What "new ground" should Game Genres' break to stay interesting?

[Paratech]

This is really based off of the FPS thread that discusses how "newer" FPS games aren't as fun or interesting as the old ones. I wanted to expand that thought and turn it around to what do gamers want in each genre?

I like Bioshock a lot even though I have difficulty staying interested in playing the game. My lack of interest has to do with the fact that there are areas where I seem to need to do things I don't quite understand, and after progressing through the game, I find myself ill prepared to deal with a situation, but unable to go back and get what I need to progress further.

I like the story, the atmosphere, and the weapons in Bioshock and think it has progressed nicely from Doom, but I'll admit that Doom is easier to jump into and more addictive.

Please feel free to tackle other genres and what you like/don't like about them. I'll post about other "classic" vs "modern" games of different genres later, but I just wanted to get the ball rolling...

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[neoxalucard]

Originally Posted by Paratech

This is really based off of the FPS thread that discusses how "newer" FPS games aren't as fun or interesting as the old ones. I wanted to expand that thought and turn it around to what do gamers want in each genre?

I like Bioshock a lot even though I have difficulty staying interested in playing the game. My lack of interest has to do with the fact that there are areas where I seem to need to do things I don't quite understand, and after progressing through the game, I find myself ill prepared to deal with a situation, but unable to go back and get what I need to progress further.

I like the story, the atmosphere, and the weapons in Bioshock and think it has progressed nicely from Doom, but I'll admit that Doom is easier to jump into and more addictive.

Please feel free to tackle other genres and what you like/don't like about them. I'll post about other "classic" vs "modern" games of different genres later, but I just wanted to get the ball rolling...

I think the real problem is most people are jaded. Most of us been playing games for most of our lives, it's hard not to see things starting to repeat.

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[strike105x]

ATM the only thing that comes to mind is regarding the characters/models, although now the characters are more "advance" with expressions etc, the old games made them have more personality even if they didnt had a voice or no lips. Also i remember in Red Faction when you atached remote control mines to people they'd run screaming all over the screen it was loads of fun (i'm getting a bang of lols just remembering that).

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[Xblade]

Originally Posted by strike105x

ATM the only thing that comes to mind is regarding the characters/models, although now the characters are more "advance" with expressions etc, the old games made them have more personality even if they didnt had a voice or no lips. Also i remember in Red Faction when you atached remote control mines to people they'd run screaming all over the screen it was loads of fun (i'm getting a bang of lols just remembering that).

I think your now just embracing the fanboy..........shall I stab it now?

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Originally Posted by Sonic2036

the PS3 needs to be a little more slimer??? the way I see it , its as big as a laptop lol
i remember psp slime was more slimey

V
l

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[makotech222]

I've been dying for a game sorta built like runescape, but features a progressive town that the community would build via -economy/combat skills. You would help build buildings, learn new technology, conquer other towns etc in a massive progressive online game. Wouldnt that be cool. (never gonna happen)

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[Spyhop]

I don't think the problem is a lack of game innovation. The problem is that people aren't looking for the innovative games. There's plenty of under-the-radar games that rocked that no one knows about, because they were too different and didn't get any attention.

I will often look at ALL game releases in a year and pick out ones that look interesting that I've never heard of. I play a lot of great games doing that.

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[neoxalucard]

Originally Posted by Spyhop

I don't think the problem is a lack of game innovation. The problem is that people aren't looking for the innovative games. There's plenty of under-the-radar games that rocked that no one knows about, because they were too different and didn't get any attention.

I will often look at ALL game releases in a year and pick out ones that look interesting that I've never heard of. I play a lot of great games doing that.

I'm right there with ya. Cave Story and Cloud are a couple of my all time faves, but that's more of the inde stuff. Aside from that I play just about anything I can get my hands on, It doesn't have to have a review on IGN before I play it.

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[strike105x]

Originally Posted by Xblade

I think your now just embracing the fanboy..........shall I stab it now?

Sory i fail to see the fanboyism in my post, so you stabing it is as valid as Daffy duck being a shemale.

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[taumpytears]

i hear ya guys. and i'm on both sides. i expect some better games from this generation before i get a ps3 or a wii (i wouldn't get a 360). AND i believe that the kids these days are skipping the obscure creative stuff and going straight for the boxing gloves or the assault rifle.

i wanna see psychonauts 2 dammit!

and i want gt5 not to suck like prologue does.

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Last edited by taumpytears; June 11th, 2009 at 06:30.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[snickothemule]

I've said it before, but I think that the whole silent hero angle has been overused and continues to alienate the player from being able to associate themselves with the character they are controlling. Sure the idea is to have us go through the 'emotions' as we view the NPC actions, but what made many games of the past great was the showing of the main hero's actions and how he copes with oncoming challenges. Duke Nukem would never have gained popularity if he didn't deliver square jawed, barrel chested, beer swelling one liners as he crushed the enemies into the dust, nor would we have any care in the world for Ethan Thomas in the Condemned games, as having these characters as the shining star gives us the opportunity to gravitate towards them and to associate ourselves with them. The only game that can really get the silent hero trick right is the Half Life series, or games like System Shock 2, Bioshock and Deus Ex. Instead today we are expected to give a damn about a guy or gal that never opens their mouths, but only their submachine gun fire.

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[neoxalucard]

Originally Posted by snickothemule

I've said it before, but I think that the whole silent hero angle has been overused and continues to alienate the player from being able to associate themselves with the character they are controlling. Sure the idea is to have us go through the 'emotions' as we view the NPC actions, but what made many games of the past great was the showing of the main hero's actions and how he copes with oncoming challenges. Duke Nukem would never have gained popularity if he didn't deliver square jawed, barrel chested, beer swelling one liners as he crushed the enemies into the dust, nor would we have any care in the world for Ethan Thomas in the Condemned games, as having these characters as the shining star gives us the opportunity to gravitate towards them and to associate ourselves with them. The only game that can really get the silent hero trick right is the Half Life series, or games like System Shock 2, Bioshock and Deus Ex. Instead today we are expected to give a damn about a guy or gal that never opens their mouths, but only their submachine gun fire.

I see where you're coming from, Dragon Quest 8, Oblivion, and the like were hard to sit through a times b/c people were always saying stuff like "I can tell how you feel by the look on you're face". I just wanted to scream.

But on the other hand if you're Char. is voiced and you don't have that much freedom then you're playing "as" Marcus Phoenix or Master Chief and it again puts a degree of separation between you and the story.

I think games like MassEffect have a pretty good formula. I would like even more choices though, not just good or bad.

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[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Personally I think Innovation and New Ground that all new games are meant to have IS what the problem is with the current games is.

Everything is a flop either because it tries something new and fails or it copies the last big thing and tries to achieve the same greatness and as that and fails. For the biggest current example of someone just blatantly trying to copy another companie's hit look at GRID...and then look at the new NFS....Instead of sticking to the formula that made them great companies are trying to improve by adopting someone else's approach that made it big...and they end up failing and overstaturating the genre with the same crap.

I don't think we need something new and Innovative, what we need is something that goes back to the basics but with new graphics. For instance NFS started with exotics and tracks in beautifull locations and everyone copied them and NFS itself oversaturated it's genre...then came the new and fresh Underground and the even better Underground 2 and the racing genre took off again and everyone followed them and that genre got stale and oversaturated. Now Codemasters, who have stuck to their same basic formula over and over again have brought us GRID but they modernised their car line up a little...and now everyone is probably gonna think that professional circuit racing is the next best thing well the guys behind NFS already are...
However what I would kill for (or at least pay 2 maybe even 3 times the price of an average game for) is just a simple game with say 40 of the worlds fastest exotics and 20 tracks tracks located in the alps and around europe but that looks just as good, or even better than Grid.

What we need is a back to the basics approach. Shelve the overdone WW theme for now and bring us back the crazy zany fast paced arena shooters, BFGs, rocket packs, teleporters, cain guns.
Forget the overdone horror and realism FPS theme and just give us a plain detective story alla Max Payne, or an entirely fictional shooter located in a fictional world where instead of having to find out what happened we just need to find and pump some big monstrosity full of lead, also bring back the puzzles and acrobatics from Tomb Raider.
There's also almost entirely forgotten and abandoned genres we need back, Beat-em-ups brought back to life in 2.5D, Flight Sims, propper Platformers (which the PC had completely lost since the DOS and Win95 days of Commander Keen till Bionic Commando Rearmed showed up), epic Point and Click Adventures etc.

Games need their simplicity their crazyness, their FUN back, screw realism and just go nuts...Games these days seem to have forgotten those elements and are concentrated on being complicated and intricate to try and be good, but that's the wrong approach, they are sucking the fun out of the industry.
I am not saying it's wrong to Innovate, just there comes a point where you can't innovate on the same product anymore and you need to forget everything and start from scratch again.




In short the Industry needs to forget realism and bring simple fun back, well that and we need Freelancer 2.

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Last edited by SCHUMI_4EVER; June 11th, 2009 at 14:57..

[Matis]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI_4EVER

epic Point and Click Adventures etc.

Monkey Island HD and Tales of Monkey Island, hell yeah! If only LucasArts were to go ahead and make a Grim Fandango 2 or a similar game as well...

Originally Posted by SCHUMI_4EVER

I am not saying it's wrong to Innovate, just there comes a point where you can't innovate on the same product anymore and you need to forget everything and start from scratch again.

One of the main reasons I like Sting as a developer. They pick simple formulas, such as RPG and Dating Sims, mix them together and throw in a twist of their own. Knights in the Nightmare is an example of innoation. Mixing strategy with RPG, with a bullet-hell shooter AND Connect-Four? Somehow, it works. And damned well, should I say.


Oh, and Devil May Cry, Sengoku Basara and Dynasty Warriors are basically the beat 'em ups of today, so you can't go around saying that they are dead. The premise is basically the same. Go from A to B, kick the hell out of everyone and proceed.

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[SCHUMI_4EVER]

ok...well then aside from the occasional DMC, beat'em ups are dead to most english PC users seeing as the other two titles are foreign language titles.

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[Matis]

Actually, Dynasty Warriors 4 Hyper, Dynasty Warriors 6, Warriors Orochi and Samurai Warriors 2 are available in English for PC.

But yes, other than the ones I mentioned, I can't think of many other games falling in the beat 'em up category(God Hand, Chaos Legion, Onimusha...and there was this one PS2 game in which you were a brute with a huge sword. I think it started with "B")

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[LensLarque]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI_4EVER

There's also almost entirely forgotten and abandoned genres we need back, Beat-em-ups brought back to life in 2.5D, Flight Sims, propper Platformers (which the PC had completely lost since the DOS and Win95 days of Commander Keen till Bionic Commando Rearmed showed up), epic Point and Click Adventures etc.

Games need their simplicity their crazyness, their FUN back, screw realism and just go nuts...Games these days seem to have forgotten those elements and are concentrated on being complicated and intricate to try and be good, but that's the wrong approach, they are sucking the fun out of the industry.
I am not saying it's wrong to Innovate, just there comes a point where you can't innovate on the same product anymore and you need to forget everything and start from scratch again.

In short the Industry needs to forget realism and bring simple fun back, well that and we need Freelancer 2.

What ? You're asking the industry to drop the modern way of making video games ?:

1. fear the market
2. make a market survey
3. trust the figures and start the project on that basis
4. forget creativity
5. ????
6. PROFIT !


Anyway, me totally agrees with your post.

PS: About beat'em ups it's really funny to see that 17 years later, no other game in the genre could beat the freakin' godly awesomeness of Streets of Rage II.

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[gamefreak94]

My only complain is on FPS games. They need:

- More freedom of movement (nowhere is this best found then in Rockstar games)
- More....unique missions like ones involving taking control of a tank, a helicopter, or an aircraft. IMO, this is one reason why Crysis was so great, it gave players a break from the classic "on-foot with an assault rifle" setting.
- Less WW and WWII style setting please.
- Wider variety of guns and ammunition.

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[snickothemule]

The new Halo: ODST is reported to be more sandbox style ala GTA in that the big open world is free to explore. If you need to go into a specific part of the map, pull up the world map, select the area you need to go to and the cities AI construct will guide you there using the citys sign boards to guide you there (like in the trailer). It sounds like a great concept, but as to how well it pulls it off in relation to story progression is yet to be seen, but by all accounts it sounds pretty nifty.

*waits for the 'halo sucks' bandwagon to come rolling in*

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