128-bit

[artiezappa]

I'm sure this question has a simple answer, but I don't know it. Why are PCs just now using 64-bit processors when a console as old as the PS2 had a 128-bit processor? It seems to me that PC power is always ahead of console power except in this one aspect. Does this mean that PSCX2 will never truly run efficiently until PCs have 128-bit processors? Thanks.

[Federelli]

Because memory is hast not yet been able so scale as fast as processors, besides memory would cost so much, it's just not worth it, not yet anyway.

[tkSteveFOX]

The emotion engine is a 128bit CPU but its clocked at 293-4 mhz so compare that with a 64bit cpu that has 2-3 ghz and the results are in.Also sony said that the EE is about three times faster than the Pentium III CPU but thats not really true and you can`t even compare a console CPU to a PC one.The console gpu`s are r.i.s.c cpu-s wich mean that they have limited instruction sets just for gaming and the PC cpu has so much newer instruction sets that it doesnt need a 128 bit integer.Actually the EE CPU has a performance of a standart P4 at about 1.6-7 ghz.The PS2 graphics card is really a marvel for it`s time with the huge 2560bits(compared that modern graphic cards have a 384bit MI(f.i Geforce 8800GTX)) of memory interface but with only 2-3 mb ram for textures(compared to the 512 mb of ram that even the midrange GPU`s have now)so you get a lot that and a little of this.Actually the PS2 would have died ages ago if it werent for the Bump Mapping , Particle and Lightning effects that the CPU can emulate next to that you can never see a PS2 game with good textures there always awfull.A modern PC wich costs about 600 dollars is about twice as fast as a PS2.The PS2 has been holding the graphics revolution for far too long now.I don`t care what people say games like SHadow of the Collosus that people who own a PS2 will say look amzing a closer look and you see a lot of dust effects and particles that cover the Ugly character models and textures.So be safe the PS2 was outdated long ago with the release of the Radeon 9700pro three years ago.

[refraction]

the PS2 has 128bit registers, but they arent accessed at 128bit a time, rather 32bit or 64bit at a time, which can be done with MMX and SSE

[Jacksoft]

I think because with this method console can work good at low frequency... (In facts PS2 is 128-bit CPU @ 300~MHz, or PSX 32-bit @ 33~MHz).
And consoles don't have an OS wich degree the machine performance, the only OS is the BIOS, and the Games have alredy the library/files/ecc wich they need (on the Optical Disc) for work good, and also the games are produced for work perfect on that machine.
Conclusion, the console is made only for that operation, play videogames, PC all.

[artiezappa]

Wow. Thanks for the quick replies. Not only that, most of them are pretty easy to understand. That's why you guys run the forum and not me. Thanks again.

[tkSteveFOX]

The OS is not holding the PC down so much.The problem is that the ps2 has one specs and thats it and the PC has 2 manufacturares of CPU`s four of GPU`s and many other`s for Mainboards Hard drives and optical devices so trying to coope with every single PC made is really a hard work.As for the Bios each hardware has it`s own bios wich can be updated the PS2 has one universal bios becaouse the components are bilt in and cannot be upgraded.And i still stand that sony has OC the PS2 for the last 2 years with the new bioses or files that are in the games.For instance i`ve seen games on the DC that look far better than reacent games for the PS2.Sony paid allot for sega to retire from the hardware bis and focus on software.And in mind is that the DC is 3 years older than the PS2.Why did you think that sega focused almost all of it`s games to the PS2?For me the DC was a better system or atleast equal to the PS2.But what can you do sony forbidded game makers to make games for the DC and unfairly ran SEGA out of buissnes.

I think because with this method console can work good at low frequency... (In facts PS2 is 128-bit CPU @ 300~MHz, or PSX 32-bit @ 33~MHz).
And consoles don't have an OS wich degree the machine performance, the only OS is the BIOS, and the Games have alredy the library/files/ecc wich they need (on the Optical Disc) for work good, and also the games are produced for work perfect on that machine.
Conclusion, the console is made only for that operation, play videogames, PC all.

If what you say is true than why are next gen consoles so much like the PC play movies,internet,photoedit if you`re correct than that will degrade the system`s performance.

[CellDivider]

the PS2 has 128bit registers, but they arent accessed at 128bit a time, rather 32bit or 64bit at a time, which can be done with MMX and SSE

Let's say every register and operation on a modern Pentium/Amd CPU had a bandwidth of 128 bit. Would a 300 Mhz version of that CPU be able to emulate the Emotion Engine at full speed? Or does the Emotion Engine use additional stuff (like special operations made for gaming) to give more performance?

[Barius]

Or does the Emotion Engine use additional stuff (like special operations made for gaming) to give more performance?

Yes, absolutely. If the EE was not optimized for gaming it wouldn't make any sense to use it.

[StriderVM]

Well, I don't think it could, because EMULATION of a hardware requires a different processing power.

PC can't really play PS2 games because of hardware and software differences. Which results in a huge need for processing power.

[refraction]

Let's say every register and operation on a modern Pentium/Amd CPU had a bandwidth of 128 bit. Would a 300 Mhz version of that CPU be able to emulate the Emotion Engine at full speed? Or does the Emotion Engine use additional stuff (like special operations made for gaming) to give more performance?

as StriderVM said, emulation and hardware requires different processing power.

for example remember in the days of quake and unreal? what was faster, directx/opengl (cant remember what it had :P) or software mode? remembering directx/opengl is done on gfx hardware, software is processed on the cpu, well an emulator is like 1 massive software mode, unless the emulator uses HLE, which isnt really possible for the PS2. it consumes a lot of time and processing power, which we can only offload a bit onto the gfx card, the rest still has to be done on-chip

[tkSteveFOX]

As i said before all console CPU`s are R.I.S.C cpu`s(Reduced Instruction Set Computing)wich in lamen`s terms means that all the unnecasery instructions that don`t affect gaming or DVD playback have been cut of and that boosts the performance of the CPU.Also the bond between Ram CPu and GPU is far greater than on a normal PC they communicate much faster than the PC due to no software differance.They act like one component not like on the PC system`s.

[CellDivider]

it consumes a lot of time and processing power, which we can only offload a bit onto the gfx card, the rest still has to be done on-chip

What exactly is the problem of graphics emulation? That the emotion engine does vertex-processing itself and the GPU only does rasterizing?