MAME drama: Haze leaving

[Squall-Leonhart]

Originally Posted by horseduck

some of you are damn right dis respectful, not newsworthy, you are the kinda guys that will take a dieing mans last dime , the sort who will never give anything back to society.

haze contributed alot and without his programming skills mame would not be what it is today,

the rules and ethics of mame are completly against the end user, we want to play games at there best , i mean whats a accurate representation if it runs on hardware nothing liek the oringinal hardward, how its displayed on the majority of users is not accurate with lcd's , monitors etc....

i hope haze or the new generation can regroup and supply what the end users have been asking for several years and that is 3d acceleration,

to hell with the ethics and whats right and wrong,

now haze can take a step backwards and look upon the creation called mame and outbeat it fingers crossed.

ps

if you read his statement you can tell that he was pretty cut up about the situation and felt like he owed it to us end users an expanation on why he feels he has to depart.

good on him


good luck haze

we contribute to society, we're just sick of mamedev lameness. as a mamewhore though, you are too blinded by your mamewhoreness to even have a rats ass about the real going ons within the mamedev circles.

If he was that dedicated to his code, he would branch mame and get some other dedicated coders to join him, instead hes acted like a ***** and thrown in the flag.

all in all. If you can't stand the heat. DON'T GET IN THE FRICKIN KITCHEN.

It seems you're also another misinformed fool, who thinks that mame is about playing games. SUCK IT UP, coz its not. never was, never will be. They don't give a rats arse if your game works, the project is about 1:1 hardware emulation, the fact you can play games on it is just a side effect of the supposed accuracy.

If mame was to disappear suddenly, it really wouldnt be missed at all. There are plenty, less anal, less dumbarse developers who can step up and provide emulators.
an emulator isn't meant to be accurate, which makes mame not an emulator, its a simulator.

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

---

Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; May 21st, 2009 at 07:12.

[Phil]

Good point indeed.

[smf]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

an emulator isn't meant to be accurate, which makes mame not an emulator, its a simulator.

You've got emulator vs simulator wrong.

It all depends on your point of view. Nobody does gate level emulation of a cpu, cpus are only ever emulated at the instruction level. Even if you did gate level emulation, you'd be simulating electrons.

The lower level you get, the less simulation you have and the more emulation.

It's true that we don't pander to the "fr33 g4m0rzzz dud3z" crowd, which some people do (or at least did). MAME isn't important in the grand scheme of things, so I don't know why it generates so much anger.

The MAME Team is just a group of people. Just like any group of people, we don't all share the same opinions.

[Cid Highwind]

Squall, go easy. No need to have yet another mame thread closed

Originally Posted by Squall

which makes mame not an emulator, its a simulator.

Good point, we're an emulation forums. Thread closed.

Spoiler:

j/k

Anyway, if these are their ethics, you can rant all you want but in the end you have to accept them. Otherwise, branching out would be an option. Perhaps it will happen in the future. If you've been this dedicated for a long time, I can understand from Haze's point you at least would like a break before starting to branch out immediately, just some cool down period for reflection.

__________________

PC Specs:
CPU: Intel Q8200 @ 2.8GHz
GPU: Sapphire ATi HD4870 / 1024MB / Core: 801 / Mem: 1000
Mobo: Gigabyte EP35-DS3 (rev 2.1)
SPU: Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music
RAM: 2GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 1066 @ 4-4-4-12 ~ 800MHz
HDD: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint, 32MB
PSU: Hiper Type-R 580W
Monitor: Iiyama B2403WS / 1920*1200

Geometry Wars: 198.400
Lumines: 999.999

Join the NGEmu Folding @ Home community NOW!

[mamefan]

MAME isn't important in the grand scheme of things, so I don't know why it generates so much anger.

It generates anger due to several things:

* The blatant attacks in the past developers have made on other non MAME developers, solely because of how things are done. I recall even a certain someone doing that once. MooglyGuy is known to do it too, but he is forgiven Others however, are not
* The egotistic attitude some MAMEDevs have towards other emulation methods. Some MAME devs do not have this issue.
* The attitude in general of some people. The Guru, is known to take things personally, when it comes to dumping. Which is very idiotic. And lets don't get started on Twisty. And personally, who would want to work on a project that is so morally corrupt?

That in general pisses people off. Not the speed, just the ethics and attitude of certain people. And that is quite sad, since otherwise, MAME is a great resource for emulator developers who want to use MAME as documentation.

PS: Haze complaining about drama? The MAME collaborative has enough drama for itself.

---

Last edited by mamefan; May 21st, 2009 at 10:58.

[DarkSamus]

I have always enjoyed mame, but then most games I play are 2D fighters so that would show why

But I must say that I am disappointed the Haze has left/been fired from the team! I wish him the best in the future in anything he chooses to do!

I would love to see still work in something else later though!

Maybe Elsemi and Haze's friendship could be the key to some fruit?

__________________

WINDOWS 7 ULTIMATE x64

Originally Posted by bobrocks95

The tits latch on to the female's body at the beginning of puberty and then continue to feed off her internal juices until it they grow to their full size. Then they officially take control of the host body.

[mamefan]

But I must say that I am disappointed the Haze has left/been fired from the team! I wish him the best in the future in anything he chooses to do!

yes, its a shame, but it was bound to happen sooner or later.

[cottonvibes]

Originally Posted by Cid Highwind

Good point, we're an emulation forums. Thread closed.

as smf mentioned, squall got the terms mixed up.

but it also depends on what 'level' you're talking about.
most of what we usually refer to as 'emulators' here, are emulators at the logic level, and can be thought of as simulators for lower-levels.

__________________

Eccentricity is often associated with genius, giftedness, or creativity. The individual's eccentric behavior is perceived to be the outward expression of his or her unique intelligence or creative impulse. In this vein, the eccentric's habits are incomprehensible not because they are illogical or the result of madness, but because they stem from a mind so original that it cannot be conformed to societal norms.

check out my blog

[Squall-Leonhart]

no, its Simulation, along the same way MSFS is a simulator. using software to simulate hardware.

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

[Devil Master]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

mamedevs are a petty bunch of attention whores who need to get out of their mothers basements.
[..]
If mame was to disappear suddenly, it really wouldnt be missed at all.

Wow, I completely agree. Would you mind if I used this as my signature?

[Squall-Leonhart]

like you need to ask!

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

[Cid Highwind]

Originally Posted by cottonvibes

as smf mentioned, squall got the terms mixed up.

but it also depends on what 'level' you're talking about.
most of what we usually refer to as 'emulators' here, are emulators at the logic level, and can be thought of as simulators for lower-levels.

Yeah, I see, I'm not going into a debate either, nor will I lock this thread when it leads to an interesting debate like this. I just wanted to throw in something more lighthearted

__________________

PC Specs:
CPU: Intel Q8200 @ 2.8GHz
GPU: Sapphire ATi HD4870 / 1024MB / Core: 801 / Mem: 1000
Mobo: Gigabyte EP35-DS3 (rev 2.1)
SPU: Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music
RAM: 2GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 1066 @ 4-4-4-12 ~ 800MHz
HDD: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint, 32MB
PSU: Hiper Type-R 580W
Monitor: Iiyama B2403WS / 1920*1200

Geometry Wars: 198.400
Lumines: 999.999

Join the NGEmu Folding @ Home community NOW!

[horseduck]

the argument of mame not intended ot play games is garbage, that italian boy made the beginings of mame to play pac man, then it grew,

so squall i dont care how they have adjusted there intentions over the years, and what would mame be without the end user, nothing, if no one used it then no one would care .

so before you start barking at people like me (end users) , go and have a browse on these same forums you have been a member on since feb 2006 and you will see, people here are trying to play games from there past .

the key word here is play, no one gives a rats ass about sound fx being the wrong pitch,
emulating the exact cpu timing of the arcade etc.......

PEOPLE USE EMULATORS TO PLAY GAMES

no more no less.

[Super Nest]

I sorta agree with Horseduck. I don't know why people keep insisting they can't play games with MAME, because I have hundreds and I can play them with little to no problems. Yeah, some devs like to act as jerks in forums with that rant of accuracy but ultimately they think in users a lot, and add options like mulitple screens so we now can play Outrunners showing only one screen, for instance. They also make a lot of optimizations to the code even if they keep saying in forums they don't care about speed.

I love MAME but I'm not a fanatic. I don't like the childish behaviour some devs and dumpers have, but I appreciate their hard work and I know they really care about playability. After all, the best way to preserve a game is to be able to play it. That's what they were made for.

__________________
CPU Intel Core2 D E6700 2.7Ghz | 2 GB RAM DDR2 | GeForce 9800 GTX + | 320 GB Hard Drive Space | Windows XP Pro SP3

[Squall-Leonhart]

@horseduck
read, and shut up.
Arcade Emulator

Mame is a documentation project, sometimes old rom sets are found to be missing previously miss-dumped or damaged roms, those will be replaced as found. Small color proms are also still trickling in. As new versions of Mame come on board the developers add support for new iterations and often add these files for missing games [or they will delete redundant files], this necessitates using that new updated set. Examples you might see are donkey kong, pacman, etc. from .33b. Run an audit on the game in question [highlight game, use alt-a to audit], it will tell you what files you are missing. Those will likely have been added or altered recently. You will need to locate the changed files or download a new updated set. Note: do not email the Mame or Mame32 teams about roms.

Mame as it is NOW, is a documentation project, the developers cater for that project, and not emup1r8s

Originally Posted by Super Nest

I sorta agree with Horseduck. I don't know why people keep insisting they can't play games with MAME, because I have hundreds and I can play them with little to no problems. Yeah, some devs like to act as jerks in forums with that rant of accuracy but ultimately they think in users a lot, and add options like mulitple screens so we now can play Outrunners showing only one screen, for instance. They also make a lot of optimizations to the code even if they keep saying in forums they don't care about speed.

I love MAME but I'm not a fanatic. I don't like the childish behaviour some devs and dumpers have, but I appreciate their hard work and I know they really care about playability. After all, the best way to preserve a game is to be able to play it. That's what they were made for.

Clearly you have failed at reading. Clearly.

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

---

Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; May 21st, 2009 at 13:51. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[horseduck]

believe what you want, from something for the community mame has become a documentation project, what for ?

when manny of the emulated systems are well documented.

if there emulator is not supposed to play the games that the hardware was meant for whats the point.

like i said before i dont give a rat's ass what the current dev's believe or there ethics, i know when mame was first created users eaggerly awaited to see what games were added as working in order to play these games.

i have lived in a great period of time and have played my favourite games while still in the arcade and that experience i will truelly never forget,

so if the project is just to document how the hardware works and not about the games.

that my friend is fail , an epic fail.

PEOPLE USE EMULATORS TO PLAY GAMES

---

Last edited by horseduck; May 21st, 2009 at 16:13.

[Squall-Leonhart]

edit(clarified further)
no, its only fail when noobs start cheering about mame devs adding advanced hardware support like that from naomi thinking they'll get full speed.

the documentation itself is handy for real emulators which actually run them at more then 10fps

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

---

Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; May 21st, 2009 at 14:24.

[mamefan]

if there emulator is not supposed to play the games that the hardware was meant for whats the point.

The point is documentation. Just think, from that documentation, you can get much faster emulators than whats in MAME, OR MAME can be used to fix other emulators (like things recently being researched, etc.)

[Cid Highwind]

Originally Posted by horseduck

believe what you want form something for the comunity mame has become a documentation project, what for when manny of the emulated systems are well documented.

if there emulator is not supposed to play the games that the hardware was meant for whats the point.

liek i said before i dont give a rat's ass what the current dev's believe or there ethics, i know when mame was first created users eaggerly awaited to see what games were added as working in order to play these games.

i have lived in a great period of time and have played my favourite games while still in the arcade and that experience i will truelly never forget,

so if the project is just to document how the hardware works and not about the games.

that my friend is fail , an epic fail.

PEOPLE USE EMULATORS TO PLAY GAMES

And authors write their code for their intentions. They only publish it at their leisure, but that does not mean it was written for you to get the exact arcade-fast experience. As said here before, if you want the arcade experience at home, get a port of the game, get a Dreamcast.

Their goal is to achieve perfect accuracy and it is not in their interest to have it run as fast as possible. That is their decision, and it is their goal to achieve this, and yours to respect. Feel free to disagree with their decision, but when it's about ethics and morals, no one is wrong or right.

And actually, most emulators are started for either of the two following reasons:
1. Proof of concept, that software can be run on hardware it was not made for
2. Proof of personal coding skills

__________________

PC Specs:
CPU: Intel Q8200 @ 2.8GHz
GPU: Sapphire ATi HD4870 / 1024MB / Core: 801 / Mem: 1000
Mobo: Gigabyte EP35-DS3 (rev 2.1)
SPU: Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music
RAM: 2GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 1066 @ 4-4-4-12 ~ 800MHz
HDD: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint, 32MB
PSU: Hiper Type-R 580W
Monitor: Iiyama B2403WS / 1920*1200

Geometry Wars: 198.400
Lumines: 999.999

Join the NGEmu Folding @ Home community NOW!

[Squall-Leonhart]

Originally Posted by Cid Highwind

And authors write their code for their intentions. They only publish it at their leisure, but that does not mean it was written for you to get the exact arcade-fast experience. As said here before, if you want the arcade experience at home, get a port of the game, get a Dreamcast.

Their goal is to achieve perfect accuracy and it is not in their interest to have it run as fast as possible. That is their decision, and it is their goal to achieve this, and yours to respect. Feel free to disagree with their decision, but when it's about ethics and morals, no one is wrong or right.

And actually, most emulators are started for either of the two following reasons:
1. Proof of concept, that software can be run on hardware it was not made for
2. Proof of personal coding skills

3. Expanding their coding skills.

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.