About the sub-channel function...

RedJacket · March 17th, 2002

does anyone or which game take advantage of this new function yet..?
And..if i just disabled this ...does it mean the cd-rom just function like before in epsxe1.5..? Or just leave it by default doesn't hurt?

Sorry for these question coz it's kinda hard undestanding what actually this function is and further explaination is appreciated

Finally..is this sub-channel thing only supported in the coming pete CD-Rom plug-in or depends on cd-rom?

Thanks in advance for any reply..

btw..really expect tekken 2 going to be playable...

average_guy · March 17th, 2002

what is sub-channel thing?

**Kane** · March 17th, 2002

THe Sub channel support added in ePSXe 1.5.1 and Pete's 1.10 CDR plugin. This is for copy protected games, so that ppf patches are no longer nessacary.
If you leave it disabled, it will function as before.
It is only supported by certain CD Rom drives, with Pete's or the Internal plugin

**Betamax** · March 17th, 2002

In a nutshell copy protected game support. However you need a cd-rom that can accurately read sub channel info (only a few can). The workaround for this is that this data can be output to a file and the emu can attempt to use this file instead of reading from the cd if your drive doesn not support it.

A more though description is in the readme from pete's new cd plugin. He can describe it better than I can.

Carmofin · March 17th, 2002

i see...
so the question is, where to get those files, since you cant make them yourself?

Goku7 · March 17th, 2002

So, which drives do have subchannel support? For example, I have an Actima 52x CD-ROM. Does that have subchannel support?

**Betamax** · March 17th, 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Goku7
So, which drives do have subchannel support? For example, I have an Actima 52x CD-ROM. Does that have subchannel support?

A list is being compiled here

RedJacket · March 17th, 2002

Not mean to offend...but i think the sub-channel function makes configuration a bit harder and complicated...

like myself..getting confused at first when i got epsxe 1.51 and see those enable sub-channel support, enable sub-channel support from cd-rom and enable sub-channel caching to disk...

As the perfomance really vary depends on which game and i'm having a hard time to understand what does it really mean..it's somehow much user-unfriendly a bit..

And BetaMax...say..how would i actually know my cd-rom is really being supported?

**Betamax** · March 17th, 2002

er try it?

Just check the enable sub channel support and read from cd. Throw a copy protected original in and see if it works. If it crashes then your out of luck. Sorry.

**Bgnome** · March 17th, 2002

personally, i think it would be nice if pete put in a test subroutine to determine whether your specific drive could handle subchannel info. that way we wouldnt have to guess and check and have noobs saying that it doesnt work

**Pete Bernert** · March 17th, 2002

>personally, i think it would be nice if pete put
>in a test subroutine to determine whether your
>specific drive could handle subchannel info. that
>way we wouldnt have to guess and check and have
>noobs saying that it doesnt work

well, if you use the "create SBI/M3S file" button in my cdr plugin, and a file will be successfully created (that means without any error message), chances are high that the reading really was successful (go figure, ehehe).

Still the final tests always will have to be if the game is working or not, when you use that subchannel file later for playing... for example I've created 10 files of Crash Team Racing on my Pioneer, and _each_ of them was slightly differently from the others... and only 9 of them were working fine. Maybe it was just a disk scratch or something, but since the subchannel reading is done by the drives without error corrections, there is always a risk that some bits in that data are (wrongly) bad... and the plugin can't detect that, since it cannot know if the bits are bad because of the copy protection, or because of some stupid reading error.

Same situation with CloneCD, btw... created several ISOs of the same game, and all the SUB files were slightly different. Kinda sucks, I know, but there is nothing I can do about it... that's life.

**Pete Bernert** · March 17th, 2002

Mmm... one thing comes into my mind right now: to read the data several times when creating a SBI/M3S file... will take longer, of course, but that way the plugin could do a double/triple/quadruple comparison to the subchannel data... mmm... we will see

March 17th, 2002	#1 (permalink)
RedJacket Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sitiawan..Perak..M'sia Posts: 103	About the sub-channel function... does anyone or which game take advantage of this new function yet..? And..if i just disabled this ...does it mean the cd-rom just function like before in epsxe1.5..? Or just leave it by default doesn't hurt? Sorry for these question coz it's kinda hard undestanding what actually this function is and further explaination is appreciated Finally..is this sub-channel thing only supported in the coming pete CD-Rom plug-in or depends on cd-rom? Thanks in advance for any reply.. btw..really expect tekken 2 going to be playable... __________________ Born to be Emulated... Specs: AMD Duron 1.2G @ 1.35G Elsa Gladiac GTS2 Pro 240/450 ViewSonic G90f 19" Flat CRT Running on Win98se DX8.1 Detonator Driver 29.42 256mb SDRam 147mhz CL2 20GB Barracuda ATA100 7200rpm Last edited by RedJacket; March 17th, 2002 at 02:11.

March 17th, 2002	#3 (permalink)
Kane 邪魔ゎ指せない Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Gosport, England Posts: 26,255	THe Sub channel support added in ePSXe 1.5.1 and Pete's 1.10 CDR plugin. This is for copy protected games, so that ppf patches are no longer nessacary. If you leave it disabled, it will function as before. It is only supported by certain CD Rom drives, with Pete's or the Internal plugin __________________ >Site Live< Pop over to my site for help with setting up PSX emulators. Help for the Final Fantasies and other RPGs avalaible Celes: (Desktop) Athlon 64 X2 4200+, 2Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, MSI K8N Platinum, GeForce 8800 GTS 320Mb, 500Gb RAID HDD, Vista Business Erika: (MCPC) Athlon XP 2400+, 1Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, geForce 6800 256Mb, 80Gb Hdd, XP 2005 MCE Kimiko: (Desktop 2) Athlon 64 3000+, 512Mb 400MHz DDR Ram, Asus K8V, geForce 6800 128Mb

March 17th, 2002	#4 (permalink)
Betamax Resident Movie Critic Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland Posts: 9,480	In a nutshell copy protected game support. However you need a cd-rom that can accurately read sub channel info (only a few can). The workaround for this is that this data can be output to a file and the emu can attempt to use this file instead of reading from the cd if your drive doesn not support it. A more though description is in the readme from pete's new cd plugin. He can describe it better than I can. __________________ Superior marketing of an inferior product will always win over inferior marketing of a superior product.

March 17th, 2002	#6 (permalink)
Goku7 Diehard 3Dfx Fanboy! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kicking Kuja's ass, all with the power of 3Dfx!! Posts: 544	So, which drives do have subchannel support? For example, I have an Actima 52x CD-ROM. Does that have subchannel support? __________________ A 233Mhz CPU. Its not just slow, its a CURSE!!

March 17th, 2002	#8 (permalink)
RedJacket Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sitiawan..Perak..M'sia Posts: 103	Not mean to offend...but i think the sub-channel function makes configuration a bit harder and complicated... like myself..getting confused at first when i got epsxe 1.51 and see those enable sub-channel support, enable sub-channel support from cd-rom and enable sub-channel caching to disk... As the perfomance really vary depends on which game and i'm having a hard time to understand what does it really mean..it's somehow much user-unfriendly a bit.. And BetaMax...say..how would i actually know my cd-rom is really being supported? __________________ Born to be Emulated... Specs: AMD Duron 1.2G @ 1.35G Elsa Gladiac GTS2 Pro 240/450 ViewSonic G90f 19" Flat CRT Running on Win98se DX8.1 Detonator Driver 29.42 256mb SDRam 147mhz CL2 20GB Barracuda ATA100 7200rpm Last edited by RedJacket; March 17th, 2002 at 18:31.

March 17th, 2002	#2 (permalink)
average_guy Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 0	what is sub-channel thing?

March 17th, 2002	#5 (permalink)
Carmofin Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austria Posts: 985	i see... so the question is, where to get those files, since you cant make them yourself?

March 17th, 2002	#9 (permalink)
Betamax Resident Movie Critic Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland Posts: 9,480	er try it? Just check the enable sub channel support and read from cd. Throw a copy protected original in and see if it works. If it crashes then your out of luck. Sorry. __________________ Superior marketing of an inferior product will always win over inferior marketing of a superior product.

March 17th, 2002	#10 (permalink)
Bgnome Who Da Gnome? Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: At Home Posts: 2,441	personally, i think it would be nice if pete put in a test subroutine to determine whether your specific drive could handle subchannel info. that way we wouldnt have to guess and check and have noobs saying that it doesnt work __________________ May the Gnome™ be With You

March 17th, 2002	#11 (permalink)
Pete Bernert FREAK Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 874	>personally, i think it would be nice if pete put >in a test subroutine to determine whether your >specific drive could handle subchannel info. that >way we wouldnt have to guess and check and have >noobs saying that it doesnt work well, if you use the "create SBI/M3S file" button in my cdr plugin, and a file will be successfully created (that means without any error message), chances are high that the reading really was successful (go figure, ehehe). Still the final tests always will have to be if the game is working or not, when you use that subchannel file later for playing... for example I've created 10 files of Crash Team Racing on my Pioneer, and _each_ of them was slightly differently from the others... and only 9 of them were working fine. Maybe it was just a disk scratch or something, but since the subchannel reading is done by the drives without error corrections, there is always a risk that some bits in that data are (wrongly) bad... and the plugin can't detect that, since it cannot know if the bits are bad because of the copy protection, or because of some stupid reading error. Same situation with CloneCD, btw... created several ISOs of the same game, and all the SUB files were slightly different. Kinda sucks, I know, but there is nothing I can do about it... that's life.

March 17th, 2002	#12 (permalink)
Pete Bernert FREAK Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 874	Mmm... one thing comes into my mind right now: to read the data several times when creating a SBI/M3S file... will take longer, of course, but that way the plugin could do a double/triple/quadruple comparison to the subchannel data... mmm... we will see

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