No more DirectX after DX9.0. WGF 1.0 is the next generation graohics technology. - Page 2

**Razor Blade** · October 17th, 2004

Okay enough about Longhorn. This is about WGF

Anyways cards out now won't really cut it, yes that's true, but this is also 2006 and up. So I'm sure most people will upgrade anyways. I know I will.

__________________

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Hitachi 120GB HD ● Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive ● Windows Vista Home
Premium ● Dell 2007WFP LCD ● Dell XPS M1330 Laptop ● 1TB Western
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Longbow · October 17th, 2004

you meen WTF

**Razor Blade** · October 17th, 2004

No I mean WGF ...

__________________

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Core 2 Duo T7300 2.0 GHz ● NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS ● 2GB DDR2 RAM
Hitachi 120GB HD ● Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive ● Windows Vista Home
Premium ● Dell 2007WFP LCD ● Dell XPS M1330 Laptop ● 1TB Western
Digital MyBook External HD ● Logitech Z10 Speakers ● PLAYSTATION 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Longbow · October 17th, 2004

i was jokeing
i was makeing fun of M$

proger · October 17th, 2004

LoL..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor Blade

Okay enough about Longhorn. This is about WGF

Anyways cards out now won't really cut it, yes that's true, but this is also 2006 and up. So I'm sure most people will upgrade anyways. I know I will.

Yea, Geforce FX 9000 will probally be out by then!

Last edited by proger; October 17th, 2004 at 17:47.

**blueshogun96** · October 27th, 2004

I think this WGF thing is gonna suck personally. Does anyone know if Xbox2 is going to use it?

__________________

**ector** · October 28th, 2004

I think this WGF thing is going to rock personally. And by removing legacy compatibility, they're not talking about making it impossible to run old games and emulators, the old DirectX interfaces will still be there, but they're talking about removing stuff like the fixed-function multitexturing, and other old things like that which are made obsolete by vertex and pixel shaders, from the new graphics API.

**blueshogun96** · October 28th, 2004

Thanks for the info ector, I didn't know all that.

__________________

Dukelord · November 3rd, 2004

Isn't OpenGL better than this?

D.Strange · November 3rd, 2004

Its way harder to program under OGL i think...

__________________
God didn`t create humans. Humans created God.

CPU*AMD Athlon XP 1700+ @ 2.4Ghz [12x200]*
MainBoard*EpOX EP-8RDA+*
Memory*512Mb DDR400 PC3200*
Video*ChainTech GeForceFX5600 128Mb*
Audio*Creative Sound Blaster Live!*
Drive*DVDRW LiteOn SOHW1673s 16x6x16*
HDD*Seagate 120Gb 7200RPM + Maxtor 80Gb*
OS*Windows 2K Pro SP4* DX*9.0b*
-------------------------------
*PlayStation2 SCPH50008

**ector** · November 3rd, 2004

OpenGL is aging and is falling behind at the moment, there's for example no support for instancing which has been in D3D9 from the beginning, and render to texture support in OpenGL is a horrible mess.

OpenGL: It's easy to do simple things, but very hard, messy and complicated to do complex stuff using modern hardware features.
Direct3D: It's slightly harder to do simple things, but it's often much easier than in OpenGL to do more complex/modern stuff.

D.Strange · November 3rd, 2004

Heh, so J.C done a hellish job by creating DoomIII engine - most powerfull engine for now and its working under OGL and using modernest hardware features...

__________________
God didn`t create humans. Humans created God.

CPU*AMD Athlon XP 1700+ @ 2.4Ghz [12x200]*
MainBoard*EpOX EP-8RDA+*
Memory*512Mb DDR400 PC3200*
Video*ChainTech GeForceFX5600 128Mb*
Audio*Creative Sound Blaster Live!*
Drive*DVDRW LiteOn SOHW1673s 16x6x16*
HDD*Seagate 120Gb 7200RPM + Maxtor 80Gb*
OS*Windows 2K Pro SP4* DX*9.0b*
-------------------------------
*PlayStation2 SCPH50008

MoleTheImp · November 3rd, 2004

and not to forget… ID is a member of the ARB group. It would be funny, if they would not use it!

**blueshogun96** · November 4th, 2004

If WGF is only supported in Longhorn, then obiously very few people will even think of using it because no one is going to upgrade to longhorn right away. Unless you have the money to spend.

__________________

Organ_Shifter · November 5th, 2004

I was under the impression that WGF is going to be the new standard in graphics technology period...not just for Longhorn. If this is true, doesn't it mean that we will no longer see labels informing us to have DirectX compatible cards, but WGF compatible cards instead?

__________________
Xbox 360 Controller (XBCD Drivers Info/Help) (ControlMK Info)

OS: Windows XP Pro SP2 | CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3700+ | RAM: 2GB Kingston DDR400 | Mainboard: DFI LANPARTY UT nF3 250Gb | GPU: HIS Radeon X1950 Pro IceQ3 Turbo 512MB GDDR3 AGP8x | Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster 226BW 1680x1050 Digital (3000:1, 2ms) | HD: Seagate Barracuda 250GB S-ATA | Seagate Barracuda 320GB S-ATA II | Sound: Logitech Z-5500 Digital | Case: Logisys Arcrylic Clear | Cooling: Thermaltake Sonic Tower Heatpipe Cooling | PS: SILVERSTONE ST85F Modular 850W

**ector** · November 5th, 2004

D.Strange, no, OpenGL isn't THAT far behind, just a little, and Doom III doesn't make use of all the newest hardware features.
Though John Carmack even said himself that the horrible pains of pbuffer management for doing render-to-texture in OpenGL *almost* made him switch to Direct3D.

MoleTheImp · November 5th, 2004

I also think that OpenGL 2.0 will cover modern hardware much better and the OpenGL 2.0 Objects will solve the mentioned ‘render-to-texture’ pain.

**blueshogun96** · November 5th, 2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoleTheImp

I also think that OpenGL 2.0 will cover modern hardware much better and the OpenGL 2.0 Objects will solve the mentioned ‘render-to-texture’ pain.

Same here, but will there be any major changes to the API itself?

__________________

**ector** · November 6th, 2004

Unless I've misunderstood things, the "real" planned OpenGL 2.0 is dead, they have decided to call OpenGL 1.5 with GLSL "OpenGL 2.0".

MoleTheImp · November 6th, 2004

I thought 2.0 will come after 1.5. Means... extensions forever ? A link would be highly appreciated.

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October 17th, 2004	#21 (permalink)
Razor Blade Locked and Loaded Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I AM CANADIAN! Posts: 12,031	Okay enough about Longhorn. This is about WGF Anyways cards out now won't really cut it, yes that's true, but this is also 2006 and up. So I'm sure most people will upgrade anyways. I know I will. __________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Core 2 Duo T7300 2.0 GHz ● NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS ● 2GB DDR2 RAM Hitachi 120GB HD ● Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive ● Windows Vista Home Premium ● Dell 2007WFP LCD ● Dell XPS M1330 Laptop ● 1TB Western Digital MyBook External HD ● Logitech Z10 Speakers ● PLAYSTATION 3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

October 17th, 2004	#22 (permalink)
Longbow Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: not of this planet Posts: 4	you meen WTF

October 17th, 2004	#23 (permalink)
Razor Blade Locked and Loaded Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I AM CANADIAN! Posts: 12,031	No I mean WGF ... __________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Core 2 Duo T7300 2.0 GHz ● NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS ● 2GB DDR2 RAM Hitachi 120GB HD ● Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive ● Windows Vista Home Premium ● Dell 2007WFP LCD ● Dell XPS M1330 Laptop ● 1TB Western Digital MyBook External HD ● Logitech Z10 Speakers ● PLAYSTATION 3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

October 17th, 2004	#24 (permalink)
Longbow Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: not of this planet Posts: 4	i was jokeing i was makeing fun of M$

October 27th, 2004	#26 (permalink)
blueshogun96 Emu author Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Unidentified Posts: 2,220	I think this WGF thing is gonna suck personally. Does anyone know if Xbox2 is going to use it? __________________ [Sagat] Windows XP x64 Pro \| AMD Athlon 3000+ (~2.0GHz) \| NVIDIA GeForce 6600 PCI-E \| Realtek AC97 Audio \| 512MB Ram \| NVIDIA NForce 4-4X chipset \| Seagate HDD 160GB \| LG 8614 DVD-ROM \| HP DVD 1040d CD/DVD -/+ RW w/ LightScribe [Raylene] HP dv2000 \| Windows Vista Home Premium \| Intel Core2 Duo @2.2GHz \| NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS 128Mb (Dedicated) + 1264Mb (Shared) \| 3GB Ram \| 220GB HDD GeneralEmu - December 27, 2005 and beyond! My programming, emulation and Xbox blog! - Click or die! (Updated Sunday, October 26, 2008)

October 28th, 2004	#27 (permalink)
ector Emu author Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 296	I think this WGF thing is going to rock personally. And by removing legacy compatibility, they're not talking about making it impossible to run old games and emulators, the old DirectX interfaces will still be there, but they're talking about removing stuff like the fixed-function multitexturing, and other old things like that which are made obsolete by vertex and pixel shaders, from the new graphics API.

October 28th, 2004	#28 (permalink)
blueshogun96 Emu author Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Unidentified Posts: 2,220	Thanks for the info ector, I didn't know all that. __________________ [Sagat] Windows XP x64 Pro \| AMD Athlon 3000+ (~2.0GHz) \| NVIDIA GeForce 6600 PCI-E \| Realtek AC97 Audio \| 512MB Ram \| NVIDIA NForce 4-4X chipset \| Seagate HDD 160GB \| LG 8614 DVD-ROM \| HP DVD 1040d CD/DVD -/+ RW w/ LightScribe [Raylene] HP dv2000 \| Windows Vista Home Premium \| Intel Core2 Duo @2.2GHz \| NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS 128Mb (Dedicated) + 1264Mb (Shared) \| 3GB Ram \| 220GB HDD GeneralEmu - December 27, 2005 and beyond! My programming, emulation and Xbox blog! - Click or die! (Updated Sunday, October 26, 2008)

November 3rd, 2004	#29 (permalink)
Dukelord Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: From the land beyond beyond Posts: 787	Isn't OpenGL better than this?

November 3rd, 2004	#30 (permalink)
D.Strange Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Russia Posts: 244	Its way harder to program under OGL i think... __________________ God didn`t create humans. Humans created God. CPUAMD Athlon XP 1700+ @ 2.4Ghz [12x200] MainBoardEpOX EP-8RDA+ Memory512Mb DDR400 PC3200 VideoChainTech GeForceFX5600 128Mb AudioCreative Sound Blaster Live! DriveDVDRW LiteOn SOHW1673s 16x6x16 HDDSeagate 120Gb 7200RPM + Maxtor 80Gb OSWindows 2K Pro SP4 DX9.0b ------------------------------- *PlayStation2 SCPH50008

November 3rd, 2004	#31 (permalink)
ector Emu author Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 296	OpenGL is aging and is falling behind at the moment, there's for example no support for instancing which has been in D3D9 from the beginning, and render to texture support in OpenGL is a horrible mess. OpenGL: It's easy to do simple things, but very hard, messy and complicated to do complex stuff using modern hardware features. Direct3D: It's slightly harder to do simple things, but it's often much easier than in OpenGL to do more complex/modern stuff.

November 3rd, 2004	#32 (permalink)
D.Strange Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Russia Posts: 244	Heh, so J.C done a hellish job by creating DoomIII engine - most powerfull engine for now and its working under OGL and using modernest hardware features... __________________ God didn`t create humans. Humans created God. CPUAMD Athlon XP 1700+ @ 2.4Ghz [12x200] MainBoardEpOX EP-8RDA+ Memory512Mb DDR400 PC3200 VideoChainTech GeForceFX5600 128Mb AudioCreative Sound Blaster Live! DriveDVDRW LiteOn SOHW1673s 16x6x16 HDDSeagate 120Gb 7200RPM + Maxtor 80Gb OSWindows 2K Pro SP4 DX9.0b ------------------------------- *PlayStation2 SCPH50008

November 3rd, 2004	#33 (permalink)
MoleTheImp Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 9	and not to forget… ID is a member of the ARB group. It would be funny, if they would not use it!

November 4th, 2004	#34 (permalink)
blueshogun96 Emu author Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Unidentified Posts: 2,220	If WGF is only supported in Longhorn, then obiously very few people will even think of using it because no one is going to upgrade to longhorn right away. Unless you have the money to spend. __________________ [Sagat] Windows XP x64 Pro \| AMD Athlon 3000+ (~2.0GHz) \| NVIDIA GeForce 6600 PCI-E \| Realtek AC97 Audio \| 512MB Ram \| NVIDIA NForce 4-4X chipset \| Seagate HDD 160GB \| LG 8614 DVD-ROM \| HP DVD 1040d CD/DVD -/+ RW w/ LightScribe [Raylene] HP dv2000 \| Windows Vista Home Premium \| Intel Core2 Duo @2.2GHz \| NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS 128Mb (Dedicated) + 1264Mb (Shared) \| 3GB Ram \| 220GB HDD GeneralEmu - December 27, 2005 and beyond! My programming, emulation and Xbox blog! - Click or die! (Updated Sunday, October 26, 2008)

November 5th, 2004	#35 (permalink)
Organ_Shifter Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 26	I was under the impression that WGF is going to be the new standard in graphics technology period...not just for Longhorn. If this is true, doesn't it mean that we will no longer see labels informing us to have DirectX compatible cards, but WGF compatible cards instead? __________________ Xbox 360 Controller (XBCD Drivers Info/Help) (ControlMK Info) OS: Windows XP Pro SP2 \| CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3700+ \| RAM: 2GB Kingston DDR400 \| Mainboard: DFI LANPARTY UT nF3 250Gb \| GPU: HIS Radeon X1950 Pro IceQ3 Turbo 512MB GDDR3 AGP8x \| Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster 226BW 1680x1050 Digital (3000:1, 2ms) \| HD: Seagate Barracuda 250GB S-ATA \| Seagate Barracuda 320GB S-ATA II \| Sound: Logitech Z-5500 Digital \| Case: Logisys Arcrylic Clear \| Cooling: Thermaltake Sonic Tower Heatpipe Cooling \| PS: SILVERSTONE ST85F Modular 850W

November 5th, 2004	#36 (permalink)
ector Emu author Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 296	D.Strange, no, OpenGL isn't THAT far behind, just a little, and Doom III doesn't make use of all the newest hardware features. Though John Carmack even said himself that the horrible pains of pbuffer management for doing render-to-texture in OpenGL almost made him switch to Direct3D.

November 5th, 2004	#37 (permalink)
MoleTheImp Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 9	I also think that OpenGL 2.0 will cover modern hardware much better and the OpenGL 2.0 Objects will solve the mentioned ‘render-to-texture’ pain.

November 6th, 2004	#39 (permalink)
ector Emu author Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 296	Unless I've misunderstood things, the "real" planned OpenGL 2.0 is dead, they have decided to call OpenGL 1.5 with GLSL "OpenGL 2.0".

November 6th, 2004	#40 (permalink)
MoleTheImp Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 9	I thought 2.0 will come after 1.5. Means... extensions forever ? A link would be highly appreciated.