Windows 98 vs Windows Me

[hankhoser]

i am the proud :rolleyes: owner of the glorious windows me os...:emb:
i decided to introduce this poll to kick off a debate on which os of the two is better and why as i am strongly considering downgrading.

Anyway, time to cast my vote!

[CDBuRnOuT]

They both suck.

[LanGaidin]

First of all, you have 3 OS's listed there, not 2. 98SE added quite a bit of bloat to 98. Also, CD is right... Once you try Win2k, there is definitely no going back!

[hankhoser]

what are the main 'bloaty' differences between 98 and 98se - just curious, really.

[hankhoser]

the reason i chose these os's is i am a frequent DOS mose user :emb: and i preffered win98 version 1 when i could restart the system and boot into real mode (yes, i did have it once). then my motherboard died and along with a complete tower upgrade on my old pc i got window me preinstalled on my new hard drive...:(

[Betamax]

Curiousity. What are you using in dos that you can't do from a prompt window running at running fullscreen :confused: ? BTW I agree with LanGaidin. Win 2k all the way!

[bobotns]

Win Me sucks! I mean, there isn't enough drivers, the DOS mode is limited and it's heavier than Win 98.
=> I stay by Win 98 SE (also when Win XP comes!)

[hankhoser]

WinMe has some kind of crappy 'dos emulation' for running dos real mode progs in windows but it doesnt work on all programs (games mostly)

i've heard they will do something similar for running them in xp.

[CDBuRnOuT]

WinMe has NO form of DOS emulation, DOS is just 'hidden'
Now, Win2K and XP, those have DOS emulation.

There's a real-mode DOS patch for it...try http://www.the-ctrl-alt-del.com

[hankhoser]

u r right about the dos patch CD, but it tends to create file config errors and problems (mainly with autoexec.bat and config.sys) and old legacy dos mode drivers - the cd-rom and sound card - were being loaded in windows instead of the 32-bit ones.:(

as a result of this, my cd-rom has a yellow errror over it in Device Manager and i've had to disable my onboard sound in favour of my yamaha ds-xg card.

after i applied the patch, it would not boot up into windows at the 'boot to dos or windows' menu - just a flahing cursor at the top-left corner of the screen...

maybe its because i have a non-american copy of ME?:confused:

[Rargh]

Honestly....I prefer win98 than SE....

There are less protections......

[cluthu]

>Once you try Win2k, there is definitely no going back!
I completely agree. The problem being that quite a few companies seem to be of the belief that since you're using a 'business class' OS you don't deserve to have drivers for their products. I've seen a great many products that could very easlily provide support for Win2k but don't (game controllers and printers, but they're not the only culprits).

With DirectX having a Win98 controller driver should mean you automatically have one for 2000. That's one of DirectX's goals, to create a framework where devices could be put in any sort of DirectX supporting machine and work correctly. Of course, I have an unused Gravis gamepad that won't let me reconfigure its buttons since the company that created it seems to feel they know more about my choice in OS than I do.

My theroy this this: companies just want to get away with sloppy programming and generally don't care about their customers. If they were at all concerned about them they'd submit their drivers to Microsoft for testing and become part of the WHQL. I'm not about to say that M$ is a good company, but I can't ever think of a time when a certified driver has given me any sort of problem. Hell, even drivers that are being *considered* for certification tend to work better.

It just seems to me that given that XP is based on NT technology alot of said companies are going to have some problems when their once happy customers call and demand that some new device they purchaced work with their previously "unsupported, business" OS (yes, I know that XP is supposed to have a compatablity layer, but I'm sure we all know that XP will probably only work best with 'native' (read: NT) drivers)

Hehe, sorry about my little rant, but after a morning of looking for Win2k support by default (that is, not added as an afterthought) I'm a bit upset with hardware vendors on the whole.

[CDBuRnOuT]

I completely agree.

Companies who refuse to support NT/2000 right now are going to the be ****ed when XP hits, no matter how crappy of an OS it is.

[Badaro]

Originally posted by cluthu
>It just seems to me that given that XP is based on NT technology alot of said companies are going to have some problems when their once happy customers call and demand that some new device they purchaced work with their previously "unsupported, business" OS (yes, I know that XP is supposed to have a compatablity layer, but I'm sure we all know that XP will probably only work best with 'native' (read: NT) drivers)


The WinXP compatibility mode is only for applications, not drivers.

Poorly written drivers are one of the main reasons the Win9x series is so unstable.

[]s Badaro

[SatanC]

I'm running on a Xp beta right now (beta 2) and its more stable than win Me/98se/98. It only crashed once (in three weeks) and its fully compatible with every program/hardware i tried. In its final version, it'll kick some major @$$ !!

[hankhoser]

i've seen some pretty high minimum specs for running the beta2 of xp. will they be any lower in the final version or any different at all? i won't want to run a slow operating system, no matter how stable it is.

[cluthu]

>Poorly written drivers are one of the main reasons the Win9x
>series is so unstable.
And poorly written drivers are the reason companies continue to write for Win9x while eschewing Win2k. Since they're not willing to make an effort at efficient code that fits MS' specs, they simply don't bother with it.

>i've seen some pretty high minimum specs for running the beta2
>of xp
Everything I've read has stated that the specs of an XP system are going to be quite high and it's actually Microsoft's plan not to offer alot of Win9x->XP upgrades, but to get people to buy all new computers to run it.

If you're not aware, there's also quite a bit of controversy regarding some privacy and "fair use" issues with XP. Namely, to register you have to provide MS with your key by phone before it becomes usable (there's a delay, I've heard, where it'll work. But after that time is up, it'll fail to boot) and they've limited their MP3 encoder to support only low bit rates, favoring instead to support WMA fully, seeing as how MS is quite willing to bend over for the RIAA (WMA supports digital use management, which is just another word for Big Brother-ware, so far as I'm concerned). Of interest to PSX emu writers is the fact that I've heard direct reads via the CD-Rom driver will no longer be supported, since direct reads are used by audio rippers to convert CDs into MP3s. Please note that the above is just what I've been told by some fairly reputable sources, but, as with anything you see on the Internet, please take it with a grain of salt.

[SatanC]

i'm running xp on a P3 558, with 256 megs of ram. It fast enough. Haven't noticed any difference in speed if i compare with other os. Maybe a bit faster.
And for the privacy thing, it easy to get by, there are some cracks that can remove those things...

[JeremyAnderson]

After windows I am thinking about going back to DOS...

[Ryos]

>But after that time is up, it'll fail to boot) and they've limited their
>MP3 encoder to support only low bit rates, favoring instead to
>support WMA fully, seeing as how MS is quite willing to bend over
>for the RIAA (WMA supports digital use management, which is
>just another word for Big Brother-ware, so far as I'm concerned).

But they're really doing it because WMA is better than MP3 quality! Heh, you know, like Pintos are better than Mustangs. :D

[Betamax]

Personally I think I'll stick to winamp for encoing Mp3s if this is the case

[CDBuRnOuT]

Winamp decodes, not encodes...

[Betamax]

You can download an encoder plugin for winamp from their website. You need a codec such as radiums however to use it. The addresses are:

Mp3 output plugin

http://www.winamp.com/plugins/detail.jhtml?componentFlag=P&componentId=177

Radium codec

http://www.riphelp.com/downloads/radium_codec.html

[CDBuRnOuT]

bleh, EAC + LAME owns the **** out of that.

[Betamax]

eh? :wtf:

It works rather well actually. If winamp is setup to autorun cds you can convert multiple cds to mp3 by simply inserting the cd. Autorun kicks in and winamp encodes it mp3. To do another cd just change the disk. I don't see how this is "lame". I use the all the time.

[hankhoser]

betamax, LAME is an mp3 encoder.

you can either use the dll file of it on its own or the optional .exe to encode files.

i personally use the dll file with the latest version of audiograbber for encoding - even if i do have winamp.

[Betamax]

Ok sorry about that.:emb:

[CDBuRnOuT]

L.A.M.E.
LAME Ain't an MP3 Encoder.

Gotta love GNU-style names ;)

EAC, Exact Audio Copy...
Great Ripping tool ;)

LAME - www.mp3dev.org
EAC - www.exactaudiocopy.de

[cluthu]

>Personally I think I'll stick to winamp for encoing Mp3s if this is the
>case
There was a rumor that WinXP was going to stop the execution of alternate audio playing applications. While I don't know if there's any validity to it, I'm sure we all know perfectly well that within a few weeks (days?) of XP's release there'll be a workaround. What I found funny is the fact that M$ seems to believe that people are going to happily migrate to Windows Media Player to do their ripping/encoding. Perhaps they should focus on making Media Player less of a tremendous pig before deciding on making it the "standard" for everyone ;)

>But they're really doing it because WMA is better than MP3
>quality!
Well, just to play Devil's Advocate :goes off and plays pinball: for a minute, WMA does tend to be smaller than an MP3 of the same song/clip/whatever. Of course, in saving space you also get oh-so-wonderful digital rights management and lack of cross-platform compatablity. If anyone's really interested in saving some space, I'd suggest checking out Ogg Vorbits, an open source attempt to create a royalty free audio format with superior compression.

[campaign2016]

Originally posted by cluthu

There was a rumor that WinXP was going to stop the execution of alternate audio playing applications.


If this rumor is true, Microsoft will get a law-suit slapped on it so fast it wont be funny. Probably quite similar to the anti-trust suit it had not to long ago. I mean, who heard of an OS that wont allow software written for it to be executed.

[Betamax]

Yep that like winxp refusing to run netscape 6 'cos "in their option" you should use Ie6 as it is superior. (Actually I think they are both much of a muchness... or at least when they are finished. Ps I know that Ns 6 is actually finished but it is based on mozillas code which is far from being finished)

[Raziel]

Originally posted by cluthu
>There was a rumor that WinXP was going to stop the execution of alternate audio playing applications.

It's partly true,infact you won't be able to use microsoft's progies to encode mp3 but you'll still be able to use other ones like winamp or Nero(yes it does encode mp3).
Bye.

[campaign2016]

Originally posted by Betamax
Yep that like winxp refusing to run netscape 6 'cos "in their option" you should use Ie6 as it is superior. (Actually I think they are both much of a muchness... or at least when they are finished. Ps I know that Ns 6 is actually finished but it is based on mozillas code which is far from being finished)

i had NS6 but i couldnt stand the style and lay out of it
in fact, thats what made me go back to IE after being a devout NS user for years

[Ryos]

Besides, I fail to see why some people still opt for the Netscape line just to avoid using M$'s IE browser because it's made by M$. While that may have been an interesting idea earlier, now Netscape is owned by AOL. So basically it's just exchanging one product made by one company that is the root of all evil to another company that is the root of all evil (although with AOL, said evil has an intellect a hundred points lower or so on average per person).

[Rargh]

:D

That was a good one Ryos!

:D :D

[CDBuRnOuT]

And?

I use Mozilla because it ****s IE in the arse, not because it's non-M$.

I could care less who owns a product generally, I'm more concerned with it's quality...

[Ryos]

Mozilla's much better. But then again, that wasn't my point...

[CDBuRnOuT]

Was just an expression of my opinion =P

[hankhoser]

i never knew how much attention this thread would get!;)

[Ryos]

We all love (hate?) to talk about Microsoft. It was only inevitable we'd look at this thread. :)

[hankhoser]

i felt the need to write this thread basically because i am pissed off with ME right now - wont be long before another reformat of my hard drive is due :eyes:
i will have to keep a look out for win2000 for a fair price soon though, as i will not be wanting to go for XP - a system that is a 'hybrid' of 2000 and ME and has far too many extras that i will ever use.
im too impatient to learn the new interface, too;)

anyway, formatting the drive clean for 2k will be no prob - good job i have 2 hard drives!:D

[Rargh]

anyone knows how much Win2k is taking place on the hard-drive?
(i mean the general setup)
i m going to buy it soon :D
so i wanted to know if i needed a new hard drive or doing another
secondary drive on my beloved 20gb one (i want to keep win98 too)

thx

[Betamax]

My current setup is a dual boot setup like the one that you mentioned. It will fit fine onto a 20Gb drive (as this is the size that I have) mind you, I have this so that I can run games that are not compatible with win2k. That said I only have one at the mom ( still waiting for the patch that fixes the crashes on black and white).

Ps download sp1 when you get win 2k. It adds an early version of the "win 98 compatiblity mode" to the OS. This gets most games running.

[CDBuRnOuT]

Win2K is a bit over 500MB by default, but you can easily slim that down..

[hankhoser]

...slim it down?:confused:

[Rargh]

Thanks for answering.
But I won t play on win2k.
thx anyway ;)

if it is just 500mb it s very fine tough

[campaign2016]

Originally posted by hankhoser
...slim it down?:confused:

yeah by not installing all the components

dont play solitare or mine sweeper?
dont use the handicap accessability?
dont use all the wall paper and sound set ups?

just install what is needed and wanted and nothing else

[hankhoser]

i didn't know u could install win2k like that. on w98 and ME you can uninstall certain win setups e.g. accessibility from add/remove programs in control panel - it doesen't let u custom install the OS though.
thanks for the info!

[CDBuRnOuT]

uhuh.

[hankhoser]

iteresting poll results if they're both as bad as each other...;)

[Rargh]

Originally posted by hankhoser
iteresting poll results if they're both as bad as each other...;)

Win ME solved some bugs of win98................:)
and added more bugs too.............................:(

[hankhoser]

i wonder when the first service pack for ME will come out?

(please dont tell me i need to wait until the time of xp's release...):(

[CDBuRnOuT]

BTW, Windows 2000 Service Pack 2 released...

grab it here:
http://msvaus.www.conxion.com/download/win2000platform/sp/sp2/nt5/en-us/w2ksp2.exe

[cluthu]

>it doesen't let u custom install the OS though
It does...technically. There's a way you can define a custom setup by defining an INF file that's read when you run setup, but to be quite honest, I've never really bothered to do as much, given that the "extras" it adds don't take up all that much space. I'd imagine that doing a search for a "hands free" or "enterprise" install of 2k might yield some results, as that capability was added mostly for the IT departments of businesses doing mass installs.

[cluthu]

>BTW, Windows 2000 Service Pack 2 released...
Wow, I totally missed that one ;) Thanks for the info CDBuRnOuT.

For people residing in the US that'd like SP2, go to
http://download.microsoft.com/download/win2000platform/sp/sp2/nt5/en-us/w2ksp2.exe

[Betamax]

How'd the heck did you find that out? They haven't even updated their web site yet! Filesize 106 MB ETA 11 Hours. I hate 56K modems. You don't know the link for the express download do ya? Damned if I can find it.

[cluthu]

>How'd the heck did you find that out?
Though I can't speak for CDBuRnOuT, BetaNews (www.betanews.com) is always the first place I look when I learn of new software patches/bugfixes.

[CDBuRnOuT]

I used my magic powers :D

[Betamax]

Cheers for the link.:cool:

[CDBuRnOuT]

np, tis better to share sometimes, rather to squander.

Not to mention the URL was all over the net within an hour of pasting that =P