really was no other nation to be feared in the Europe... So yes I think that Stalin would've, sooner or later, try to take over europe(including finland).

But for that winter war thing, we did kick some serious butt, but at the end we started to lose(lines breaking), by just the fact that soviets had so much more troops(three times more), but they finally understood that they'd lose so much troops(plus Stalin had doubts about Hitler attacking Soviet union) before they actually win us so they made that peace-offer... And we took it of course, didn't really have a choice. Besides there also was the continuation War... But this is getting reeaally offtopic.

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[Z22]

I just had a look at that shirt and couldn't believe it!
I don't know how it is in Japan, but here in germany it just wouldn't be possible to wear something like that. They'd probably kill you on the street.
Sega pushed it too far this time.

Oh, and hushypushy said:
"Hitler DID do a lot of good things for the German people"

Oh... really?
Which ones?

[industrian]

Originally Posted by Z22

I just had a look at that shirt and couldn't believe it!
I don't know how it is in Japan, but here in germany it just wouldn't be possible to wear something like that. They'd probably kill you on the street.

Before losing it, I once wore an Israeli Defence Forces t-shirt in Glasgow. The amount of looks I got was unbelievable.

Originally Posted by Z22

Oh, and hushypushy said:
"Hitler DID do a lot of good things for the German people"

Oh... really?
Which ones?

I believe that the industrial growth that Nazi Germany went through is only 2nd to what the Soviet Union went through during Stalin's Five Year Plans. Plus, the employment levels, taking a nation that was lacking self-respect and dignity and made it a world power, Hitler's regime produced scientists and technicians that (did what Germany is good at) revolutionised the world, Hitler's regime also was the first to notice that smoking was hazardous to your health as well. Plus the revolutionary architecture, construction of roads and highways.