Idea about different XDK Versions

knatsch · July 17th, 2003

At First, caustik, you are doing a real fine job! The last days I followed your project very interested!

Currently you are supporting XDK Version 4627, which means it is possible to support games compiled by this XDK. I believe that there are some few other games compiled by this version.
So why not start an online list, in which everyone can add a game name and the XDK Version?
Perhaps we can find one or two more games we can test?

You could add a function to CXBX which determines the XDK (for most users it is to complicated to crawl through the log)

I hope this isn't nonesense

Again, great work!

Bye,
knatsch

jimmsta · July 17th, 2003

It's quite simple. Just load the xbe, and dump the xbe info. Then look at the modules that are loaded, and look at the very last number in the version number. Whichever xdk version its close to is its xdk version.

SilverIce · July 17th, 2003

I was testing my games, and I stumbled across a game that uses 4627 XDK. The game is SEGA GT 2002. Please note that this is the game that came bundled with JSRF in the xbox game bundle. This may impact the version information, but it may not. For your convience, I have attached some other game information.

Please note that some games use multiple XDK's. This is why you see multiple numbers. Good luck getting Halo to run in the near future =)

UNREAL CHAMPIONSHIP - 1.0.4928
JET SET RADIO FUTURE - 1.0.4134
SEGA GT 2002 *** - 1.0.4627
ODDWORLD - 1.0.3941
- 1.0.3911
HALO - 1.0.3937
- 1.0.3911
- 1.0.3936
- 1.0.3925
MADDEN 2002 - 1.0.3911
- 1.0.3925
MORROWIND - 1.0.4531

Hope this helps some people =)
BTW, keep up the AWESOME work caustik!

RE-EDIT: Jeez, quick reply caustik!
- SilverIce

**caustik** · July 17th, 2003

I am aware of this, and I am working on SegaGT also. Anything using 4361 is also fair game at this point (I just need to cache them on my HD)

SilverIce · July 18th, 2003

I was testing some of the XBE's that are on OXM Demo discs and found the following Games compatible.

Disc 7:

Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath of Cortex
Uses 1.0.4361

Disc 9:

Hunter: The Reckoning
Uses 1.0.4361

Street Hoops
Uses 1.0.4361

On a side note this MAY not be the same XDK's used in the retail games
as here is the XDK versions used by the retail version of halo...

- 1.0.3937
- 1.0.3911
- 1.0.3936
- 1.0.3925

While the Halo demo uses....

- 1.0.3950
- 1.0.3948
- 1.0.3911
- 1.0.3936
- 1.0.3937

Hope this is helpful to some people out there!

- SilverIce

jimmsta · July 18th, 2003

Wait... there's a Halo Demo? Hrm... I wonder if the xbe has all the weapon names decrypted.... (This would help in...*cough*patching*cough* halo.)

TerrorShocked · July 18th, 2003

kcar181 · July 18th, 2003

Crazy Taxi 3: High Roller - 1.0.4531
Marval vs Capcom 2 - 1.0.4831
Bloody Roar Extreme - 1.0.5233
Hulk - 1.0.5344
Finding Nemo - 1.0.5344

Edit: Oops you seem to have bloody roar already

PentiumPro · July 18th, 2003

Damn. Halo is an old devkit. I think...well who cares what I think.It would be great just to start with the devkits that have the most popular games.

DC_daNMan · July 18th, 2003

Just a question, why does it matter what XDK version is used, I thought it was the hardware that is being emulated, not the software?? If you want to hit over the head with a mallet, be my guest...

TerrorShocked · July 18th, 2003

Yeah, it really does depend on which XDK the game is.... Older ones are like impossible to find so it is very tricky.

DC_daNMan · July 18th, 2003

obviosly, halo would be an old devkit, the Xboxs final specs hadn't even been agreed when halo was coming over to Xbox. how do you make a game for a console that hasn't been finalised?

Carnaby · July 18th, 2003

Airforce Delta Storm 1.0.3911
Kabuki Warrior 1.0.3911
1.0.3925
1.0.3936
Fusion Frenzy 1.0.3911
1.0.3925
NBA Live 2002 1.0.3911
1.0.3925
1.0.3936
Simpson Roadrage 1.0.3936
1.0.4034
Outlaw Golf 1.0.4134
Rallisport Challenge 1.0.4134
Gun Walkyries 1.0.4134
Wreckless 1.0.4134
MLS Extratime 2002 1.0.4134
Slam Tennis 1.0.4242
ISS2 1.0.4361
Soccer Slam 1.0.4432
Agressive Inline 1.0.4627
Quantum Redshift 1.0.4721
Rocky 1.0.4721
Time Splitter 2 1.0.4721
Blinx 1.0.4721
House of the Dead 3 1.0.4831
Transworld Snowboarding 1.0.4831
Tony Hawk 4 1.0.4928
MicroMachine 1.0.4928
Racin evolution 1.0.5028
Kung fu chaos 1.0.5120
The Sims 1.0.5233
Rayman 3 1.0.5233
Moto Gp 2 1.0.5233
Burnout 2 1.0.5344
Soul calibur 2 1.0.5344

Hope this can help cxbx

DC_daNMan · July 18th, 2003

Whats so diffretn from these XDK's that means that cxbx can only emulate certain ones, they cant all be that diffrent (well obviosly they can, cxbx can only do 2...). This thererfore brings another question to my attention, Why dont you need a diffrent xbox for every game with an individual XDK? Im confused, but then again, when am I not?

SilverIce · July 18th, 2003

I did some looking around and I found that the following retail games use the compatible XDK's.

- MOTOGP
- ISS2
- TUROK EVOLUTION
- SEGA GT 2002
- AGGRESSIVE INLINE

Keep an eye on those games!

- Silverice

**caustik** · July 18th, 2003

Next in line to be supported would be : 4721, 4134, and um...5344...(not necessarily in that order)

chipsugar · July 19th, 2003

DC_daNMan: To answer a few of your posts. Cxbx emulates the *software* not the hardware, which is why it can get ~100% on machines with a similar spec as the xbox. This is good as Cxbx can run *most* of he xbox software natively whereas hardware emulation can need as must as 50 cpu instructions to emulate 1 virtual cpu instruction.

As microsoft customised lots of xbox not all of the xbox executable can be run natively on a standard pc. However, as developers would rather spend time worrying about designing games and improving AI routines, than intricate graphics card output commands, anything that refers to the hardware directly is done through the nt kernel dll (wrapped to wrapped to 2000/xp by caustik) or through the microsoft XDK software. The XDK version is really only a software revision after all. Whew !

This is where individual XDK come in. As bug fixes and other requested features are added to the XDK they get shipped to the developers. Whatever XDK software the developer made the game with is then patched into the game executable file and then shipped to the general public.

As the XDK software is obviously xbox hardware specific even a pc cannot use this code, so even when Cxbx matures and has high compatibility new code will need to be added to emulate new XDK versions.

Individual versions *might* not differ much, but microsoft might release an XDK that breaks compatibility with previous versions. NO xbox programmer or gamer will care much as the correct xdk code is shipped with each game.

For us though, as games require the functions of their xdk version to be emulated correctly and as Cxbx isn't that mature yet, Caustik is trying to emulate xdk versions using games and demos that he has and can verify.

As far as I'm aware all of the above is true but if caustik or anyone else would like to correct me then feel free.

chipsugar · July 19th, 2003

Also, Halo is coming to pc soon anyway so halo probably won't get that much interest for it's XDK to be emulated from anyone that doesn't already have it.

However a Linux modded xbox with wine might be able to run the pc version!

DC_daNMan · July 19th, 2003

Thanks chipsugar, one hell of a sentence there, thats cleared alot of stuff up for me thanks!

kcar181 · July 19th, 2003

Lakemasters - 1.0.5455
Dead or alive 3 -1.0.3911
: 1.0.3925
: 1.0.3936

July 17th, 2003	#1 (permalink)
knatsch Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 18	Idea about different XDK Versions At First, caustik, you are doing a real fine job! The last days I followed your project very interested! Currently you are supporting XDK Version 4627, which means it is possible to support games compiled by this XDK. I believe that there are some few other games compiled by this version. So why not start an online list, in which everyone can add a game name and the XDK Version? Perhaps we can find one or two more games we can test? You could add a function to CXBX which determines the XDK (for most users it is to complicated to crawl through the log) I hope this isn't nonesense Again, great work! Bye, knatsch

July 17th, 2003	#2 (permalink)
jimmsta Helper Monkey Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 42	Re: Idea about different XDK Versions It's quite simple. Just load the xbe, and dump the xbe info. Then look at the modules that are loaded, and look at the very last number in the version number. Whichever xdk version its close to is its xdk version.

July 17th, 2003	#3 (permalink)
SilverIce Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 32	Game found using 4627 I was testing my games, and I stumbled across a game that uses 4627 XDK. The game is SEGA GT 2002. Please note that this is the game that came bundled with JSRF in the xbox game bundle. This may impact the version information, but it may not. For your convience, I have attached some other game information. Please note that some games use multiple XDK's. This is why you see multiple numbers. Good luck getting Halo to run in the near future =) UNREAL CHAMPIONSHIP - 1.0.4928 JET SET RADIO FUTURE - 1.0.4134 SEGA GT 2002 *** - 1.0.4627 ODDWORLD - 1.0.3941 - 1.0.3911 HALO - 1.0.3937 - 1.0.3911 - 1.0.3936 - 1.0.3925 MADDEN 2002 - 1.0.3911 - 1.0.3925 MORROWIND - 1.0.4531 Hope this helps some people =) BTW, keep up the AWESOME work caustik! RE-EDIT: Jeez, quick reply caustik! - SilverIce

July 17th, 2003	#4 (permalink)
caustik Emu author Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 172	Re: Idea about different XDK Versions I am aware of this, and I am working on SegaGT also. Anything using 4361 is also fair game at this point (I just need to cache them on my HD)

July 18th, 2003	#5 (permalink)
SilverIce Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 32	Magazine Demo's compatible I was testing some of the XBE's that are on OXM Demo discs and found the following Games compatible. Disc 7: Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath of Cortex Uses 1.0.4361 Disc 9: Hunter: The Reckoning Uses 1.0.4361 Street Hoops Uses 1.0.4361 On a side note this MAY not be the same XDK's used in the retail games as here is the XDK versions used by the retail version of halo... - 1.0.3937 - 1.0.3911 - 1.0.3936 - 1.0.3925 While the Halo demo uses.... - 1.0.3950 - 1.0.3948 - 1.0.3911 - 1.0.3936 - 1.0.3937 Hope this is helpful to some people out there! - SilverIce

July 18th, 2003	#6 (permalink)
jimmsta Helper Monkey Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 42	Re: Idea about different XDK Versions Wait... there's a Halo Demo? Hrm... I wonder if the xbe has all the weapon names decrypted.... (This would help in...coughpatchingcough halo.)

July 18th, 2003	#7 (permalink)
TerrorShocked Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 839

July 18th, 2003	#8 (permalink)
kcar181 Huh? Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: . Posts: 130	Re: Idea about different XDK Versions Crazy Taxi 3: High Roller - 1.0.4531 Marval vs Capcom 2 - 1.0.4831 Bloody Roar Extreme - 1.0.5233 Hulk - 1.0.5344 Finding Nemo - 1.0.5344 Edit: Oops you seem to have bloody roar already __________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- \|AMD 1.3ghz, 1024mb RAM, Sound Blaster Audigy XGamer, NVidia GeForce4 TI4800SE \| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last edited by kcar181; July 18th, 2003 at 07:04.

July 18th, 2003	#9 (permalink)
PentiumPro Leading the way. Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Simi Valley, California. USA Posts: 777	Re: Idea about different XDK Versions Damn. Halo is an old devkit. I think...well who cares what I think.It would be great just to start with the devkits that have the most popular games. __________________ CPU: P4 3.0GHZ Prescott HT @3.6][MB: Asus P5LD2][RAM: 1GB][Video Card: ASUS EAX800/ I.E. Radeon X800 256MB][Optiwrite DVD+R/RW 8x][40GB WinXP SP2-OS][250GB SATA Storage(Full)][120GB EIDE Storage (Full)][160GB Sata Storage][And one badass case!]

July 18th, 2003	#10 (permalink)
DC_daNMan Evading Death +the Taxman Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: GMT +0 Posts: 327	Re: Idea about different XDK Versions Just a question, why does it matter what XDK version is used, I thought it was the hardware that is being emulated, not the software?? If you want to hit over the head with a mallet, be my guest... __________________ Thanks, :microwave DC_

July 18th, 2003	#11 (permalink)
TerrorShocked Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 839	Re: Idea about different XDK Versions Yeah, it really does depend on which XDK the game is.... Older ones are like impossible to find so it is very tricky.

July 18th, 2003	#12 (permalink)
DC_daNMan Evading Death +the Taxman Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: GMT +0 Posts: 327	Re: Idea about different XDK Versions obviosly, halo would be an old devkit, the Xboxs final specs hadn't even been agreed when halo was coming over to Xbox. how do you make a game for a console that hasn't been finalised? __________________ Thanks, :microwave DC_

July 18th, 2003	#13 (permalink)
Carnaby Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4	Airforce Delta Storm 1.0.3911 Kabuki Warrior 1.0.3911 1.0.3925 1.0.3936 Fusion Frenzy 1.0.3911 1.0.3925 NBA Live 2002 1.0.3911 1.0.3925 1.0.3936 Simpson Roadrage 1.0.3936 1.0.4034 Outlaw Golf 1.0.4134 Rallisport Challenge 1.0.4134 Gun Walkyries 1.0.4134 Wreckless 1.0.4134 MLS Extratime 2002 1.0.4134 Slam Tennis 1.0.4242 ISS2 1.0.4361 Soccer Slam 1.0.4432 Agressive Inline 1.0.4627 Quantum Redshift 1.0.4721 Rocky 1.0.4721 Time Splitter 2 1.0.4721 Blinx 1.0.4721 House of the Dead 3 1.0.4831 Transworld Snowboarding 1.0.4831 Tony Hawk 4 1.0.4928 MicroMachine 1.0.4928 Racin evolution 1.0.5028 Kung fu chaos 1.0.5120 The Sims 1.0.5233 Rayman 3 1.0.5233 Moto Gp 2 1.0.5233 Burnout 2 1.0.5344 Soul calibur 2 1.0.5344 Hope this can help cxbx Last edited by Carnaby; July 18th, 2003 at 23:12.

July 18th, 2003	#14 (permalink)
DC_daNMan Evading Death +the Taxman Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: GMT +0 Posts: 327	Re: Idea about different XDK Versions Whats so diffretn from these XDK's that means that cxbx can only emulate certain ones, they cant all be that diffrent (well obviosly they can, cxbx can only do 2...). This thererfore brings another question to my attention, Why dont you need a diffrent xbox for every game with an individual XDK? Im confused, but then again, when am I not? __________________ Thanks, :microwave DC_

July 18th, 2003	#15 (permalink)
SilverIce Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 32	Re: Idea about different XDK Versions I did some looking around and I found that the following retail games use the compatible XDK's. - MOTOGP - ISS2 - TUROK EVOLUTION - SEGA GT 2002 - AGGRESSIVE INLINE Keep an eye on those games! - Silverice

July 18th, 2003	#16 (permalink)
caustik Emu author Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 172	Re: Idea about different XDK Versions Next in line to be supported would be : 4721, 4134, and um...5344...(not necessarily in that order)

July 19th, 2003	#17 (permalink)
chipsugar Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 123	DC_daNMan: To answer a few of your posts. Cxbx emulates the software not the hardware, which is why it can get ~100% on machines with a similar spec as the xbox. This is good as Cxbx can run most of he xbox software natively whereas hardware emulation can need as must as 50 cpu instructions to emulate 1 virtual cpu instruction. As microsoft customised lots of xbox not all of the xbox executable can be run natively on a standard pc. However, as developers would rather spend time worrying about designing games and improving AI routines, than intricate graphics card output commands, anything that refers to the hardware directly is done through the nt kernel dll (wrapped to wrapped to 2000/xp by caustik) or through the microsoft XDK software. The XDK version is really only a software revision after all. Whew ! This is where individual XDK come in. As bug fixes and other requested features are added to the XDK they get shipped to the developers. Whatever XDK software the developer made the game with is then patched into the game executable file and then shipped to the general public. As the XDK software is obviously xbox hardware specific even a pc cannot use this code, so even when Cxbx matures and has high compatibility new code will need to be added to emulate new XDK versions. Individual versions might not differ much, but microsoft might release an XDK that breaks compatibility with previous versions. NO xbox programmer or gamer will care much as the correct xdk code is shipped with each game. For us though, as games require the functions of their xdk version to be emulated correctly and as Cxbx isn't that mature yet, Caustik is trying to emulate xdk versions using games and demos that he has and can verify. As far as I'm aware all of the above is true but if caustik or anyone else would like to correct me then feel free.

July 19th, 2003	#18 (permalink)
chipsugar Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 123	Also, Halo is coming to pc soon anyway so halo probably won't get that much interest for it's XDK to be emulated from anyone that doesn't already have it. However a Linux modded xbox with wine might be able to run the pc version!

July 19th, 2003	#19 (permalink)
DC_daNMan Evading Death +the Taxman Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: GMT +0 Posts: 327	Re: Idea about different XDK Versions Thanks chipsugar, one hell of a sentence there, thats cleared alot of stuff up for me thanks! __________________ Thanks, :microwave DC_

July 19th, 2003	#20 (permalink)
kcar181 Huh? Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: . Posts: 130	Re: Idea about different XDK Versions Lakemasters - 1.0.5455 Dead or alive 3 -1.0.3911 : 1.0.3925 : 1.0.3936 __________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- \|AMD 1.3ghz, 1024mb RAM, Sound Blaster Audigy XGamer, NVidia GeForce4 TI4800SE \| -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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