Detonators 51.75 available at.....

[Raziel]

www.3dchipset.com
but the site is currently being hammered :p

[Raziel]

Update, found a mirror :)
http://www.m3dzone.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2649

[Kurbster]

damn...the mirror is getting hammered too. I'm only getting a top speed at around 7kbs, and yet so little time in my lunch break -__-

[Raziel]

Did a test with Aquamark3 (released today too), there's definitly an increase in speed, as for IQ (Image Quality), there's no noticeable loss. (compared to dets 45.33)

[Raziel]

Furthered my testing, Pete's OGL 2 very high X option now works :) (now you can officialy say that this only works on nVidia cards)

[Shin_Gouki]

... there's definitly an increase in speed, as for IQ (Image Quality), there's no noticeable loss. (compared to dets 45.33)

some freaks on 3dcenter say it goes into wrong direction...(making games faster, by decreasing image quality)
want do think fps over image quality?
(but the thing with petes OGL 2 is definetly cool ! ) :thumb:

wbr Shin Gouki

[Raziel]

Well, one problem appeared though, it seems nVidia once again changed its refresh rate handling method, making this new drivers incompatible with nvrefreshtool :(

[Ali]

want do think fps over image quality?
I don't usually mind having quality, but when it comes to fps below 30, I am willing to sacrifise the image quality.

[Raziel]

Hmm, fiddled with refresh rates thanks to the help of nvhardpage, not as easy to use as nvrefreshtool, but does the job :)

[Phoenix]

Dammit, this is good Raziel, have you used the build-in D3D override refresh options of the drivers?? they do the job also.
These drivers seem to be a good get. I'm downloading them :) :)

[Yeloazndevil]

I hope I can use Pete's OGL2 plug-in w/o probs :p

[Clements]

I love the new options (particularly the res. options) in these detonators, and they have a much cleaner look to them.

[Raziel]

Hmm, took a look at your sig [Clements], like Illusion of Gaia ? :)

[Clements]

Why, of course! One of my favourites! :)

Oh, and handily, I'll be upgrading my comp with a GeForceFX, so I should be able to benefit from these dets soon. I have the Dawn demo installed in preparation even though I can't run the thing now!

[Yeloazndevil]

okay tried these drivers, Pete's OGL2 plug-in still gets a error message

[fivefeet8]

Preliminary testing of 51.75's:

NFShp2 - noticeably increased FPS at 1280x1024 4xS, 8xAF-quality. Wow! 50-70fps now!!
Silent Hill 2 - Max options with no slowdown at 1280x1024 4xS, 8xAF-quality.

These drivers are defineately looking good. I'm gonna test with PSx/N64 emus soon. But so far, everything looks positive. No image quality loss as far as I can see in the games' I'm playing. But speed increases across the board. I've been hearing some reports of bugs so, I'd make a restore point before installing these drivers. But so far, I haven't encountered any problems. One thing I've also notice is that the FSAA quality have improved with these drivers. 4xS FSAA never looked so good. There is also some more options to mess with, but check the d3d options. It's got a new "performance graph" option. This option somehow creates a performance graph that overlays the game your playing. I am not quite sure what all the lines mean though. There are a few different colored lines that charts the performance.

Oh yeah, my Aquamark3 score is 48000+ with these drivers and 41000+ with the Omega 45.23's. There is a little image quality loss, but it's almost unoticeable with the benchmark running.

I also noticed that AF quality seems to have increased as well. Hopefully, the bugs I've been hearing from other users will be fixed by the time the these drivers are officially released..

[hushypushy]

hey, clements, your sig says you are going to get a 256 mb FX5600.

let me forewarn you: if you are getting a FX5600....get the FX5600u which is the 128 mb version.

i have the 256 mb one...and man i wish i had the 128 mb Ultra

[Cylinder]

Believe it or not, my freakin GF3 went from like 12,400ish to 13,500ish at slower clocks from these drivers, and I never noticed any change in detail. Pushed it up to 225/515 I got 14.5k, not to shabby I suppose. Of course, that really only translates to about 2-4 FPS across the board in the tests from the 43's I was usuing. I was one of the few that had the flicker problem oddly enough, so I steared clear of the 45's.

Gonna see if I can bust 15k tonight, lol. Weeee!

[grahf]

Preliminary testing of 51.75's:

NFShp2 - noticeably increased FPS at 1280x1024 4xS, 8xAF-quality. Wow! 50-70fps now!!
Silent Hill 2 - Max options with no slowdown at 1280x1024 4xS, 8xAF-quality.

These drivers are defineately looking good. I'm gonna test with PSx/N64 emus soon. But so far, everything looks positive. No image quality loss as far as I can see in the games' I'm playing. But speed increases across the board. I've been hearing some reports of bugs so, I'd make a restore point before installing these drivers. But so far, I haven't encountered any problems. One thing I've also notice is that the FSAA quality have improved with these drivers. 4xS FSAA never looked so good. There is also some more options to mess with, but check the d3d options. It's got a new "performance graph" option. This option somehow creates a performance graph that overlays the game your playing. I am not quite sure what all the lines mean though. There are a few different colored lines that charts the performance.

Oh yeah, my Aquamark3 score is 48000+ with these drivers and 41000+ with the Omega 45.23's. There is a little image quality loss, but it's almost unoticeable with the benchmark running.

I also noticed that AF quality seems to have increased as well. Hopefully, the bugs I've been hearing from other users will be fixed by the time the these drivers are officially released..

So these drivers have increase speed and barely noticeable i/q loss? Hm that's quite a contradiction from what those news sites have been reporting. Damn maybe everyone should stop riding nvidia's ass because of some minor i/q loss issue.

[Kurbster]

I noticed these drivers to be a little bit more faster than the other ones. I was playing Tribes 2 (with normal options) a bit faster now (probably about 5-10fps) What do you expect from a GeForce2? :p

[Kane]

So these drivers have increase speed and barely noticeable i/q loss? Hm that's quite a contradiction from what those news sites have been reporting. Damn maybe everyone should stop riding nvidia's ass because of some minor i/q loss issue.
The thing is, unless you are some kind of uber detail freak, you aren't really gonna notice it too much while the game is playing. Screenshots are one thing. Percieved quality is another.

[Cylinder]

That is exactly the problem, its not that big of a deal. Some sites will bash just about anything if it gets them publicity, and if it means slamming a company that has had very few bumps in the road so to speak, then so be it. Its really sad to see it done though, and I for one am getting pretty sick of it all. They are extremely over emphasizing these miniscule flaws in drivers, cards, and anything that frankly isn't in the almighty #1 spot. Now I'm not saying that you shouldn't point out the really obvious flaws in something like for example the margin between the 9800 vs 5900 in HL2. That is a fairly big thing to not notice for anyone. I'm am talkin about the stupid little things like IQ 'flaws' that make no difference during play, and you would never notice had someone not sat there for 10 minutes looking for it in a screen cap.

[Particleman]

I tried them on my 5900 Ultra, I definitely don't like them, they are buggy and they seem to force on their image sharpening (which I don't like, with the slider all the way down now it looks like with the slider 1 or 2 ticks up before, I can't stand the way it makes text look). Dawn seems to run a bit slower), masa's DX9 rthdribl (real-time HDR demo) runs the same. 4XS and 6X no longer say Direct3D only, but for now it seems it applies no FSAA in OpenGL for now. I'm going back to the 45.33's fewer bugs and it doesn't have image sharpening forced on.

I also think that Digital Vibrance has been turned on a very small bit @2% as default as my colors don't look quite normal anymore (things seem to have a reddish tinge like when DV is enabled even though the slider is at it's lowest). the very small bit of digital vibrance and image shapening on by default would explain why some are reporting better IQ. I myself don't like either of those gimmicks though.

[Particleman]

Well after switching back to the 45.33 drivers I am almost certain that Digital Vibrance and Image sharpening are being applied at @ 2% with the 51.75 drivers. This would explain why some here are reporting better IQ (for those who like those options). I noticed it right away since I truely dispise both of those options even at low levels, image sharpening produces a distinct graininess around text, and digital vibrance produces unatural colors, that would explain why everything looked redder when I tried the 51.75 options. As soon as I switched back I noticed those two things vanish.

Does anyone else notice the difference in text and colors with the 51.75 drivers? If I am right I hope nVidia doesn't enable these at small levels with the official drivers because not everyone likes these features even if it is only a bit. The slider at off should mean off.

[Raziel]

Nope, no difference about that here.

[Cylinder]

I have encountered one small hicup, that is more then likely not going to affect many people. I could not use the video in on my GF3 at all. Everytime I started WinDVR it would cuase a system reboot, and since I use my video in quite a bit, that just can't happen. So I'm back to 44.03's for now after some very funky issues when goin back that I got sorted out. Other then the video in problem I liked them just fine, and since I have one of the few GF3's that even have video in, its not that big a deal to me.

[sxamiga]

Well, from all the good things I'm hearing here, I'm downloading these right now. Yes Phoenix, I know, you probably figured I would. lol :lol: :lol:
As for your report Kirby, that is really great to hear. If these drivers can increase speed for you w/your GF 2 (still an excellent card IMHO) then they sound like a pretty "sure thing" to me.
After I get 'em I'll test 'em out w/two of my favorite games for playing and testing and those are PacMan World and Gauntlet Legends. Then I'll give you all a report on what I think. I'll also try them out w/Dawn, Dusk, the Dancing Ogre, and Vulcan and see how they do.
Thanks for the news Raziel, these are so new that guru3d.com doesn't have them yet.
sincerely,
sx/amiga

[dogulation000]

Seems that web sites got crazy over nothing. Well, Nvidia should know that they are "under the microscope" anyway. :)

Very hi res X works, so there must be some upside. :)

[Particleman]

Well Image Sharpening is definitely being applied. And I have a way to prove it now (it was hard to find a way to compare them side by side since you can't screen capture image sharpening). If you go to nVidia's new Screen Resolution tab in the display properties and change resolotions with it in the 51.75 drivers, it will give you a prompt if you want to accept these settings. The resolution will have changed but until you hit the "yes" button, Image Sharpening will not be applied yet (this is the way that I expect my screen to look normally), but the second you hit the "yes" button it applies Image Sharpening. The difference is very noticeable you look at it side by side. Very annoying new "feature" for those of us who hate image sharpening.

This is why it is wrong to do anything to the reference image quality even if it is only at small levels. Although some people won't notice it, some will notice and it will bother them a great deal.

[mr.saraiva]

these drivers gave me around +10fps with some games...
Vice City, CS, Pro Race Driver, to name a few. And they "fell" smoother too ;)

[Phoenix]

I've tested a bit the drivers and I have no complains so far. IQ seems equal to previous releases (45.23/45.24/45.33). Yes, they're faster, even though they're the beta of beta drivers they perform excellent on my GF4 Ti 4600. Maybe if I had a GF FX 5900 card I might notice all those tiny details you have all said.

sxamiga, I knew you'd test them ;). Regarding why guru3d is not having them, Hilbert said that the won't be serving the file because the driver is considered highly beta, not intended to be leaked like the other betas.

[sxamiga]

Thanks for the explanation Phoenix. I knew that there had to be a good reason why guru3d didn't have them. Usually they have them as fast or, sometimes, faster than anyone else.
BTW, I downloaded and installed them last night and tried them out with the Nvidia demo Vulcan. Superb, what else can be said? I'll be doing more testing tonight. These drivers look like sure winners to me.
sincerely,
sx/amiga

[Yeloazndevil]

well I'm glad u like these drivers sxamiga, all I had was problems, when I uninstalled them and reinstalled 45.23 drivers my screen was corrupted and they only way I could fix it was reformat, even system restore didn't work

[Gamer1]

okay, been doing some testing with the det51.75, don't like it.

i guess the 45.23 will be my last detonator upgrade for my ti4200. now, only if there is a way to force tri-linear filtering...

[Raqia]

Almost all things except benchmarks are quite a bit zippier with these drivers. I noticed quite a speed jump in Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance which uses heavy pixel shading from the 43.45 drivers I used to use. 3DMark 01 dropped significantly (almost 700 pts), 03 and aquamark 3 are about the same.

[Cylinder]

well I'm glad u like these drivers sxamiga, all I had was problems, when I uninstalled them and reinstalled 45.23 drivers my screen was corrupted and they only way I could fix it was reformat, even system restore didn't work

I had the exact same problem, which is what I referred to as 'funky issues' though. You might not have had to format, just booting in safe mode and removing them worked for me just fine, and got rid of the rainbow effect going back a set gave me. Some very interesting issues with these so far, as there seems to be more compramises as time goes on. I was not the only one that had video in trouble it seems. My friend and his 5900 could not get his video in to work with this set either. Pretty small issue if you never use it, but if you do, that is not acceptable.

I see my faith in nVidia starting to take question, and that is saying something...

[fivefeet8]

I also had the weird desktop corruption when I reverted back to the Omega 45.23's. Fixed it with a system restore though. But then my FPS dropped quite noticeably in some of my PC games. NFS HP2 dropped to 30-40 fps at 1280x1024 4xS, 8xAF. Reinstalled the 51.75's, then it went back up to 50+ fps with the same settings.

[Phoenix]

weird issues about rolling back the drivers, I'm still using them. I hope they don't give me any trouble while downgrading....

[sxamiga]

Well, I think that I'll be keeping them, at least for a while. Thus far I have encountered no serious problems. As for speed, fivefeet8 have you tried the Wolfman Demo w/these drivers? I tried it out and it works perfectly even with FSAA turned on. Even the Radeon Chimp demo works great with these. So I'm happy w/them and I intend to keep using them.
sincerely,
sx/amiga

[fivefeet8]

Well, I made a little webpage with comparisons from UT2k3 using Omega's 45.23 and the 51.75 beta dets. Not much difference except in the Icetomb map where all the fog is gone. But look at the FPS difference.

Here (http://www.geocities.com/pao_vang5f8/Screenshots/PC.htm)

[hushypushy]

holy crap dude, that is a HUGE difference (16 to 48)

[fivefeet8]

Yeah. I was quite suprised as well. In fact, I've never played these two maps before. Other maps in UT2k3 were running fine. But someone at another message board was having low fps in DM-Icetomb with his 5900u's. So I tested that map and also read that the Rustatorium DM map also was unusually slow on Fx cards.

The FPS gain you see in both maps are quite large with the new 51.75's. These two maps supposedly uses heavy dx8 pixel shader effects. As you can see from the shots, other than the missing roof fog in Icetomb, everything else looks pretty much the same. I've also heard that the missing fog might be a driver bug and considering these are beta.. ;)

[Phoenix]

Impressive FPS increase I wonder if this is a real optimization or just a cheat somehow.

[hushypushy]

does it matter? the point is that it looks very good and that is a very good FPS....

[Raziel]

ppfff, I'm starting to be pissed at this whole "cheat" thing, why don't you guys realise that ATi is doing exactly the same thing ? Both companies always did, no one ever realised or complained until the 3D Mark "drama", get over it and enjoy your card, be it nVidia or ATi, both companies are great, end of the story.

[fivefeet8]

Impressive FPS increase I wonder if this is a real optimization or just a cheat somehow.

I can't say if it's a cheat or not, but either way, it wouldn't matter unless we find that whole effects on those maps are missing. The only thing missing so far is the scene fog in DM-Icetomb, although it's probably a driver bug. Other than that, both maps looks the same as with the 45.23 dets albeit with far more impressive FPS.

Plus, this isn't a benchmark. It's performance taken from an actual game while playing it with 8 bots running around. There is no predetermined camera path to clip planes from.

btw. Here is are some timedemo bench with Fraps.

Need For Speed Hp2 w/51.75's:
Palm City Open track
1280x1024 4xAA/8xAF-quality
2003-09-20 13:03:28 - NFSHP2
Frames: 8053 - Time: 133219ms - Avg: 60.449 - Min: 31 - Max: 110

Ut2k3 w/51.75's:
1024x768, 4xAA/8xAF-quality
DM-Rustatorium
2003-09-19 11:40:11 - UT2003
Frames: 3941 - Time: 82375ms - Avg: 47.842 - Min: 29 - Max: 78
DM-IceTomb
2003-09-19 11:37:15 - UT2003
Frames: 3588 - Time: 63703ms - Avg: 56.323 - Min: 36 - Max: 81

Believe it or not. Those Fraps timelogs are from my Fx5900u running at stock speeds. 450/850. I'm getting even higher FPS with it Oc'ed to 500/950. :evil:

[dogulation000]

ppfff, I'm starting to be pissed at this whole "cheat" thing, why don't you guys realise that ATi is doing exactly the same thing ? Both companies always did, no one ever realised or complained until the 3D Mark "drama", get over it and enjoy your card, be it nVidia or ATi, both companies are great, end of the story.

If you ask me, ATI ain't the ones who is saying that Nvidia is cheating. In fact, they have been not saying much about them. If you ask me, that people are very picky. They want the best image quality AND the fastest speed. Unfortnately, sometimes its either the software or the hardware companies that can't keep up with one another. And to tell you the truth, if people weren't so picky, then the companies would likely becoming lazy or greedy. It is this high demand for the best of the best that keeps ATI or Nvidia from straying from what they are supposed to do, which is to do the best of their capabilities. Unfornately, Nvidia has been disappointing me as of late, but I bet they will eventually get back on tract.

[leaf]

ak, they took the download of the site, anyone know where i an get it?

[Phoenix]

Raziel, cool off man I was very impressed by fivefeet8's tests, as he says -performance test- not benchmarks. I hadn't seen such enhancement a while ago.
I really don't mind increasing IQ/speed being done by whatever techniques they do, actually it benefits all of us.
This is good as dogulations says, each time costumers demand better hardware with better capabilities.


ak, they took the download of the site, anyone know where i an get it?


http://www.danilpremgi.co.uk/win-xp-2k-5175.zip
http://download.drivernews.ro:8080/VIDEO/win-xp-2k-5175.zip

[D.D.]

come one guys....lets keep the ATI vs nvidia comments in the ATi vs Nvidia thread. This thread is about the 51.75 dets, which, we all know, is HIGHLY beta. Hence, they might have left some "cheats"/"optimizations"/"hacks" in that would be left out in the first actual det 50 release. By what fivefee8 is reporting, I'd say these are great, but I'm not gonna try them on my machine cuz they have so many bugs, esp on the pre nv30 cards.

BTW, if they manage to or are implementing some kinda imitation tile-based rendering/ HSR technique in these drivers, that'll really make my day.

[Raziel]

Yeah, sorry Phoenix, it's just that I'm quite pissed at the hardware scene recently, retards thinking they know everything (note : I don't know everything either).

[Phoenix]

you're right D.D. :laugh:

Raziel, no need to be sorry, actually I thoroughly understand your point. Sometimes I feel the same way, but hey, it's a forum and there's some stuff you have to deal with sometimes.

Let's hope the detonators 5x.xx finally make it to the normal beta stage in order to be like the other betas at least.

[sxamiga]

Well, I switched back to Omega's 45.23 drivers for now. I switched today. The 51.75 dets caused quite a few problems for me, none of 'em serious thankfully. I think that these are just to new and too beta right now. I'll wait for a bit until a beta of 'em is more "offically" released.
BTW, I uninstalled them using "add/remove programs" and they uninstalled just fine, quickly, and without a hitch. Thanks goodness everything is back to normal again.
sincerely,
sx/amiga

[Cylinder]

Why would nVidia change their arcitecture in a driver all of a sudden to tile based?

[Raziel]

BTW, if they manage to or are implementing some kinda imitation tile-based rendering/ HSR technique in these drivers, that'll really make my day.
HSR has been in the hardware since the GeForce 3, it's called occlusion culling.

[D.D.]

>Why would nVidia change their arcitecture in a driver all of a sudden to tile based?

heheh.....I'd just like to see that :) But seriously, I think it would be cool to have that option just to see what kind of performance increase would reasult (if there would be any)....

EDIT: raziel: really? Didn't know that :P....what are the differences between HSR and tile-based rendering?

[leaf]

http://www.danilpremgi.co.uk/win-xp-2k-5175.zip
http://download.drivernews.ro:8080/VIDEO/win-xp-2k-5175.zip


any win98 versions?

[Phoenix]

any win98 versions?

As far as I know, no. Maybe when an official release comes out, a win9x version might be available.

[Yeloazndevil]

any win98 versions?
nope, probably not anytime soon

[Shadow_Cast]

I had the exact same problem, which is what I referred to as 'funky issues' though. You might not have had to format, just booting in safe mode and removing them worked for me just fine, and got rid of the rainbow effect going back a set gave me. Some very interesting issues with these so far, as there seems to be more compramises as time goes on. I was not the only one that had video in trouble it seems. My friend and his 5900 could not get his video in to work with this set either. Pretty small issue if you never use it, but if you do, that is not acceptable.

I see my faith in nVidia starting to take question, and that is saying something...

You guys are lucky - my Geforce4 MX440 VGA out got nuked.....sucks, not I have to revert to my old GeForce 16MB........but at least I'll be getting an All-In-Wonder 9000....still sucks though.

EDIT compsite and S-video out still work though

[Kane]

Then use the S-video out to change the mode back to VGA. My guess is it's not the card that's fooked, just the settings.

[Shadow_Cast]

its not that - I get a hardware fail BSOD.

[Demigod]

HSR has been in the hardware since the GeForce 3, it's called occlusion culling.
There's a pretty big difference between HSR and simple occlusion culling. I won't get into the details, only that tile-based rendering is something completely different from polygon-based ones. Currently only the PowerVR chips implement a true HSR algorithm.

Not to bash Nvidia or anything but you guys do realize that there are known bugs in the latest drivers, bugs which have been confirmed by Nvidia. Currently both the 45.x and 51.x drivers have bugs. Shadows and fogs seem to be missing from games and benchmarks (either intentionally or non-intentionally) and there's differences in the level of anisotropy. You won't really notice then when playing (as there's really nothing to compare) but it makes it difficult for review sites to do apples-to-apples comparisons when there are features missing for one product, which is why they're brought up all the time and why people are making such a big fuss about them.