Because Bioshock protection was a WINNER. Right?

[Thanakil]

I do think the stupid copy protection comes from the publisher, I think that it was confirmed to be the case with Bioshock. The game was already lucky to be "alive" since no-one wanted to take the risk and let it be develop, so it wasn't that surprising to see the publisher take no risk and put some crappy protection on it, to try and be "safe". Even if in the end they hindered the sales more than anything with it.

[cottonvibes]

Originally Posted by Thanakil

I do think the stupid copy protection comes from the publisher, I think that it was confirmed to be the case with Bioshock. The game was already lucky to be "alive" since no-one wanted to take the risk and let it be develop, so it wasn't that surprising to see the publisher take no risk and put some crappy protection on it, to try and be "safe". Even if in the end they hindered the sales more than anything with it.

so why do you keep saying they "hindered the sales" by including copyright protection?

i believe someone mentioned that 1 game had a copyprotection that froze the PC if people tried to pirate it, and their message board was flooded with problems from piraters, so the real users didn't buy the games because they thought it was glitchy...

but i don't really see any other ways that copy protection can hinder the sales.

except for whats happening now with teh "every 10 days must re-register" or w/e.

but b4 this, its usually just a 1 time thing, which should really prevent sales...

[Thanakil]

I was saying that "they hindered" the sales because :
1) the "they" is very general, including both developers who actually choose to include protections, or publishers who force it on it.
2) It hinders the sales because a lot of people decide to not buy the game, or go as far as canceling preorders.
If you go on the forum of Mass Effect, you can see it being flooded with people who actually preordered the game a while ago, but who now cancel it because of the protection.

Publishers usually see protection as being a way to stop piracy, but customers would rather not get f***** up by the protection.

Problems with protection is that sometime it tries to protect... Too frikin much.
Starforce was the best example of this, trying to protect stuff out of the damn game. It was *****ing up computers left and right, even other game developers were complaining about it, clearly saying that SF was pure failure.

You had various people who computers had problems because SF corrupted various stuff, and that was people who bought the game legally.

Basically, people shouldn't be treated as criminals and receive the cons from over-protection. People haven't bought the game that ALREADY we know that they're treating everybody as criminals, putting some crazy protection on the game, even if it means taht the only person who really pay the price (both of the game, and of the protection)...

Is the guy who pay and buy it.

Because of that, a lot of people decide not to buy the game.
Which, in turns, hinder the sales. Hindering the sales meaning that they're being reduced/affected in a negative way, because of all the bad publicity coming from it.
It's already been proven anyway that protection on game is useless.
Either the player will want to buy the game, and do it.
Either he won't want to buy the game, and get a crack. With the exception of like a few, very few games, they all got cracked easily. The few exception got cracked too, they just took slightly more time.

So putting a protection is just wasting money, and forcing people to keep the DVD in their drives.
(or now : forcing people to activate the game online)
Games without protection don't sell any less. That's been proven before, again and again.

[Leiw]

that's why I stopped playing computer games completely, I don't even bother to download

copy protections destroying my hardware and infesting my computer with DRM = no thanks

[Exodus]

It's going to get to the point where essential files will be hosted on some publisher server that you have to connect to (even in single player), and an MMO scheme will be used where you have to pay a monthly fee and login.

Luckily, I think publishers are mostly concerned with piracy for the first couple weeks of a games' release. If they quit being *******s, maybe they'll remove piracy checks after a month or two. If the game is worth (key word: "worth") playing, a lot of people can't tolerate "the wait" to play a new game, so they'll buy it if it'll get them past piracy garbage.

[refraction]

Originally Posted by Exodus

It's going to get to the point where essential files will be hosted on some publisher server that you have to connect to (even in single player), and an MMO scheme will be used where you have to pay a monthly fee and login.

Luckily, I think publishers are mostly concerned with piracy for the first couple weeks of a games' release. If they quit being *******s, maybe they'll remove piracy checks after a month or two. If the game is worth (key word: "worth") playing, a lot of people can't tolerate "the wait" to play a new game, so they'll buy it if it'll get them past piracy garbage.

thats quite true, but as posted previously the activation servers could go down or get overwhealmed, making those who paid for a legitimate copy very annoyed.

On the other hand though, i dont think it will take as long as bioshock did to crack. The online activation method is well known now with the release groups, so they should be able to keep the time span down between release and warez. If essential files are required for download, no doubt they will download them pre to the scene release and stick them on the dvd image.

I hate to sound pro-piracy here for obvious reasons, but silly amounts of protection like that really gets on my goat, you CANT stop pirates, it will NEVER happen, ever. All you can do is slow them down, but once a protection method is known, removing it is like a walk in the park. The worst part about it is those who spend good money on a legitimate copy have to suffer the consequences.

What about those who dont have the internet on their computers? does that mean if you dont have the internet (which i believe many people still dont, some just have a gaming machine not on the web) you arent allowed to play the game? thats just ridiculous.

[Exodus]

Originally Posted by refraction

What about those who dont have the internet on their computers? does that mean if you dont have the internet (which i believe many people still dont, some just have a gaming machine not on the web) you arent allowed to play the game? thats just ridiculous.

Agreed. That's the one direction they're taking that I don't like. Internet connection should NOT be required to play single player games. To me, this is the biggest flaw in their plan as they alienate legitimate purchasers who don't have internet. These are the people that would actually NEED to pirate. Funny how they create a need for piracy by trying to prevent it.

[StriderVM]

If I remember correctly, it took about two months to Bioshock get cracked..... But you didn't hear that from me.....

About the DRM scheme. Ouch. It's like, pay for my game. And then the game will force you to return to me and show the receipt and the evidence that you haven't pirated it yet. Another case of pointing to every one who paid for their product a pirate.

.... And please, how many people here actually buy the game AND THEN put the game into a CD/DVD writer to give or sell to friends? Yeessh, they just download it. Cracked already..... I think the developers are missing the point.

Last thing, actually there are some very unique exceptions. Some games are STILL aren't cracked yet.

[Noja87]

Heh. In 3 days this will be cracked.

[Thanakil]

Originally Posted by StriderVM

If I remember correctly, it took about two months to Bioshock get cracked..... But you didn't hear that from me.....

Nah Bioshock never took that long to be cracked...
I *THINK* the splinter cell game with StarForce may have taken about that long to crack, but Bioshock really wasn't that long... I remember hearing how the protection ended up being a big deal for nothing, since it didn't take that long to crack. Making all the bad publicity even more of a slap in the face for Bioshock, since it was all for nothing.

[refraction]

actually the case of Bioshock, it wasnt any of the scene groups who did it, a single guy with an alias managed to crack it after a few weeks, then it started appearing on torrent sites. Following that, release groups (fairlight, LOLcats etc) took that crack and used it as if it was their own, the biggest giveaway being they still missed some of the securom triggers

[Exodus]

Originally Posted by StriderVM

.... And please, how many people here actually buy the game AND THEN put the game into a CD/DVD writer to give or sell to friends? Yeessh, they just download it. Cracked already..... I think the developers are missing the point.

Maybe they have something against LAN parties. But don't blame the developers - it's the publishers at work. Granted, dev's are probably not against protection since they want money, but the type of protection is up to the publisher.

[makotech222]

it took about 2 weeks, i remember. i was about to buy bioshock because i really wanted to play it, but i ended up waiting... lol

[Exodus]

But you almost bought it, right?
...

[jonc2006]

Originally Posted by refraction

thats quite true, but as posted previously the activation servers could go down or get overwhealmed, making those who paid for a legitimate copy very annoyed.

On the other hand though, i dont think it will take as long as bioshock did to crack. The online activation method is well known now with the release groups, so they should be able to keep the time span down between release and warez. If essential files are required for download, no doubt they will download them pre to the scene release and stick them on the dvd image.

I hate to sound pro-piracy here for obvious reasons, but silly amounts of protection like that really gets on my goat, you CANT stop pirates, it will NEVER happen, ever. All you can do is slow them down, but once a protection method is known, removing it is like a walk in the park. The worst part about it is those who spend good money on a legitimate copy have to suffer the consequences.

What about those who dont have the internet on their computers? does that mean if you dont have the internet (which i believe many people still dont, some just have a gaming machine not on the web) you arent allowed to play the game? thats just ridiculous.

yeah man i would say now that most people who pirate pc games do it not because they dont have pay for it, but because they dont have to put up with this crap. its these sort of things that make it look like they are just begging for their customers to start pirating their games and im not really backing the pirate community here either, but what publishers are doing nowadays to their legitimate customers is just as bad, if not worse. the more they do this the more customers they are going to lose and the more they will regret ever attempting to enforce this kind of a counter measure once they see their sales starting to drop off the face of the earth.

[makotech222]

i always thought of piracy as being a hassle, not the other way around. usually when u pirate, you gotta go through all the cracking, and the patches, etc etc. buying it makes it so much easier usually.

[Thanakil]

Originally Posted by makotech222

i always thought of piracy as being a hassle, not the other way around. usually when u pirate, you gotta go through all the cracking, and the patches, etc etc. buying it makes it so much easier usually.

With normal games.
Not with games that have this kind protection. This kind of protection is more of a hassle than anything else.

[jonc2006]

Originally Posted by makotech222

i always thought of piracy as being a hassle, not the other way around. usually when u pirate, you gotta go through all the cracking, and the patches, etc etc. buying it makes it so much easier usually.

not anymore.

[Hard core Rikki]

DRM = control = pr1s0n
See how much control they want.

DRM breakers = liberators (funnily enough)

PS: dont confuse "they" with ONLY game companies. The main goal is to ultimately strip away all choice from everyone. Pretty scary actually, if you think of what 2012 will look like for gamers and computer lovers. Mandatory retinal scans for online playing and patch retrieval ?

These software-base systems are at least bypassable. How long till unbreakable, fully TC-enabled authentication hardware replaces these imperfect DRMs as the principal licencing enforncement method ?

[snickothemule]

What really grinds my gears is that you have to have an internet connection. I'm on dial-up (because I'm a tight-arse) and this just plain smells. It's all ready hard enough to reinstall HL2, let alone this malarkey.