Dual core Vs. Single.

[moccor]

Which is faster, a 4ghz single core or 2ghz dual core? I'm gonna be getting new computer parts. Also which is better for games and emulation? I won't be doing much multitasking. Pretty much just Aim and a game or emulator.

[refraction]

i presum ethe 4ghz single core is a pentium 4 and the dual core is a core 2 duo right?

well if thats the case, the core2 duo is porbably like 2 of them single cores running at 3.6Ghz.

but dual core is certainly the way forward. besides, the core 2's can be easily overclocked to 3Ghz or above, which is like 2 of them p4's at 5ghz (roughly)

[tuanming]

I'll bet 2Ghz Core 2 over 4Ghz single core anyday. Single core...don't like them :D They're only good for basic computing and that's all. And there's no real benefit gain if you still have a crappy ass graphic card with a dual core processor.

[jonc2006]

Which is faster, a 4ghz single core or 2ghz dual core? I'm gonna be getting new computer parts. Also which is better for games and emulation? I won't be doing much multitasking. Pretty much just Aim and a game or emulator.

your performance will usually be smoother on a dual core regardless. alot of this is due to the fact that you will be able to have the 2 cores devoted to different tasks and keeping them separate so that the brunt of your workload isnt being stacked onto just one core. you would probably have one core for gaming stuff, the other specifically for all other background applications and whatnot. it may not too much of a difference (depending on the clock speed in some ways) but generally multi core processors are able to run certain programs and do certain tasks more efficiantly than single cores do. keep in mind that the clock speed of any processor is not the only factor that decides if it is better or worse than something else.

[moccor]

Ok ill go with a dual core. It will be AMD though. Does dual core still work better for AMD too rather then single?

[Squall-Leonhart]

if your going AMD, DON'T UPGRADE YET.

current gen Athlon64's are soon to be outdated greatly.

me? i wanna check out this per core overclocking that AMD has in mind ^^

[FLaRe85]

The performance of dual core depends on the application's threading abilities, really. If the app you're running isn't multi-threaded there will be no performance benefit whatsoever. However, the OS's support for SMP will help, but only slightly.

[jonc2006]

Ok ill go with a dual core. It will be AMD though. Does dual core still work better for AMD too rather then single?

for the most part. take note of what flare said though, applications need to be designed with multicore's in mind in order for you to get the benifits of what it offers. pretty soon, you are going to be seeing games and applications being released that are multi-core driven sometime in the near future, but right now, most games are driven by single cores. at this time, dual cores would give you better multi tasking performance, and your O/S would run a little bit better, but there are only a handful of games out right now that would get performance benifits. off the top of my head i think quake 4, crysis and possiblly bioshock are good examples, there are more, and im positive on quake 4. if you are intrested in next gen gaming and do a lot of multi tasking (which you said you were not going to be doing alot of), dual cores would be the best way to go. if your not, a fast single core would be all you really need at this point.

edit- just to point out, you said you wanted to do emulation, right? what kind? if you are looking at ps2 emulation a dual core would definitly be what you would want. any kind of emulation below that (ps1, n64,etc) would be fine on a single core.

[moccor]

Ok. Last question, is a 3ghz dual core 2x 1.5single cores? Or 2x 3ghz cores?

[fried_egg]

2 x 3 ghz cores. you cant add the clock speeds from both cores together.

[moccor]

2 x 3 ghz cores. you cant add the clock speeds from both cores together.

Not that I don't believe you. But can someone verify this? Just that most people that have their computer specs in their sig id think they know more of what theyr talking about. No offense.

[fried_egg]

e6300@ 3ghz 7900gtx 2 gigs supertalent 667 @ 850 mhz. 5-5-5-15 happy?

[refraction]

Not that I don't believe you. But can someone verify this? Just that most people that have their computer specs in their sig id think they know more of what theyr talking about. No offense.

he speaks the truth, those who add the speeds together n say "wow i have a 6Ghz cpu!" are just idiots or dont have a clue what they are talking about.

[Cid Highwind]

Fried Egg is right :)

Dual core processors have two whole cores, not two halves. He's also right that you can't simply add both clock speeds together saying you've got a 6gHz processor when you have two 3gHz processors in your PC. That's because things are a bit more complicated, in some cases it does mean you get double the performance, but in other cases you don't.

Regardless of exact performance, any dual core will outperform a single core system at any given task. There's no reason NOT to go with a dual core chip. They've become affordable a long time ago and it simply makes doing your daily desktop stuff enjoyable. And with PC gaming you don't have to worry about CPU power anymore because any high end C2D is fast enough anyway, you'll most likely be bottlenecked by your GPU anyway.

[tuanming]

Yeah, I used to think like that too long long ago or did I? Don't really remember since it too long ago ^^. Some things aren't meant to be added together :)

[runawayprisoner]

Now hyper-threaded processors... you can add the frequency, but for dual-core processors, you can't. And the frequency doesn't say anything about the actual performance. It just means that the CPU can receive/send more data. Hence why a single core of a dual core processor running at 1.8GHz may leave a single-core processor in the dust in terms of performance. And also why we have the performance-per-clock comparison when it comes to overclocking. :p

[moccor]

Hmm thanks for info. These new AMD mobo's, is it certain they will be out next month? And about how much will they cost? Cuz im gonna be getting a new mobo and if I can get a better for same price that'd be great.

I know I can edit my previous post. But I don't think if I did that it'd go to top of list of threads. Will this combination work well for Dreamcast and NDS emulation?
And about how many FPS do you think I'd get on PCSX2? I know I won't get probably 30maximum. But I hope for this computer to run PCSX2 in future with 100% speed. ( I know this will be a year or 2 )

ABIT AN-M2 nView AM2 NVIDIA Geforce 7025/NF630a Micro ATX AMD Motherboard or
GIGABYTE GA-M57SLI-S4 AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ Windsor 2.4GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 65W Processor
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
GIGABYTE GV-RX24T256H Radeon HD 2400XT 256MB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready Video Card

The graphics card I'm not sure about. I want a card that has DirectX10 that is pretty good. But isn't gonna cost a lot of $$.

[fried_egg]

That set up will never be able to run pcsx2 at 100% speed. The processor is old and weak and the graphics card is terrible. You say you want a DX10 card, but unless you fork out some money for a DX10 card that is a performer, DX10 becomes meaningless unless you're planning on watching a lot of HD content.

[jonc2006]

Hmm thanks for info. These new AMD mobo's, is it certain they will be out next month? And about how much will they cost? Cuz im gonna be getting a new mobo and if I can get a better for same price that'd be great.

I know I can edit my previous post. But I don't think if I did that it'd go to top of list of threads. Will this combination work well for Dreamcast and NDS emulation?
And about how many FPS do you think I'd get on PCSX2? I know I won't get probably 30maximum. But I hope for this computer to run PCSX2 in future with 100% speed. ( I know this will be a year or 2 )

ABIT AN-M2 nView AM2 NVIDIA Geforce 7025/NF630a Micro ATX AMD Motherboard or
GIGABYTE GA-M57SLI-S4 AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ Windsor 2.4GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 65W Processor
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
GIGABYTE GV-RX24T256H Radeon HD 2400XT 256MB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready Video Card

The graphics card I'm not sure about. I want a card that has DirectX10 that is pretty good. But isn't gonna cost a lot of $$.

you need a really souped up rig to run ps2 emulation at full speed. i would wait a few years for the prices of current high end hardware to go down before shelling out cash for a pc to run it, right now its too expensive.

[moccor]

That set up will never be able to run pcsx2 at 100% speed. The processor is old and weak and the graphics card is terrible. You say you want a DX10 card, but unless you fork out some money for a DX10 card that is a performer, DX10 becomes meaningless unless you're planning on watching a lot of HD content.

I don't plan on running the PCSX2 at 100% now. I'm talking in a few years. Is a DirectX10 card required to play games like Gears of War? If not I'd rather get a way better DirectX9 card.

[jonc2006]

its required for some of the graphical features i believe, but its not mandatory to play the game. eventually future games will abandon dx9 support and require dx10, so if next gen gaming is your thing, getting a fully dx10 supported card will be smarter in the long run.

[moccor]

its required for some of the graphical features i believe, but its not mandatory to play the game. eventually future games will abandon dx9 support and require dx10, so if next gen gaming is your thing, getting a fully dx10 supported card will be smarter in the long run.

Which card is the best for the money? I'd search but that wouldn't help me cuz I really don't know what specs make a good video card.

[runawayprisoner]

Which card is the best for the money? I'd search but that wouldn't help me cuz I really don't know what specs make a good video card.

You can choose either HD3870 or 8800GT. Both of which are retailing for about $200 to $260... though they are nowhere to be found due to stock shortages.

As for AMD boards, AM2 is still compatible with the next generation of AMD processors... so a whole different board is not required. You won't be able to have the performance that Intel offers, though. Here's what I'd recommend:

Intel E4500 or E2160 if your budget doesn't allow the E4500.
Any ASUS P35 motherboard... or just get a cheap one from ECS.
Any pair of 2GB DDR2 6400.
Either the 8800GT or the HD3870

The entire thing should not cost you anymore than $600... and it will last you through anything! Even Crysis.

[moccor]

Hm I'm gonna need a job :P. Would any of those mobos work with a radeon 9200. Cuz i won't be able to get all this for Christmas. and I don't want to look at a video card box for couple months lol. Also could an AMD XP 1800+ cpu work with it? Doubt it it's very old. What kind of cooling should I have with that combination? I don't plan on olverclocking it.

[fried_egg]

That's going to be a probably not and a no. Athlon xp is a completely different socket type and your radeon 9200 is probably agp which most newer boards don't support. You'd be best off waiting until you could make a complete build in one purchase. If you're not overclocking stock cooling will be fine, but it makes me cry whenever I hear about someone buying a core 2 duo and not squeezing a free 400mhz or so out of it.

[runawayprisoner]

That's going to be a probably not and a no. Athlon xp is a completely different socket type and your radeon 9200 is probably agp which most newer boards don't support. You'd be best off waiting until you could make a complete build in one purchase. If you're not overclocking stock cooling will be fine, but it makes me cry whenever I hear about someone buying a core 2 duo and not squeezing a free 400mhz or so out of it.

Cry then... I'm playing CRYsis with a E2140 that's NOT overclocked! :p No... seriously, it's not that GPU-bound.

As for the OP, ya, you're better off with a whole system purchase rather than separate updates. Separate updates to be backward-compatible with your current system will cost more than a whole new system that is future-proof.

[moccor]

You can choose either HD3870 or 8800GT. Both of which are retailing for about $200 to $260... though they are nowhere to be found due to stock shortages.

As for AMD boards, AM2 is still compatible with the next generation of AMD processors... so a whole different board is not required. You won't be able to have the performance that Intel offers, though. Here's what I'd recommend:

Intel E4500 or E2160 if your budget doesn't allow the E4500.
Any ASUS P35 motherboard... or just get a cheap one from ECS.
Any pair of 2GB DDR2 6400.
Either the 8800GT or the HD3870

The entire thing should not cost you anymore than $600... and it will last you through anything! Even Crysis.

Could you recommend an AMD mobo. I'd appreciate it :) .

[runawayprisoner]

Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-DS4 AM2+/AM2 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128075)

^= *cough* Pricey... but it is backward compatible with Athlon64 X2 and forward-compatible with Phenom FX. With SLI PCI-E 16x (2.0) and other stuffs... that's gotta be worth something at least.

Edit: And though it says DDR2 1066, it should support DDR 800, and CAN overclock DDR2 800 to 1066, since that's the case with most DDR2 1066 modules nowadays. They are just overclocked by default.

[fried_egg]

Wow. Why would you pay that much for an AMD board when the main thing AMD processors have going for them is their low price and their similar price/performance ratio when not overclocking.

Any particular reason you're so adamant about going AMD? If you're placing your bets on Phenom, AMD is still going to be pretty much in the same position they're in right now when it's compared to penryn.

[Master Chief]

Wow. Why would you pay that much for an AMD board when the main thing AMD processors have going for them is their low price and their similar price/performance ratio when not overclocking.


But like you said, the price performance ratio is real good. The Phenom 9500 is only 248$ according to what I've been reading. For some people that's a very inviting price.

Although, I do agree that AMD is still behind. Their best Phenom, the 9700, is being delayed a year. Also, according to the benchmarks and my reading, it still falls behind the current gen Intel quads in many areas.

Phenom 9700, AMD's 1st Quad-Core CPU | Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/19/the_spider_weaves_its_web/)

[runawayprisoner]

Simple: People with current AMD cpus don't want to shell out up to $200 a time to switch to an Intel system with almost the same performance... while they could pay $150 for a newer board that supports newer AMD chips. The price/performance ratio is not good for AMD anymore ever since Intel introduced the E4xxx series... and most recently, the E21xx series. But upgrading to any of those would still mean another $200 out of your wallet.

[fried_egg]

So they would be willing to shell out almost $200 on a board alone that they would be throwing their old processor into? That wouldn't be maintaining the same performance?

If someone is going for value in their pc and they want an AMD processor, I think it would be best to keep it cheap in most of the components and not go for things that brand new technology and as of yet meaningless. By this I mean pci-e 2.0, some of the advanced AM2 features, etc.

[runawayprisoner]

It's just because AMD is losing in performance... but hey, you wouldn't want to see the top boards from Intel. They are at the same price level... and only with them will you get the most out of your Intel processor. Spending another $100 or so on an Intel processor and then $200 for an Intel board is not really a pretty thing now, is it?

[fried_egg]

So all that being said why would you recommend such a pricey AMD mobo?

[moccor]

It's just because AMD is losing in performance... but hey, you wouldn't want to see the top boards from Intel. They are at the same price level... and only with them will you get the most out of your Intel processor. Spending another $100 or so on an Intel processor and then $200 for an Intel board is not really a pretty thing now, is it?

Hey, in your sig,
CPU: Intel Pentium Dual-Core E2140 @ 1.60GHz (for god's sake, it's a Conroe! Oh well...)

How well does that emulate Dreamcast, Gamecube, or PS2 if u tried? Because I really don't think much Ghz on a cpu helps much and I plan on getting a low dual core too. Also which do you think would be better. ur cpu or a 2.5ghz dual core AMD? I'm not flaming or anything I just want to know how AMD compares to intel. Cuz AMD is cheaper. But if Intel is better and close to same price ill go wit that. 1 more thing until I might be done asking questions. What should Ilook for in a good mobo? I don't know what FSB is or does lol.

[Clements]

An Athlon64 X2 @ 2.5GHz will easily beat a E2140 at stock (the E2140 is only on a par with a X2 3600+ on average at stock speeds), but the E21x0 CPUs have much more overclocking headroom (but it looks like you are not going to do that anyway).

X-bit labs - New Budget Dual-Core CPUs: Intel Pentium E2160 and Pentium E2140 (page 8) (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentium-e2160_8.html#sect1)

[runawayprisoner]

So all that being said why would you recommend such a pricey AMD mobo?

Because it's what an AMD person would want to have. It's both backward-compatible and forward-compatible. An equivalent Intel board (in terms of features... which means backward-compatibility with anything from Celeron D and forward-compatibility with Penryn or Quad-core) would cost about the same.

How well does that emulate Dreamcast, Gamecube, or PS2 if u tried? Because I really don't think much Ghz on a cpu helps much and I plan on getting a low dual core too. Also which do you think would be better. ur cpu or a 2.5ghz dual core AMD? I'm not flaming or anything I just want to know how AMD compares to intel. Cuz AMD is cheaper. But if Intel is better and close to same price ill go wit that. 1 more thing until I might be done asking questions. What should Ilook for in a good mobo? I don't know what FSB is or does lol.

DreamCast at full-speed all the time.
GameCube is still around 20% full speed... the typical framerate you can expect from any GC emu.
PS2... well, a few games will run at full speed. FFX would run at at least 30FPS and at most 75FPS.
Any PC game flies. Maybe because of my GPU...
A 2.5GHz AMD Athlon64 may be a tad bit faster... but it sure as hell cannot beat this CPU in terms of price: $51. ;) Oh ya, did I mention that I could get this baby to 3.2GHz easily... but I decided to not do that because it's doing its job quite well? I don't use emulators that much so this one is perfect at stock. I'll just let it rest in peace. :p
In a good mobo, you should look for... ehhh... some specific chipsets that work well. I am not sure about AMD... but I suppose nForce and AMD or ATI Express chipsets would work great for them. Intel will be best with any Intel chipset, although other chipsets are not that bad (avoid SiS). FSB determines which CPU you can install into your motherboard. For instance, a motherboard that supports FSB 1066MHz can run a CPU with 1066MHz FSB. FSB support on CPUs are locked, so make sure the CPU is compatible with the board (by the FSB, at least) before you buy it.

[moccor]

Hmm. I think you have convinced me to go with Intel CPU like you have. Hell, Maybe even your whole sig :) but more ram. Thx a lot for the help. Except ill go with cheaper video card. The ATI you recommended.

[runawayprisoner]

Oh ya... note: You can't get this CPU anymore. :(
On the bright side, you can now get the E2160 for around $60... and the E2180 for around $90, and they both offer more than 10% performance over this CPU I am using. Oh, and note two: the graphics card does contribute a lot to my gaming experience, so here's hoping it will do the same for you.

Edit: And by the way, the ATI I recommended (HD 3870) is actually faster than the one I have... although it's cheaper. If you want to get more out of your purchase, get a $100 ASUS motherboard, and you can start playing around with your RAM and CPU. These CPUs overclock really well.

[moccor]

What does L1 and L2 cache do? The Intel e2180 has 32+32kb L1 cache and 1mb L2 cache. But the AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ has 128+128kb L1 cache and 2x 512mb L2 cache.

[runawayprisoner]

L1 and L2 Caches are mostly for applications to store immediate (or momentary... or temporary) data. They have the highest impacts on applications that do intensive operations... namely games and image editors. Though it is to note that the Athlon64 X2 4600+ has a higher clock frequency than the E2180. All in all, their performance would be... ehhh... about the same. And if you are playing PC games, either of them is more than enough.

[moccor]

GIGABYTE GA-M61P-S3 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 ATX AMD Motherboard

Would that mobo support the HD 3870? I checked specs on mobo and it said it supported PCI Express x16 1 PCI Express x1 2
PCI Slots 4 . Hd3870 says its a PCI Express 2.0.

[fried_egg]

pci-e 2.0 is backwards compatible.

[moccor]

Ohh. All rite. I think this is enough info to make good decisions :).

[runawayprisoner]

pci-e x16 1 on the mobo means that it has 1 PCI-E 16x slot. And yeah, you can plug the HD 3870 into any PCI-E 16x slot.

[jonc2006]

What does L1 and L2 cache do? The Intel e2180 has 32+32kb L1 cache and 1mb L2 cache. But the AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ has 128+128kb L1 cache and 2x 512mb L2 cache.

they are temporary data caches, sort of like ram but alot faster. here (http://http://www.karbosguide.com/hardware/module3b2.htm) is a more technical and in-depth look at them.

[moccor]

Will all this work?
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
POWERCOLOR AX3870 512MD4-H Radeon HD 3870
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ Windsor 2.4GHz
GIGABYTE GA-M61P-S3 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 ATX AMD Motherboard

What I don't think will work is the 400watt power supply. Will I need more? I don't own the 400w yet. It'll come with a PC case i might get so it won't be a problem.

[runawayprisoner]

A 500W will be a nice one. And ya... that one seems about enough.

[moccor]

But will 400 be sufficient? I won't be buying fans and if I do won't be to many.

[runawayprisoner]

Fans are not the main factors here. The main factor is how much power your CPU and GPU eat up when they are at max load. And as far as I know, the number for them don't go any lower than 350W. You may just want to get an extra 100W (500W total) just so you can have spare power supplied to other parts of your computer.

[moccor]

Allrite. Yeah better to have the extra 100w then to try the power supply with PC and the computer not turn on or work... Ok. When Christmas comes. If I remember I'll let you's know how it works :).

[runawayprisoner]

Should work out great... provided you get the exact parts. :)

[HEERO YUY]

dual core. because there will be two cores doing multiple things and not just dumping everything on one core... so just go with the 2ghz dual core.

[james.miller]

the quality of a psu matter more than the wattage. power supplies that come with cases are crap, period. do yourself a favour and invest in a decent psu from the likes of seasonic, corsair, enermax ect

[moccor]

What does PSU do?

[runawayprisoner]

Supply the power. They are the power supply unit... *cough*

But anyway, a bad PSU will only result in system instability now and then... and maybe it will fry some of your components, but that has been quite rare ever since 1998. Nowadays, at best, a bad PSU won't let you overclock your CPU, and a good one will overclock like crazy.

[jonc2006]

What does PSU do?

you are going to need a PSU that will be efficiant enough to meet the power requirements of whatever hardware you decide on getting, as well as one that is designed with certain hardware or technology in mind (SLI for example). usually the more complex or advanced the hardware you get is, the more power it will need. some stock PSU's are somewhat decent, when they are its more by wattage, not quality. id say depending on what you plan to do would dictate if quality is going to be your main concern. for hardcore gaming or overclocking, you would want a well designed product. but simple stuff though, i guess its pretty much your call then. but dont overlook your PSU, it does make a difference and it will probably end up saving you money if you get one that will be powerful enough to supply hardware that is above the standard and made well enough to not fall apart on you either.

[Carmofin]

god this is all so confusing, i hate the times when im forced to get a new system, all this research makes my head smoke...
so what do you guys think of quadcore-cpus? im thinking of getting an Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600...

[PCXL-Fan]

If your just gaming, you won't really see any improvements at all going from dual to quad core YET. Games are just starting to use dual cores, so quad cores will be a few years in the future. If your a multitasker who likes to rip dvds, will listening to mp3s, while playing project64, while watching tv on your tv tuner you will definetly want to get a quadcore. Also if you like doing video editting or 3dmax you'll see an improvement over dual core.

[Carmofin]

thats my job, so i will. its just that usually i dont like putting my money on tehcnologies that arent ready yet, but the quadcore seems to be really cheap somehow, right now, so i really dont see the catch. as long as it doesnt have any negative influence on current games...

[jonc2006]

thats my job, so i will. its just that usually i dont like putting my money on tehcnologies that arent ready yet, but the quadcore seems to be really cheap somehow, right now, so i really dont see the catch. as long as it doesnt have any negative influence on current games...

it shouldnt. but it is going to be quite some time before you will see it being put to use. personally i would wait and see if something even better, and cheaper, comes out within the next few months or so but its your call here.

[moccor]

What is VIVO on video cards? I see some HD3870 have it and some don't.

[FLaRe85]

Video in, Video out.

[moccor]

What does that do :P . Sorry if stupid questions lol.

[FLaRe85]

Google broken? :p

Video In Video Out - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_In_Video_Out)

[moccor]

That helped a lot. And I was gonna get a converter thing to play Ps2 ect on my monitor. But if I get this, which I will when come back in stock. Unless someone knows a good place in the US that has them :)? I don't get how it works though. Do I plug the PS2 AV cables into the graphics card then turn on the computer and use a special program to bring the PS2 onto monitor?

[Master Chief]

That helped a lot. And I was gonna get a converter thing to play Ps2 ect on my monitor. But if I get this, which I will when come back in stock. Unless someone knows a good place in the US that has them :)? I don't get how it works though. Do I plug the PS2 AV cables into the graphics card then turn on the computer and use a special program to bring the PS2 onto monitor?

Correct. You can plug any device that uses those connections into the "In" connection on the cable. It's like using your computer as a TV. Chances are good you'll have Composite and S-Video In as options in this case.

And yes, you need some kind of program to do it. You also have the added benefit of video capture! There are a number of programs that can do this for you. Personally I'd recommend VirtualDub or DScaler. ATI has their own as well but I've never used it.

[moccor]

Wow that's awesome. Thanks.

[Cid Highwind]

Note, there's a difference between VIVO and AVIVO. The former supports video in from what I know, but the latter only indicates your card can do some video tricks and has TV-Out. I was hoping my X1950Pro AVIVO card would also do video in, but it doesn't :(

[PCXL-Fan]

Thats why you buy ATI's Theatre Wonder 650 its a dedicated tv tuner/videocapture card with much high quality image then All-in-Wonders or VIVO

[moccor]

I've noticed the Radeon HD 2600XT is close to HD3870 (I think) Only Differences really are no VIVO, 100mhz less core clock, and its 128bit. What does 256bit do that 128bit can't? I may be getting this instead of HD3870 because its 100$less and to me it seems close in specs to HD3870. Or am I overlooking something? Also what does streamed processes do? Because ATI cards have high and the GeForce have low. Also what would give better performance for games and emulation. 2x the same 512mb 300mhz core clock card with 1000mhz memory clock or a single 512mb 600mhz core clock 2000mhz memory clock? Sorry for all the questions. With the HD 3870s being out of stock and I want A video card for the parts I'll have on Christmas has got me looking at others. Thanks for help.

[james.miller]

no no no, the 3870 obliterates the 2600xt. take a look, more of everything





legend: config core 1:
* Stream Processors (Vertex shader/Geometry shader/Pixel shader) : Texture address unit : Texture mapping unit : Render Output unit

[moccor]

Even still looking at that chart it seems close to me lol. But I don't know much about PC specs so I'll take your word that it's worth the 100$ more :).

[runawayprisoner]

Trust me... when you own it, and you look back at the HD2600, you will thank god that you have gotten the HD3870 instead. :)

[StriderVM]

Evidence (Seems like Tomshardware finally updated their VGA charts.) :

VGA Charts 2007 | Tom's Hardware (http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=1060&model2=858&chart=318)

Radeon 3870 = 6th Place
Radeon 2600XT gDDR4 = Too far (30+)

As for Stream Processorsm, it's hard to explain, but let's just pretent it's the processors in the video card. :P

Sadly, more processors doesn't mean it's faster. I mean, just look at the Pentium 4, it got to speeds up to 3.6Ghz, but a Core2Duo E4300 (That only runs on 1.8Ghz) is still faster.

[moccor]

As I was looking for a different card that compares to the HD 3870 which still out of stock... I noticed they have an operating systems supported spec at newegg. Will the HD 3870 work with Windows XP Pro x64? I wants to be able to use the Dolphin Gamecube emulator.
Also could anyone please find me a power supply that would work with

G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
POWERCOLOR AX3870 512MD4-H Radeon HD 3870
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ Windsor 2.4GHz
GIGABYTE GA-M61P-S3 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 ATX AMD Motherboard

I was reading the reviews on the case I was gonna get that came with a power supply. I know someone said not to get it before in this topic :P But I read a review that said something like "Nice power supply wattage but it's a no-name. Good if you want to take your chances" Well I don't wanna take my chance lol. Or someone could tell me how man 4pin w/es or 6pin things. <-- Obviously I know nothing about power supply's. I only need a 500watt. I'd rather it be 40USD or lower. Thanks a lot.
I see some 20$ Sunbeam 580watt. I'd like it to be a trusted brand. I don't know what brands are bad or good. Except a few.

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3400620AS 400GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive. Im pretty sure these are the kinds of hard drives I'm using. If it matters.

Edit : Would this work? Newegg.com - APEVIA ATX-CW500WP4 ATX 500W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, CSA, TUV, CE - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817148027)

[runawayprisoner]

Sadly, more processors doesn't mean it's faster. I mean, just look at the Pentium 4, it got to speeds up to 3.6Ghz, but a Core2Duo E4300 (That only runs on 1.8Ghz) is still faster.

E4300 has two cores operating at 1.8GHz each... :p

Anyway, the HD3870 will run in XP 64-bit. Provided there are drivers for it in XP 64-bit.

[Ridzuanteror]

Can anyone tell me which is better, a 8800GT or a HD3870, as well as some benchmark

[skoreanime]

Google it? There's a lot of reviews for the 8800GT and HD3870. Don't be lazy :p.

[Master Chief]

Can anyone tell me which is better, a 8800GT or a HD3870, as well as some benchmark

The 8800GT. Every benchmark I've seen shows it performing substantially better. Although, the HD3870 has a nice price/performance ratio if you can find it for the not jacked up price (same thing with the 8800GT).

Remember, Newegg isn't the only computer store out there. I got my 8800GT off of MWAVE.

[moccor]

Product Details (http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=AA72372&RSKU=AA72372)
289.99 and out of stock. I'll stick with Newegg :)

Btw I know this is asking a lot but would this power supply work with that setup?
Newegg.com - APEVIA ATX-CW500WP4 ATX 500W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, CSA, TUV, CE - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817148027)

I don't wanna take chances of it not having enough connectors or the rite ones.
Thanks. If not I'll check it over and over to be sure for myself :P

[3x3cUt0r]

APEVIA? there are better brands out there.

[fivefeet8]

What does 256bit do that 128bit can't?

256bit transfers twice as much data per clock as 128bit. In terms of memory bandwidth, it offers twice the amount of memory bandwidth compared to 128bit at the same clocks. More memory bandwidth generally means more performance at higher resolutions, Anti Aliasing, and floating point filtering/blending HDR.


Also what does streamed processes do? Because ATI cards have high and the GeForce have low.

Stream processors are simply the terms used to describe the MATH processors available on video cards. Generally, the more you have of these processors, the more math calculations it can do per clock. In this case though, there are other architectural factors to take into account which ultimately decides the better performer. Most of which would take an entire article to write about and which has been written on various hardware review sites already. Games are also never 100% math dependant.


Also what would give better performance for games and emulation.


That's a hard question to answer in definite terms. Generally though, the 8800gt performs better all around.

[moccor]

Ok it wasn't even hard to figure out if a power supply had the rite cables to connect the stuff, I just didn't try cuz thought i couldn't :P.

But 1thing the specs doesn't tell me is if the PCIe 6-pin power connector is 75watts. Any way of knowing by looking at it or maybe something i missed?

Newegg.com - XION XON-500F8X2-201 ATX Ver2.2 500W Power Supply 100 – 120Vac / 200 – 240Vac UL, CE, CB, CSA, FCC, TUV, Demko, Nemko, SEMCO - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817190011)

[moccor]

I'm done waiting for an HD 3870. I decided to go with NVIDIA too. And of course I need some opinions. How well does this card do with emulation and new games like Crysis and UT3?
XFX PVT84JUDD3 GeForce 8600GT XXX 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card

[refraction]

seriously, if youre gonna buy a powersupply, stay away from too cheap unknown makes like that.

You are better off getting something like this
Newegg.com - OCZ StealthXStream OCZ500SXS ATX12V / EPS12V 500W Power Supply 100 - 240 V - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341012)

8600 wont do very well at all, if it was for crysis youd be wasting your time. if you want cheap and effective, your best bet is an 8800GT

[moccor]

I know this is a 256mb 8800GT. But how would it compare to the HD 3870?
Newegg.com - XFX PVT88PUDF4 GeForce 8800GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150264)
I checked that toms hardware link and the 256mb isn't on there. I don't know if I'll get the HD 3870 because of bad reviews for both Diamond and Sapphire. I don't want the card to last a month. Especially since the heater is making everything hot in this house.

Edit : nevermind I'm probably go with 512 for the extra 60$.

[StriderVM]

I'm about 75% :p sure that the Radeon 3870 beats the 8800GT 256MB.

While the 512MB Version of 3850 trades hits with the 8800GT 256MB.

And finally, the 256MB Version 3850 is beaten by the 8800GT 256MB. :)

Although I finally find it wierd that 3870's are overheating..... I thought it was the 8800GT that has worse heat issues.......

[Cid Highwind]

256 MB sounds like it will horribly cripple a card of that caliber. With textures getting larger and larger, resolutions becoming higher, and HDR and AA being used more often than not, 512MB isn't a luxury anymore.

Expect the 3870 to be faster in about every single game that needs the memory, which probably is about any game to be released in the future.

[moccor]

So the HD3870 will be better then the 8800GT when games are more compatible with it's specs?

[Cid Highwind]

XFX GeForce 8800 GT 256MB XXX Review (http://firingsquad.com/hardware/xfx_geforce_8800_gt_256mb_xxx_review/page9.asp)

Let the numbers do the talking. Mind, I don't have time to look up more, but from what I know Firingsquad has a good reputation. They're pretty much tied, but like Firingsquad concluded with 4xAA, higher resolutions and bigger textures the memory will be the bottleneck.

Personally I'd pick the Radeon for that very reason. I could stand a slightly lower framerate on average (just a couple of frames anyway), but if one game would refuse to play at my preferred settings just because of the lack of memory I'd regret it. But it's your decision, and I'd definitely wait before some others have expressed their opinions. They are better informed than I am :)

Good luck with your decision anyway.

[moccor]

It's so hard to choose when they both have advantages and disadvantages. I don't really care about AA though so I think HD 3870 would be better choice if what your saying about the memory is true. I mean if I have enough fps in a game I'll turn change the resolution so that I can see more of what's going on before I turn up AA or texture quality. But Sapphire and Diamond both have people saying they were screwed over with their warranty's or Diamond products suck all together. You think that if I don't overclock the card I should have no problems at all with sufficient cooling? Other then maybe a defect.

[runawayprisoner]

If you don't overclock, you shouldn't have any problem. And the 256MB 8800GT is just... not enough for next-gen games. Current-gen maybe... but not next-gen.

[Squall-Leonhart]

tweak your system properly and 256mb will not be a limit at all. its not like you need 8xAA at 1600x1200....

[runawayprisoner]

tweak your system properly and 256mb will not be a limit at all. its not like you need 8xAA at 1600x1200....

Try Crysis @ Very High and you will see that the res doesn't matter... :p 256MB is just not enough anymore, not for high-res textures.

[moccor]

Ok I've had the new PC since Christmas. It doesn't have what are in these posts because my Hard Drive kinda got formatted by accident. Not by me though :P (200gb of games deleted in 5seconds?). This computer is perfect for everything that I do. I still plan on getting a HD 3870 to crossfire it with this card :). I know I didn't want to overclock but this PC runs cool and that is with a 120mm and 92mm fan spot not used. Will fill those later. I think letting it run from about 3pm-12pm with me playing games whenever, my cpu reached top 41 degrees Celsius. I've Google a lot on overclocking and how to do it but don't think i learned enough to do it. All this increase this and lower this, and if that don't work increase this but be careful lol. Anybody have a cpu around my version that knows a good config? Also I've tried to increase the fan speed on my video card because it isn't even close to annoying me. Allthough some people were annoyed by it at stock on newegg. I used rivatuner and I'm pretty sure increasing the fan speed made it 10degress Celsius hotter... Is there a reason for that?

[runawayprisoner]

Mmm... it's in your signature? :) If that's so, I won't be so sure... if you can crossfire an HD3870 with a 2600XT. That and you don't need to overclock the CPU for anything at all... or actually, it won't even matter... much.

[moccor]

Would a motherboard with PCI-E slot in x8 mode be bottlenecking a x16 video card?

And just to see what would happen I raised FBS 5mhz and it added .04mhz and 3degress to everything in the PC :O . Not worth it IMO :P . Doesn't matter to me weather I have full speed with PS2 emulation. I have 4 PS2s... 2 are modded with HDs :) . I can wait until a faster version is out.

[Cid Highwind]

A PCI-e x8 slot won't bottleneck a 2600XT, so no worries about that. And I think two of those cards can be used together, but I'm not certain about it. I'm still on AGP anyway so I never worried about that :p

[gotmilk70]

In Nvidia SLI, you need the same graphics cards. That also holds true for Crossfire. I recently upgraded to an Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 and never been happier. My previous processor was an AMD athlon 3800+ AM2 (Windsor core) chip. I got it stable at 2.4-2.5GHZ. The Windsor lineup of the x2's give off a lot of heat, so they are not so great oc'ers. with my old system I got FFX to run mostly full speed. (except intro and shiva summoning.) I had an Asus M2N-SLI deluxe motherboard and 2x1GB Corsair XMS2 ddr2 ram @ 800mhz 4-4-4-12 timing. Of course I had to downgrade the mem speed to 667mhz and the ht freq to 4x but it works fine. I have seen people with a 3600+ (1.9ghz stock Brizbane core) reach 3.1ghz on their oc. Brizbanes have 65nm process so they dissipate less heat. Therefore oc better then Windsor. I am looking to sell my old cpu and mobo to help cope with the money I spent on the q6700. My old machine got me by for a long time. My old board got a lot of features on it and had great oc ability. However my new one is a pos oc'er and its just to hold out till i get the striker or a P35 board. If you have questions, please ask.

[skoreanime]

Hmmm, I thought the changes they made to Xfire in the past year got rid of the whole needing identical cards to run.

[StriderVM]

Well, the one I remember is that, they still need to have identical cards (Same series, say 7600GS and 7600GT?) . HOWEVER. You can use Crossfire WITHOUT any performance penalties unlike with NVidia cards, say, you have a Radeon 3850 and 3870. You can crossfire the two without the 3870 lowering it's speed to match the 3850. It now seems to work independently to each other.