Did Epic steal user-created map, then ban creator for complaining ?

[Hard core Rikki]

Digg story (for comments)

Before the original thread linked in the digg story is modified in pure 1984 retroerasure style, here's a quote.

Originally Posted by Metalmurphy??

This happened Today, and I'm still shocked by it.
I'm sure many of you already seen the new UT3 360 trailer, but what most of you don't know is that one of the maps shown there ( DM-ArcticShipment ) is actually a user created map done by a member that goes by EpicJon on the Epic Forums.

The map, while not being exactly the same, is a blatant rip off, it's a cargo boat, in the middle of the Artic ocean, with snow falling and with icebergs on the background. When EpicJon posted about his discontent in the Epic Forums he got banned and his thread deleted.

You guys can see the map in action in this trailer:
Gametrailers.com - Unreal Tournament III - Midway Gamers' Day 08: Xbox 360 Trailer HD

here is a shot of the user created one:

And the thread for the map on Epic Forums:

http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=605011&page=10

I wonder if this is what Epic means by getting MODs on the 360 version, stealing them from users and putting them on XBL without any notification. While they're most likely allowed to do that legally it's a very low blow for the modding community.

PS: does anyone know if the Metalmurphy in the thread the same as 'ours' ?

[refraction]

well technically they didnt "steal" it. Im pretty sure any user agreement says any mods made with their software is property of epic games and not the user, despite them putting in the hard work. While this stops the user selling it, it doesnt stop Epic taking it for themselves. Infact it allows them to do as they wish.

But why get pissed off at it? id love to see something id made get in to a game.

[emwearz]

But why get pissed off at it? id love to see something id made get in to a game.

I would at least want credit for it though. He was also unbanned.

[Hard core Rikki]

He was also unbanned.

damage control. they best give credit now, plus a few bills, if his content is gonna make it for the next UT hit.

[emwearz]

From another thread/forum

EpicJon's Arctic Ship





Epic Games Arctic Ship






They dont look very similar, there bridges are totally different, and its not like this guy is the first person to come up with a ship in the arctic, if you ask me his having a sook for nothing, his acting like they took his map and said they made it.

I do however think the mod map looks a lot better then the Epic one.

He was banned for spamming the forums apparently. (Google search it pages and pages of stuff on this issue).

[refraction]

hmm, indeed, they look nothing like each other, the only simularity i can see, is they are both boats.

zomg lets sue the Navy for copying Brittany Ferries cos they made a boat!

some people obviously have nothing better to do

[Ramadear]

They look nothing alike, I don't see the big deal. The only thing in common is a boat in the middle of the ocean.

[Squall-Leonhart]

i'll solve this problem once and for all.

*pulls the plug*

[Thanakil]

Originally Posted by emwearz

They dont look very similar, there bridges are totally different, and its not like this guy is the first person to come up with a ship in the arctic, if you ask me his having a sook for nothing, his acting like they took his map and said they made it.

Exactly what I was thinking =/.

He's getting his panties in a bunch over something very small, maybe he just wants his 5 minutes of fame.

[Hard core Rikki]

Pretty damn too similar for all that to be coincidences. Epic's vicepresident himself stepped in to have the fella unbanned and 'talked with' (ppf, only after it hit digg. pretty sorry attitudes. "as long as its not widely known, lets screw every modder"). Its the ripoff thing that triggered this situation, not the ban or complaining themselves, so its like like someone wanted 5 mins of fame.

[Metalmurphy]

I'm famous

It was all a big coincidence btw, Mark Reign him self stepped in, unbanned and undeleted the thread that shouldn't have been deleted.


Oh and the bridges are very alike actually emwearz


Oh and before you ask, my ban on GAF was unrelated to this issue

[Cheesus]

They probably got the concept from this guy's map. If I were him I'd be proud.

...but I'm not, so I really couldn't care less.

[Hard core Rikki]

Proud of what? being ripped off andhave his name mentioned nowhere would be pretty sad, actually. Creditting is important, moreso with such highprofile games hitting the market ( $$$ )

What's next? Artists paying companies to be allowed the "honor" to have their works featured in blockbuster games ? Pretty skewed concepts here...

[Thanakil]

You're comparing apples and oranges there tho.
Arists work is copyrighted and belongs to them. They make it, from scratch, alone. If they make in a group, they decide how it's shared. But since they do it with stuff that THEY own, it belongs to them.
That guy works was not, it belonged to Epic, if people don't want to make maps that belong to Epic they're free to mod other games. He used Epic tools and agreed that anything he makes belongs to them.


Anyway, the "concept" is the same (a boat in the middle of snows and whatever) but the actual map is different.
You don't sue or complain (or anything) because of such a vague concept.
The genre is the same, but the actual symphony is different. Two rock songs, different lyrics, different partitions.

[Hard core Rikki]

A more accurate artistic compare would be someone making 'homemade-style photocopies' or tracing pics already existing, then claiming full credit for all aspects of the work (while the effort spent on the copycatting is nothing more than a technicality, to claim full ownership of the work and the inspiration of it). Creditting is common practice, so why were they so keen on giving none ? (even if no $$ changed hands)

[Thanakil]

They didn't did something that big.
The concept is the same, but again, the maps are actually different.

They're not tracing the picture if they use a different map layout.

Sure the concept is VERY similar, enough to make us think "did they or did they not copy the "boat in snow" idea" but something for sure, they did not copycat the whole map.

The layout is different, that much can be seen if you observe the pictures.
They may have used his map as inspiration, and he may deserve a credit for that.

But he's whining way too hard (and spamming a forum doesn't help your case) and they did not "steal" his map like he's claiming, since they're using a different layout.

Visually it's highly similar, internally there's many differences.

And the visual part could have been Epic idea completely. That we don't know, maybe it came from someone inside Epic and it has no connection to that guy's map. Maybe they did inspire from it for the visual part.

If they did use his map as inspiration, then credit should be given. And maybe it's planned.
But something for sure, they did not "steal" or "completely copy" his map. There's enough difference in the actual layout for that.

[Spyhop]

Same idea. Totally different map. I'm going to err on the side of Epic. They've proven themselves to be a pretty cool developer when it comes to how they treat their fans. I can't see them intentionally ripping someone off. If the guy got banned from their forum I'll bet he was being a douche.

[Metalmurphy]

The problem was solely that a mod banned him and deleted his threads, that totally rose all suspicions. They should have just let the threads opened till Mark Reign explained everything.