Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice

Chinoz · July 19th, 2003

Quote:

NVIDIA-based Graphics Cards Will Have a Bug in Half-Life 2?
FSAA Cannot Be Enabled

The highly-anticipated Half-Life 2 game will have a major bug with current DirectX 9.0 hardware resulting in impossibility in enabling Full-Scene Anti-Aliasing, a popular feature that dramatically improves image quality in games. Apparently, there is a limitation in DirectX 9.0 and/or DirectX 9.0-compliant hardware that will not allow the function to be enabled on certain graphics cards if the workaround is not found.
According a Valve officials quoted in forums at HalfLife2.net web-site, there are problems with the way that current hardware implements FSAA. If you enable it, you will see a lot of artifacts on polygon boundaries due to the way that current graphics processors sample texture subjects with FSAA enabled.
Valve continued that this is a problem for any application that packs small textures into larger textures. The small textures will bleed into each other if you have multi-sample FSAA enabled.
Currently both leading graphics chips designers use multi-sampling or hybrid multi-sampling + super-sampling methods to for FSAA.
The developers of the legendary Half-Life game said that drivers are not likely to solve the problem, however, it still can be solved for graphics cards based on VPUs from ATI Technologies, such as RADEON 9500-, 9600-, 9700- and 9800-series. As for NVIDIA GeForce and GeForce FX-series, there are practically no chances to find a workaround, according to Valve.
Some industry sources indicated that the problem with such FSAA is a known one and is to be addressed in DirectX 9.1 and next-generation graphics processors with Pixel Shaders 3.0 and Vertex Shaders 3.0, such as ATI Technologies?s code-named R420 and NVIDIA?s code-named NV40 VPUs and derivatives. Both next-generation products will come later than the Half-Life 2 that is expected to be available by October.
You can find the thread on the matter with quotes from Valve officials
here.
Stay tuned with us because we are looking forward to bring you some comments from ATI Technologies and NVIDIA about the situation.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/d...718155730.html

P/s umm correct forum? Not too sure

didamangi · July 19th, 2003

Well i was going to post this earlier in the news forum, but hey what do i know??

Anyways this news makes me think twice about getting either the fx or the 9500 pro, guess i'll wait till the games came out.

Chinoz · July 19th, 2003

Well, the way things look now, nvidia seems to be flying down a slope at 212mph, whereas ati are steadily scaling mt everest. I'd get the 9500pro if i were you, but i dunno...many ppl around ngemu seem to have some past issues with ati

didamangi · July 19th, 2003

No, i mean they both has issue with hl2 fsaa ATM, it's just that ATI card can be fixed, and ATM nvidia can't be fixed.

I think i'll wait for the next gen card that fully support dx 9.1.

Chinoz · July 19th, 2003

Well, it's not 100%...and I think it's gonna cost you

Boltzmann · July 19th, 2003

Unlucky me... I'll get a GeForce FX 5600. And I'll not wait until a DX 9.1 card comes out (and waiting for the prices to drop goes without saying).

**Kane** · July 19th, 2003

Heh with nVidia's driver support, my guess is they'll just enable a pure super sampling mode in the drivers or make a specific optimisation for HL2 ('cheat' for all you nVidia haters out there)

Gamer1 · July 19th, 2003

ATI has the exact same problem that nVidia does, both can't anti-alias the 3d models right now.

But... ati has a possible fix for the issue. So, until ati does the fix, there is no such thing as a bad choice at the moment

**Razor Blade** · July 19th, 2003

Well still a while till the release of HL2 so I wouldnt be too worried. They will fix both cards. Either by patches or drivers.

I mean dont they always?

**n_w95482** · July 19th, 2003

Well at least the game will run on the cards, you just won't be able to enable AA on the cards right now.

Mr. Killjoy · July 20th, 2003

What's the use of FSAA anyway, just use higher res and you'll have good quality... ok you'll still see
the pixelisation but I prefer to play in 1024 w/out FSAA than 800 or 640 w/ it... Why? _framerate_

**fivefeet8** · July 20th, 2003

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy

What's the use of FSAA anyway, just use higher res and you'll have good quality... ok you'll still see
the pixelisation but I prefer to play in 1024 w/out FSAA than 800 or 640 w/ it... Why? _framerate_

Using Higher Resolutions works well with PC games, but not with PSx emulated games. They look jaggied even at 1600x1200.

I'm reserving my judgement until the game comes out, like Doom3 and other future upcoming games.

Mr. Killjoy · July 20th, 2003

>> Using Higher Resolutions works well with PC games, but not with PSx emulated games. They look jaggied even at 1600x1200.

Yup, I agree on the point, but we're talking about HL2, not emulation

**Raziel** · July 20th, 2003

IMHO, it's up to Valve to fix that, not nVidia or ATi, they still have some time before the release, all the fuss about dx9 being the problem is BS, why woud it work with every other games and not with HL 2 ? IMHO, the only problem is pure laziness and money cost.
Valve just lost 100 points in my "which company I like" list.

Mr. Killjoy · July 20th, 2003

Just don't use FSAA, anyway we'll can't use the higher details

RF · July 20th, 2003

Well there goes any thought of buying a nvidia card. Looks like another ATi in the future for me

Gamer1 · July 20th, 2003

>>all the fuss about dx9 being the problem is BS, why woud it work with every other games and not with HL 2 ?

okay... how many direct x 9 games are out there

the only game that i could think of is splinter cell. and yes, splinter cell is having problems with fsaa.

and why isn't doom3 affected? simple... it uses opengl.

**Raziel** · July 20th, 2003

GunMetal & Big Mutha Truckers (2 games I got with the card) are both DX9 games and run just fine with FSAA (ok, a bit slow :P)

**Demigod** · July 20th, 2003

As Valve stated, HL2 uses some new texturing methods that haven't been used before. With what I've read about the situation it's probable that such a texturing method would have problems with multi-sample anti-aliasing.

dogulation000 · July 20th, 2003

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demigod

As Valve stated, HL2 uses some new texturing methods that haven't been used before. With what I've read about the situation it's probable that such a texturing method would have problems with multi-sample anti-aliasing.

I see three solutions: Patches, Driver Updates, or turn off FSAA altogether. I mean, to me, it's not a big deal. I'll just turn off FSAA.

To me, it's a oversight on Valve's part, not ATI's or Nvidia's. They are the ones who should alleviate the problem. However, I'm sure that ATI and Nvidia might think of something to fix this.

Either that, or I just turn off FSAA. It's not a big deal to me.

July 19th, 2003	#2 (permalink)
didamangi Interplay sucks! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Indonesia Posts: 1,212	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice Well i was going to post this earlier in the news forum, but hey what do i know?? Anyways this news makes me think twice about getting either the fx or the 9500 pro, guess i'll wait till the games came out. __________________ Updated! PC rig : Athlon XP 2500+ Barton, Shuttle AN35[N] Ultra, 1.5GB DDRAM, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB, Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, Compromate Video TV Tuner, LG GDR8162B DVD-Rom, Liteon CDRW 52/24/52, Win XP Home SP2, Maxtor 6Y120L0 120GB. Consoles : Dreamcast (finally!!), PS2, Saturn, SNES Butuh bantuan menginstall ePSXe atau Project 64? Klik aja disini.

July 19th, 2003	#3 (permalink)
Chinoz ... Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Desa Park, Key Ell, Malaysia Posts: 2,301	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice Well, the way things look now, nvidia seems to be flying down a slope at 212mph, whereas ati are steadily scaling mt everest. I'd get the 9500pro if i were you, but i dunno...many ppl around ngemu seem to have some past issues with ati __________________ System specs P4 2.6c \| Abit AI7 \| Radeon 9800pro \| 1024mb kingston ddr400 \| 120gb seagate sata \| 40mb wd \| And all the minor bits and pieces 3dMark2001SE

July 19th, 2003	#4 (permalink)
didamangi Interplay sucks! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Indonesia Posts: 1,212	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice No, i mean they both has issue with hl2 fsaa ATM, it's just that ATI card can be fixed, and ATM nvidia can't be fixed. I think i'll wait for the next gen card that fully support dx 9.1. __________________ Updated! PC rig : Athlon XP 2500+ Barton, Shuttle AN35[N] Ultra, 1.5GB DDRAM, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB, Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, Compromate Video TV Tuner, LG GDR8162B DVD-Rom, Liteon CDRW 52/24/52, Win XP Home SP2, Maxtor 6Y120L0 120GB. Consoles : Dreamcast (finally!!), PS2, Saturn, SNES Butuh bantuan menginstall ePSXe atau Project 64? Klik aja disini.

July 19th, 2003	#5 (permalink)
Chinoz ... Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Desa Park, Key Ell, Malaysia Posts: 2,301	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice Well, it's not 100%...and I think it's gonna cost you __________________ System specs P4 2.6c \| Abit AI7 \| Radeon 9800pro \| 1024mb kingston ddr400 \| 120gb seagate sata \| 40mb wd \| And all the minor bits and pieces 3dMark2001SE

July 19th, 2003	#6 (permalink)
Boltzmann Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: São Paulo - Brazil Posts: 7,649	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice Unlucky me... I'll get a GeForce FX 5600. And I'll not wait until a DX 9.1 card comes out (and waiting for the prices to drop goes without saying). __________________ "The Improved Man will be a king over you. And give women their dowries as appointed." - Anders Sandberg The Hell Law says that Hell is reserved exclusively for them that believe in it. Further, the lowest Rung in Hell is reserved for them that believe in it on the supposition that they'll go there if they don't. - HBT; The Gospel According to Fred, 3:1 - The Principia Discordia BTW, Don't Forget to Desecrate your Quran.

July 19th, 2003	#7 (permalink)
Kane 邪魔ゎ指せない Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Gosport, England Posts: 26,255	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice Heh with nVidia's driver support, my guess is they'll just enable a pure super sampling mode in the drivers or make a specific optimisation for HL2 ('cheat' for all you nVidia haters out there) __________________ >Site Live< Pop over to my site for help with setting up PSX emulators. Help for the Final Fantasies and other RPGs avalaible Celes: (Desktop) Athlon 64 X2 4200+, 2Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, MSI K8N Platinum, GeForce 8800 GTS 320Mb, 500Gb RAID HDD, Vista Business Erika: (MCPC) Athlon XP 2400+, 1Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, geForce 6800 256Mb, 80Gb Hdd, XP 2005 MCE Kimiko: (Desktop 2) Athlon 64 3000+, 512Mb 400MHz DDR Ram, Asus K8V, geForce 6800 128Mb

July 19th, 2003	#8 (permalink)
Gamer1 Anti-Brand Loyalist Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Its too dark to tell... Posts: 3,237	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice ATI has the exact same problem that nVidia does, both can't anti-alias the 3d models right now. But... ati has a possible fix for the issue. So, until ati does the fix, there is no such thing as a bad choice at the moment __________________ Iris: (Proc:Intel Pentium4 2.8Ghz w/ HT UNLOCKED @ 15x200) (Mobo: Asus P4C800-E) (RAM: Corsair XMS 2x512MB DDR400) (HDD 1: Seagate 80GB, 8MB Buffer, 7200 RPM) (Disk Drive 1: Lite-On 16x DVD Burner 1673S) (GFX Card: Radeon 9800 All-In-Wonder Pro 128MB) (Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy) Morrigan: (Proc:AMD Athlon 2500+ @ 11x200) (Mobo: Asrock K7V88) (RAM: Corsair XMS 512MB DDR400) (HDD 1: Seagate 80GB, 8MB Buffer, 7200 RPM) (Disk Drive 1: NEC 16x DVD Burner 3200AG) (GFX Card: Radeon 920064MB) (Sound Card: Sound Blaster Live! 5.1)

July 19th, 2003	#9 (permalink)
Razor Blade Locked and Loaded Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I AM CANADIAN! Posts: 12,030	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice Well still a while till the release of HL2 so I wouldnt be too worried. They will fix both cards. Either by patches or drivers. I mean dont they always? __________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Core 2 Duo T7300 2.0 GHz ● NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS ● 2GB DDR2 RAM Hitachi 120GB HD ● Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive ● Windows Vista Home Premium ● Dell 2007WFP LCD ● Dell XPS M1330 Laptop ● 1TB Western Digital MyBook External HD ● Logitech Z10 Speakers ● PLAYSTATION 3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

July 19th, 2003	#10 (permalink)
n_w95482 Administrator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: California Posts: 4,684	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice Well at least the game will run on the cards, you just won't be able to enable AA on the cards right now.

July 20th, 2003	#11 (permalink)
Mr. Killjoy [Suggest a custom title] Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Somewhere I don't belong (La Rochelle, France) Posts: 7,753	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice What's the use of FSAA anyway, just use higher res and you'll have good quality... ok you'll still see the pixelisation but I prefer to play in 1024 w/out FSAA than 800 or 640 w/ it... Why? _framerate_ __________________ Leader of "The Pessimists' Club" CPU: Core 2 Q6600@3GHz - RAM: 2GB DDR2 (Corsair PC6400) VGA: GF8800GTS 512MB OC - Mobo: Gigabyte EP35C-DS3R - PSU: Antec Trio 650w 24Mb/1Mb ADSL - WindowsXP-Pro SP2 --------------------------------------------- All ePSXe plugins up-to-date http://mrkilljoy.deviantart.com/

July 20th, 2003	#13 (permalink)
Mr. Killjoy [Suggest a custom title] Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Somewhere I don't belong (La Rochelle, France) Posts: 7,753	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice >> Using Higher Resolutions works well with PC games, but not with PSx emulated games. They look jaggied even at 1600x1200. Yup, I agree on the point, but we're talking about HL2, not emulation __________________ Leader of "The Pessimists' Club" CPU: Core 2 Q6600@3GHz - RAM: 2GB DDR2 (Corsair PC6400) VGA: GF8800GTS 512MB OC - Mobo: Gigabyte EP35C-DS3R - PSU: Antec Trio 650w 24Mb/1Mb ADSL - WindowsXP-Pro SP2 --------------------------------------------- All ePSXe plugins up-to-date http://mrkilljoy.deviantart.com/

July 20th, 2003	#14 (permalink)
Raziel Beta Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Nantes, France Posts: 6,150	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice IMHO, it's up to Valve to fix that, not nVidia or ATi, they still have some time before the release, all the fuss about dx9 being the problem is BS, why woud it work with every other games and not with HL 2 ? IMHO, the only problem is pure laziness and money cost. Valve just lost 100 points in my "which company I like" list. __________________ System Specs: OS: Windows Vista Ultimate x64 Edition CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 @4GHz Video Card: MSI GeForce 8800 GTX Motherboard: ASUS Maximus Formula SE RAM: 4GB OCZ XMS2 PC6400 Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS

July 20th, 2003	#15 (permalink)
Mr. Killjoy [Suggest a custom title] Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Somewhere I don't belong (La Rochelle, France) Posts: 7,753	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice Just don't use FSAA, anyway we'll can't use the higher details __________________ Leader of "The Pessimists' Club" CPU: Core 2 Q6600@3GHz - RAM: 2GB DDR2 (Corsair PC6400) VGA: GF8800GTS 512MB OC - Mobo: Gigabyte EP35C-DS3R - PSU: Antec Trio 650w 24Mb/1Mb ADSL - WindowsXP-Pro SP2 --------------------------------------------- All ePSXe plugins up-to-date http://mrkilljoy.deviantart.com/

July 20th, 2003	#16 (permalink)
RF Canadian Spaceman Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 8,594	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice Well there goes any thought of buying a nvidia card. Looks like another ATi in the future for me __________________

July 20th, 2003	#17 (permalink)
Gamer1 Anti-Brand Loyalist Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Its too dark to tell... Posts: 3,237	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice >>all the fuss about dx9 being the problem is BS, why woud it work with every other games and not with HL 2 ? okay... how many direct x 9 games are out there the only game that i could think of is splinter cell. and yes, splinter cell is having problems with fsaa. and why isn't doom3 affected? simple... it uses opengl. __________________ Iris: (Proc:Intel Pentium4 2.8Ghz w/ HT UNLOCKED @ 15x200) (Mobo: Asus P4C800-E) (RAM: Corsair XMS 2x512MB DDR400) (HDD 1: Seagate 80GB, 8MB Buffer, 7200 RPM) (Disk Drive 1: Lite-On 16x DVD Burner 1673S) (GFX Card: Radeon 9800 All-In-Wonder Pro 128MB) (Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy) Morrigan: (Proc:AMD Athlon 2500+ @ 11x200) (Mobo: Asrock K7V88) (RAM: Corsair XMS 512MB DDR400) (HDD 1: Seagate 80GB, 8MB Buffer, 7200 RPM) (Disk Drive 1: NEC 16x DVD Burner 3200AG) (GFX Card: Radeon 920064MB) (Sound Card: Sound Blaster Live! 5.1)

July 20th, 2003	#18 (permalink)
Raziel Beta Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Nantes, France Posts: 6,150	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice GunMetal & Big Mutha Truckers (2 games I got with the card) are both DX9 games and run just fine with FSAA (ok, a bit slow :P) __________________ System Specs: OS: Windows Vista Ultimate x64 Edition CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 @4GHz Video Card: MSI GeForce 8800 GTX Motherboard: ASUS Maximus Formula SE RAM: 4GB OCZ XMS2 PC6400 Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS

July 20th, 2003	#19 (permalink)
Demigod これはバタスです Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,811	Re: Nvidia? Tsk tsk bad choice As Valve stated, HL2 uses some new texturing methods that haven't been used before. With what I've read about the situation it's probable that such a texturing method would have problems with multi-sample anti-aliasing. __________________ CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 @ 2.66 Ghz (Yorkfield) Mobo: Intel DX48BT2 Memory: 2048 MB PC10600 DDR3 Videocard: PNY Geforce 9800 GX2 PCIe w/ 1024 MB GDDR3 Soundcard: On-board SigmaTel High Definition Audio Hard drive: 300 MB Maxtor & 1 TB Hitachi Optical drive: LG GGW-H20L (2x BD-R DL) OS: Microsoft Windows Vista (32-bit)

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