PS2 vs GameCube vs XBox

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Exophase
Speaking of secretivity... I'm kinda confused about this whole Megaton thing, exactly what was that about Ninja?


Heh. That's something that never really came to be. Nintendo was supposed to make a big announcement at the end of December that would cause GameCube's to "fly off shelves". That announcement was hyped to the extreme, and rumors started flying around the net about it. A specific day was even mentioned.

Nothing happened that day.

This might be the "Megaton" announcement, although it isn't really all that mega.

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/url/?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zdnet.co.jp%2Fgamespot%2F gsnews%2F0212%2F24%2Fnews03.html&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2

Basically, Nintendo confirmed the following games, which have been almost positive rumors until recently. Nothing all that big except Kirby's Airland, which took us by surprise. ;)


Nintendo Puzzle Collection (7 February)
Metroid Prime (28 Feb)
Giftpia (April)
F-Zero GC (May)
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles (Spring)
Wario World GC (Spring)
Kirby's Airland (Summer)
Mario Golf GC (Summer)
Mario Tennis GC (next Winter)
1080 GC (next Winter)
Starfox
Mario Kart GC
Pikmin 2
Doubutsu no Mori 2 (Animal Crossing 2)

BTW, have you heard the latest MS Fanboy rumor that says that Nintendo sold Microsoft the rights to Zelda? :D :D :D :D :D

[Exophase]

HEH that's a good one ;) I'm kinda disappointed, the whole Megaton thing seemed interesting :( It's like I was saying though, Nintendo should watch its hype, because empty hype can be damaging in the end. I wonder how many people were disillusioned by this..

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

I actually think of it as free advertising. ;) It wasn't that bad, as most people I know blame ourselves for hyping it too much, and not Nintendo. But the original rumors said that Megaton would happen between Christmas and New Years. I haven't given up all hope yet. ;)

Besides, Seiken Densetsu and Sonic Adventure 3 have just been half-assed confirmed for GameCube. I am happy about that. ;)

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Since when were we analyzing quantity? PS2 not only has more RPG's but it has more GOOD RPG's too...

It's a coincidence, I know that you meant that the PS2 has good RPGs (as a matter of fact it has great RPGs), but Syed's "score" system is based upon quantity, forget about RPGs, all the genres have been "classified" upon quantity... it's more of a market division rather than a quality score...

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
[B It's a coincidence, I know that you meant that the PS2 has good RPGs (as a matter of fact it has great RPGs), but Syed's "score" system is based upon quantity, forget about RPGs, all the genres have been "classified" upon quantity... it's more of a market division rather than a quality score... [/B]

Quantity and quality product is what I say. You totally misunderstood me or you didn't read my posts and started criticising the system.

And no, I am only talking about the greatest games in a particular genre, otherwise I would have added "Arc the lad" "Dark cloud" "dark cloud2" and "the legend of alone dar" as well in the PS2 RPG lineup. But I only gave the big names which are great.

Why Am I am not giving GC any points? It goes like this. The good games on PS2 cancell out the good games on GC and even after that a good number of good games are still on PS2. That's why the score is at 3-0.

[Ninjaa]

Alright Syed, here's a list of GameCube RPGs that certainly have nothing wrong with them.

Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II
Lost Kingdoms
Lost Kingdoms II
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
Tales of Phantasia GCN

[Syed Fawad]

PSO is also an offline RPG? :confused:

I never talked about Everquest online....

[Ninjaa]

Well fine, add Everquest then. But yes, PSO can be played offline with up to 4 people. Many people prefer to play this way with their spouse, siblings, etc.

[Syed Fawad]

I say, why don't you keep PSO for the Online genre?

Hmmm. Still I believe that GC can't get more than Zero. The competition is tough.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Alright Syed, here's a list of GameCube RPGs that certainly have nothing wrong with them.

You know, I posted those titles and yet...

> Why Am I am not giving GC any points? It goes like this. The good games on PS2 cancell out the good games on GC and even after that a good number of good games are still on PS2. That's why the score is at 3-0.

The games aren't comparable (games themselves, not titles), they can't cancel each other... therefore that's why your system is misunderstood... the GC has some good RPGs, they can't be cancelled just because the PS2 features a lot of great RPGs...

> But I only gave the big names which are great.

You mean that BG:DA isn't one of the games that counted for the list ?

> Quantity and quality product is what I say. You totally misunderstood me or you didn't read my posts and started criticising the system.

I will ignore that last part of your comment... as for the first part, quality matters more than quantity, the PS2 has a lot of GREAT RPGs, I grant you that, but just because of it you can't cancel the titles avaible for the GC nor the XBOX...

[Ninjaa]

Syed, you have no idea how much I am laughing about your statement. You have said yourself that you aren't an RPG player, and the only two that you have played are FFX and Kingdom Hearts. I'm sorry to tell you, but I don't think you know the difference between a good and a bad RPG.

The bottom 3 RPGs I listed are more than enough to keep me occupied for a long period of time, and the others are mostly filler that I will play in the meantime.

On the PS2, it wouldn't be much different for me. I would be playing Xenosaga, Unlimited Saga, Star Ocean 3, Wild Arms 3, and Suikoden 3, and the rest would be filler. I just fail to see why you think that GameCube should get a zero. I can see that the PS2 is clearly the better system (at the moment), for RPGs, but giving it a perfect score just seems absurd to me.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> (...) but giving it a perfect score just seems absurd to me.

Giving the GC a zero just because the PS2 has more RPGs seems absurd to me...

[Syed Fawad]

As much you (Ninja) don't care about my taste in RPGs, I think the same about you. The whole point in this conversation is on a general level.

It is a fact that PS2'S RPG lineup is BETTER than that of GC's, bothe QUANTITY AND QUALITY wise.

[Exophase]

I'm going to have to agree that I don't understand Syed's logic, that on a point distribution GCN should get 0 and PS2 3 because PS2 does better.

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

> It is a fact that PS2'S RPG lineup is BETTER than that of GC's, bothe QUANTITY AND QUALITY wise.

Quantity, I grant you that... quality... well, let's wait for the strong upcoming titles for the GC... still the GC deserves by no meaning a 0...

> I'm going to have to agree that I don't understand Syed's logic, that on a point distribution GCN should get 0 and PS2 3 because PS2 does better.

I told you that it has its flaws... to me it's quite ilogical...

[Syed Fawad]

After a little revision, V 1.2

Action/Adventure :
PS2: 1.5
GCN: 1
XBX: 0.5


Role Playing
PS2: 2.75
GCN: 0.25
XBX: 0

Sports
PS2: 1
GCN: 1
XBX: 1

Extreme Sports
PS2: 1
GCN: 1
XBX: 1

Racing
PS2: 1.5
GCN: 0.5
XBX: 1

Fighting
PS2: 2.5
GCN: 0.25
XBX: 0.25

Plat formers
PS2: 0.25
GCN: 2.5
XBX: 0.25

First Person
PS2: 1
GCN: 1
XBX: 1

Wrestling
PS2: 2.5
GCN: 0
XBX: 0.5

Survival Horror
PS2: 0.5
GCN: 2
XBX: 0.5


Online
PS2: 1
GCN: 0.25
XBX: 1.75


Other/ Misc
PS2: 1.5
GCN: 1.5
XBX: 0


Now to sum up all the scores:
PS2: 17
GCN: 11.25
XBOX: 7.75

[Takmadeus]

well.... this converstaion has gone a little bit harsh..... please relax, there is no need to be so rough for such stupid topic as "PS2 is better, no, GC is!!!"...... and as I can tell.... well, XBOX gets a -1... nah, a 1 just because they tried..... PS2 gets a 2.5 because the RPG focusing, and GC gets a 2.5 because it doesn't feature so much RPGs, but it has good quality and many games are and will be great hits (think of Metroid prime)

see?.... both of you are right, but there was a better way to conciliate opinions...:)

[Ninjaa]

I can see I am getting nowhere with the RPGs, so I will just back down, but not without protest. IT SUCKS and I am STILL RIGHT! ;)

But... I can get points in other areas I am sure. Pikmin 2, Animal Crossing 2, Mario Kart, and Kirby's Airland, Mario Golf, and Mario Tennis have all just been confirmed for GameCube (as in no longer rumor). how does that affect platformers, racers, and other? (Let's not forget Star Fox, F-Zero, or Wario World either. ;))

Btw, don't you think that Wrestling and Fighting should be grouped together?

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Ninja
I can see I am getting nowhere with the RPGs, so I will just back down, but not without protest. IT SUCKS and I am STILL RIGHT! ;)

But... I can get points in other areas I am sure. Pikmin 2, Animal Crossing 2, Mario Kart, and Kirby's Airland, Mario Golf, and Mario Tennis have all just been confirmed for GameCube (as in no longer rumor). how does that affect platformers, racers, and other? (Let's not forget Star Fox, F-Zero, or Wario World either. ;))

Btw, don't you think that Wrestling and Fighting should be grouped together?


IT SUCKS? what? the RPG lineup on GC Sucks? I never thought I would hear that from you. Yeah you may be right then.

Pikmin2, Animal crossing2, Kirby's Airland. Well I forgot to add the kiddy genre :D j/k

These are applicable for the "other" genre that I put at the bottom. You've got your points there.

Mario Golf and Mario Tennis. Prove to me that these games have better game engines and game mechanics than EA's or other sports title's.

Star fox was put in the action adventure genre. Wario world? I am not sure about the genre. Help me with it.

Mario Kart and F-Zero was put in the Racers. I said that "I've included the wipeout type racers as well" the only thing which earned GC a fraction of points.

WWE and figthing should be put in the same genre just because they hold equal importance for you, i.e. non? Remember, Wrestling and fighting are different things. We have Rob Van Dam in WWE and Claude Van Dam in fighting :D j/k

[Ninjaa]

IT SUCKS? what? the RPG lineup on GC Sucks? I never thought I would hear that from you. Yeah you may be right then.

I was referring to your grading system smart-ass. ;)

Pikmin2, Animal crossing2, Kirby's Airland. Well I forgot to add the kiddy genre :D j/k

Give me one good reason why I shouldn't flame you until charred beyond recognition for that comment. j/k

These are applicable for the "other" genre that I put at the bottom. You've got your points there.

Just saying that I think GameCube can kick the PS2's butt in your other category.

Mario Golf and Mario Tennis. Prove to me that these games have better game engines and game mechanics than EA's or other sports title's.

Play the N64 versions and tell me that they aren't the funnest golf and tennis games you have ever played.

Star fox was put in the action adventure genre. Wario world? I am not sure about the genre. Help me with it.

I think that Star Fox Armada belongs more in the "other" category, as you don't have a shooter category. (In which case, Ikuraga, Rogue Leader, and Star Fox would rule all)

Mario Kart and F-Zero was put in the Racers. I said that "I've included the wipeout type racers as well" the only thing which earned GC a fraction of points.

0.5 points? come on. I fail to see why the PS2 is leading by such a margin, and why even the Xbox has more points. Last I heard, F-Zero and Mario Kart could kill Project Gotham Racing any day of the week.

[Syed Fawad]

I was referring to your grading system smart-ass .

So you've got a problem with it? well At least it provided some HOT discussion here ;)

Give me one good reason why I shouldn't flame you until charred beyond recognition for that comment.

One Reason- You know that I was joking.
Did I make you angry? But I am THINKING about that kiddy genre. GC will definetly get more points. :D

Just saying that I think GameCube can kick the PS2's butt in your other category.


Then let's start it up and see who really is better. ;)


Play the N64 versions and tell me that they aren't the funnest golf and tennis games you have ever played.

*plays the games on an emu* they aren't the funnest golf and tennis games I have ever played. I enjoyed Pete Sampras Tennis on SNES more and I just hate golf. Those were my personal opinions. On a general level, ppl care about EA.

I think that Star Fox Armada belongs more in the "other" category, as you don't have a shooter category. (In which case, Ikuraga, Rogue Leader, and Star Fox would rule all)

I was looking at those Armoured Core pics in the screenshots discussion. Is that also a shooter?

0.5 points? come on. I fail to see why the PS2 is leading by such a margin, and why even the Xbox has more points. Last I heard, F-Zero and Mario Kart could kill Project Gotham Racing any day of the week.

I donno which week you're talking about. Either it has passed away without regocnition or is yet to come. Wipeout kicks F-Zero's ass last time I heard.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> I was referring to your grading system smart-ass.

Again... I said that a lot of times, and all I got was flames... whatever...

> So you've got a problem with it? well At least it provided some HOT discussion here

There were plenty already, Ninja and I fighting over the fact that the GBA features/doesn't feature remakes/ports... that was a quite a hot one and it was over nothing...

> 0.5 points? come on. I fail to see why the PS2 is leading by such a margin, and why even the Xbox has more points. Last I heard, F-Zero and Mario Kart could kill Project Gotham Racing any day of the week.

Agree with Fawad, those 2 games doesn't stand against Gotham Racing, at least from what I've read...

[Syed Fawad]

[B]>Again... I said that a lot of times, and all I got was flames... whatever...

I never flamed you. This idea just came to my mind and I just posted it here without much thinking. It works but not quite well..


> There were plenty already, Ninja and I fighting over the fact that the GBA features/doesn't feature remakes/ports... that was a quite a hot one and it was over nothing...

I guess that one was quite irrelevent to the topic of this thread.

> Agree with Fawad, those 2 games doesn't stand against Gotham Racing, at least from what I've read...

An affirmative comment. woah.

:heh:

[Kaiser Sigma]

> I never flamed you. This idea just came to my mind and I just posted it here without much thinking. It works but not quite well..

I wasn't talking about you...

> I guess that one was quite irrelevent to the topic of this thread.

Was it ? I don't know, the GBA is one of the new generation systems (handheld system) so I think it belongs to this thread too...

> An affirmative comment. woah.

Whatever... it's from what I've read, which necesarily isn't that much... IMO I agree that Gotham is better than those too, but maybe it's just me...

[ChrisRay]

*plays the games on an emu* they aren't the funnest golf and tennis games I have ever played. I enjoyed Pete Sampras Tennis on SNES more and I just hate golf. Those were my personal opinions. On a general level, ppl care about EA.


Best Tennis game I have ever played is that one Sega made on the dreamcast, Argh whats it called. Anyway the series is going to be available on Xbox and PS2.

When the name comes to me I'll tell you

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Best Tennis game I have ever played is that one Sega made on the dreamcast

Ditto, you mean the 2K2 game... one of the best sport games I've played...

[ChrisRay]

Ahh yes. 2k1 one was very good too. I think Sega Sports is generally better at creating games than EA.

[Dr. Drizzay]

I think it was Virtua Tennis

[Ninjaa]

Ok, just to make my point, here are the Japanese sales data for the Mario Kart games.

Super Mario Kart 3.73
Mario Kart 64 1.98

And for Gran Turismo...

Gran Turismo 2.20
Gran Turismo 2 1.80
Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec 1.68

Basically, Mario Kart is more popular than Gran Turismo. I don't know what's wrong with you guys, but Mario Kart is very respected by most people. :D

As for F-Zero, I am sure it can wipe the floor with Wipeout, but I guess I can't prove that as neither game sold over a million copies in Japan, so I will let it lie.

[Exophase]

Could we see worldwide sales for something Ninja? You know, just for a change of pace. Japanese sales don't reflect "most people", you know.

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Yeah, I know, but worldwide sales are absolutely impossible to find. Japanese sales are usually only a click or two away. But I know that F-Zero and Mario Kart did very well in the US as well, I just don't know how it did compared to Gran Turismo or Wipeout, as I can't find sales data on either.

[Ninjaa]

Here's the latest sales data in Japan according to media crate.

1. Game Boy Advance - 325,400 / 3,146,900
2. PlayStation 2 - 154,000 / 3,511,200
3. GameCube - 76,900 / 1,129,300
4. Xbox - 16,200 / 312,400
5. PlayStation One - 5,700 / 219,000
6. Swan Crystal - 5,400 / 112,800
7. Swan Color - 3,400 / 121,600
8. Game Boy Color - 1,900 83,900
9. Nintendo 64 - 320 / 6,700
10. Woner Swan - 180 / 8,600
11. Game Boy - 95 / 5,700
12. Dreamcast - 38 / 17,500
13. Pocket Station - 7 / 1,300


01. Unlimited SaGa (PS2) -203,700
02. Pokémon: Sapphire Version (GBA) -201,800 / 1,216,300
03. Pokémon: Ruby Version (GBA) -200,000 / 1,216,100
04. Sammy Battle PACHISURO sure-fire method for winning! (PS2) -114,200
05. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (GCN) -104,400 / 512,200
06. Mario Party 4 (GCN) -84,800 / 499,200
07. Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance (PS2) -81,600
08. Winning Eleven 6 (PS2) -80,500 / 417,000
09. Mega Man Battle Network 3 (GBA) -72,600 / 193,400
10. King OBU Colosseum (PS2) -46,700

The only way to look at that is NINTENDO IS KICKING ASS!
of course, a lot of that is because of the GBA though.

PS: Square just announced that they now have 200,000 users on FFXI. Good job Square. ;)

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Basically, Mario Kart is more popular than Gran Turismo. I don't know what's wrong with you guys, but Mario Kart is very respected by most people

Maybe we should make a thread about Mario Kart vs any other racing game... to me Mario Kart is too childish, it's a fair game but I can't believe it can be more popular than other racing games (such as GT3, GT2, PG)... I'd rather have Project Gotham or GT3 rather than Mario... but maybe it's just me...

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> Best Tennis game I have ever played is that one Sega made on the dreamcast

Ditto, you mean the 2K2 game... one of the best sport games I've played...

Best Tennis game I've played on DC is Virtua Tennis.

A diehard racing gamer will prefer GT3 over Mario Kart. Although Mario Kart is a really fun game, and I hate to say this, but Mario Kart is a lot kiddy than Gran Turismo.

As for Wipeout, I am sure it can wipe the floor with F-Zero, but I guess I can't prove that as neither game sold over a million copies in Japan, so I will let it lie.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Fawad


Best Tennis game I've played on DC is Virtua Tennis.

A diehard racing gamer will prefer GT3 over Mario Kart. Although Mario Kart is a really fun game, and I hate to say this, but Mario Kart is a lot kiddy than Gran Turismo.

As for Wipeout, I am sure it can wipe the floor with F-Zero, but I guess I can't prove that as neither game sold over a million copies in Japan, so I will let it lie.


Pretty Safe to say Sega makes the best Tennis Game. You gotta love the arcade feel Sega gives to their games.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Pretty Safe to say Sega makes the best Tennis Game. You gotta love the arcade feel Sega gives to their games.

Plus the replayability is incredible for a tennis game... so many modes, customization... you can't compare Mario Tennis to Tennis 2K2 (or Virtua Tennis, I think they are the same)...

[Syed Fawad]

Virtua Tennis is what you call Tennis 2k1, and its sequel I think is just released for XBOX and PS2.

Virtua Tennis is one of THE BEST games (all games, not only tennis)on DC. Compare that to Mario Tennis. HAH!

[ChrisRay]

I could of Played Tennis 2k1 for hours straight without getting tired of it. It's the best damned Tennis game I have ever played. And Sega owns its franchise and we're gonna be seeing it on the Xbox and PS2 :)

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Virtua Tennis is what you call Tennis 2k1, and its sequel I think is just released for XBOX and PS2.

The 2K2 series of Sega sports were the last titles released for the DC... and yes, the systems you mentioned get the sequels...

> Virtua Tennis is one of THE BEST games (all games, not only tennis)on DC. Compare that to Mario Tennis. HAH!

Ditto... Mario Tennis the most fun tennis game... whatever...

[Syed Fawad]

And someone was also talking about Mario Golf :rolleyes:

[Ninjaa]

bah. You guys don't know what you are missing.

[Carnage]

what about mariokart vs. crash team racing;) I personily like ctr more

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Ninja
bah. You guys don't know what you are missing.


bah. You don't know what you are missing.

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Carnage
what about mariokart vs. crash team racing;) I personily like ctr more

BLASPHEMY!!!!!

[Carnage]

sorry ninja:D for me,mariokart is a bit too boring...

edit:speed freaks is also a cool game:)

[Ninjaa]

But I have played CTR. It's just a cheap Mario Kart ripoff, and nothing more. How could you possibly like it more?

[Carnage]

don't know...for some reason i find it more fun then mariokart...altough the adventure mode is short and the story sucks,the races are cool:) (but xtremely easy)have you played in oxides spacecraft yet???

[Ninjaa]

No, I mostly played the multiplayer. The single player seemed a lot like DKR though. (I hated that game too.)

[Carnage]

I like ctr also cause I can play as the insane ripper roo:eyemove: The other people get really iritated by his laughing:D ,anyway,in multiplayer did you play the normal tracks or the special fight tracks?

[Ninjaa]

Battle Arenas. Same as I play in Mario Kart most often. ;) I found the graphics, weapons, and gameplay to be seriously lacking compared to Mario Kart 64.

[Carnage]

ya...i didnt like the battle arenas either...only the tracks

[Syed Fawad]

So ninja, did you make up your mind or not? is there any possibilty of alterations in the scoreboarD?

I just don't get it. The XBOX fans around here aren't complaining. Did I gave the box more marks than it deserved? :confused:

[Ninjaa]

Syed, if you ask me, I think the Xbox got far more than it deserved. I will fight you over the GameCube scores, but it will have to be another day. I am a little too drunk to fight for them effectively. I just think that the PS2 got far more than it deserved as well, and I am trying to even the score a little. (seriously, the RPG scoring system is a disgrace.)

[Syed Fawad]

I think we should change the marking system a little. Instead of the consoles sharing 3 points among'em, each system will gain points out of a total 5.

Action/Adventure :
PS2: 4
GCN: 4
XBX: 4


Role Playing
PS2: 5
GCN: 1
XBX: 1

Sports
PS2: 5
GCN: 5
XBX: 5

Extreme Sports
PS2: 5
GCN: 5
XBX: 5

Racing
PS2: 4
GCN: 2
XBX: 3

Fighting
PS2: 4.5
GCN: 1.5
XBX: 2

Plat formers
PS2: 1.5
GCN: 5
XBX: 1

First Person
PS2: 4
GCN: 5
XBX: 5

Wrestling
PS2: 4
GCN: 0.5
XBX: 2

Survival Horror
PS2: 3
GCN: 5
XBX: 3


Online
PS2: 3
GCN: 2
XBX: 4.5


Other/ Misc
PS2: 4
GCN: 4
XBX: 1


Now to sum up all the scores:
PS2: 47 out of a 60.
GCN: 40 out of 60.
XBOX: 36.5 out of 60.

[Samor]

too drunk again?
playing permant alcoholic, ninja? ;)

[Ninjaa]

Samor, it's Christmas. I hate this time of year, and I use alcohol to get through it. Give me a few more days and I will be back to normal I hope.

Syed, I am sputtering mad about some of your ratings, but I will debate them later. (Most particularly the fighting, RPG, other, and racing categories).

[Kaiser Sigma]

Syed, your scores are quite accurated... maybe a few ones need a bit of refining, but overall they are great scored...

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
Syed, your scores are quite accurated... maybe a few ones need a bit of refining, but overall they are great scored...

Well that's what you think. Ninja wan'ts to argue on a few points. I won't mind that. But Ninja, I won't be around after this year, so better bring up the arguments quickly.

[Exophase]

The only category that matters... (yep, RPGs!)

PS2: 4.5
GCN: 2.5
XBox: 1

Tada.

- Exo

[Raedius]

By RPG I assume you mean FF style Japanese interactive storybooks. Thats all they are.

~Raedius

[ChrisRay]

I'd really like to see D&D style role Playing games ending up on the Xbox or PS2. WOuld love to see them just on a console. But I doubt they'd sell well. =\

[Raedius]

I want Fable... NOW!

Thats the only RPG I want... oh, and Star Wars: KOTOR

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

Syed, I concur with Exophase's RPG score. Both of us are experienced RPG gamers, and I urge you to take our advice on the situation.

Now, for racing. I have no idea why Xbox would be leading the GameCube in this category. Xbox only has like 1 racer to call its own. Nintendo has Mario Kart, F-Zero, Wave Race, Donkey Kong Racing, and Ridge Racer Next to call its own. In addition to that, it has all the 3rd party multiplatform games you would expect.

In the Fighting category, I find it disgraceful that Xbox would be leading GameCube. DOA3 most certainly IS NOT that great of a game, while SSBM is. At least give GameCube a 2.

In action/adventure, GameCube has Zelda, Star Fox Adventures, Killer 7, Dead Phoenix, PN03, and Too Human exclusive. That makes for a pretty big lineup I think. Nevertheless, if you insist on keeping your present score, I won't really object that much further. It's sort of fair, although I think you have given Xbox a little too high of a score, considering most of their action/adventure games are multiconsole.

I would throw Mario Party 4, Ikuraga, Star Fox Armada, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Animal Crossing 2, Pikmin 2, Mario golf, Mario Tennis, and Harvest Moon: Friends of Mineral Town on GameCube's side of the other category. Each of those games is a high rated game that would fit only in the other category, and is GameCube exclusive.

[ChrisRay]

You know the Ironic thing about all of this is Microsoft really has shown no interest in competing with Nintendo. All there spoke persons, Ads ect, Are going after Sony.

And even Microsoft said, Their interest is in Sony's market Share, Lofty goal. Don't see that happening for another few years, Considering Microsoft considers this a long term investment into the gaming industry. They intend on going after Sony by the throat come the PS3/Xbox2 round.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Come to think about it... you are damn right... heh, MS doesn't pay much attention to Nintendo...
Anyway, with the exception of the scores for RPGs and Racing games I don't think that the other is wrong... SSBM better than DOA3 ? mmm... I don't think so...

[Raedius]

Kung Fu Chaos looks alot more fun and original then SSBM.

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

You have GOT to be kidding me. Raedius, have you actually played SSBM yet? (Same goes to you Kaiser) If you have, have you played the multiplayer?

[Raedius]

Yes and yes.

~Raedius

[Kaiser Sigma]

Ditto... dull...

[Kraiger Drago]

DOA3 vs SSBM~ Multiplayer... Mmmm... DOA3 does squeek by on that account. SSBM does have 4 players, but DOA3 is a lot more intense and relies more on skill. ( Unless DOA3 also has a level where you can win by having your opponent repeatedly falling off the Pokéfloat).

Singleplayer~ SSBM mops the floor with DOA3. The Adventure mode, Events, and Multi Man Melees etc provide a lot more options for when You don't have other people to play against.

As for Kung Fu Chaos-
From the official site (http://www.microsoft.com/games/Xbox/kungfuchaos.asp)
The actors must not only survive each other, but they must do so in shifting, dangerous environments (movie sets), such as a sinking cruise ship, a jungle with a people-eating dinosaur and a steel cityscape invaded by aliens with laser beams.Just like Smash Brothers :) Oh, and the scoring on it (well, I am assuming that it is the player's score beside their portraits on the screenshots) is just like Smash Brothers as well. The only difference is that Kung Fu Chaos is in full 3d environments.

[Raedius]

Thats why I'm comparing them.

I find the 70's Kung Fu movie mode interesting.

I'll see if I can find the gameplay movie. Pretty funny.

~Raedius

[Syed Fawad]

The action adventure genre. PS2 has got GTA3 and VC plus DMC1 and DMC2. Honestly, I don't find XBOX exclusive action adventures to be quite upto the match. As for RPGs, OK. I still don't think that I'll touch the fighting genre. Racing, well GC gets a little boost
there. Other category remains same. Twisted Metal, Commandos2, Sims, etc. are for PS2.

Platformers. Well we have Ratchet $ Clank, Jak & Daxter, Sly Cooper and Rygar. I say it must get around the half of GC's platform lineup.


V 2.2

Action/Adventure :
PS2: 4.5
GCN: 4
XBX: 3


Role Playing
PS2: 4.5
GCN: 2
XBX: 1

Sports
PS2: 5
GCN: 5
XBX: 5

Extreme Sports
PS2: 5
GCN: 5
XBX: 5

Racing
PS2: 4.5
GCN: 2.5
XBX: 2.5

Fighting
PS2: 4.5
GCN: 1.5
XBX: 2

Plat formers
PS2: 2.5
GCN: 5
XBX: 1

First Person
PS2: 4
GCN: 5
XBX: 5

Wrestling
PS2: 4
GCN: 0.5
XBX: 2

Survival Horror
PS2: 3
GCN: 5
XBX: 3


Online
PS2: 3
GCN: 2
XBX: 4.5


Other/ Misc
PS2: 4
GCN: 4
XBX: 1


Now to sum up all the scores:
PS2: 48.5 out of a 60.
GCN: 41.5 out of 60.
XBOX: 35 out of 60.

[Raedius]

For fighting games I have high hopes for Tao Feng. Its being made by John Tobias, creator of Mortal Kombat. remember him? :)

EDIT: Hey I just found this great interview on IGN of John Tobias http://xbox.ign.com/articles/380/380926p1.html

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

Bah. I still have misgivings, but I am prepared to accept your score as it stands Syed. Kudos to a job well done.

"If you try to please everyone, noone will like it"

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Ninja
Bah. I still have misgivings, but I am prepared to accept your score as it stands Syed. Kudos to a job well done.

"If you try to please everyone, noone will like it"


So finally; Me, Ninja, Kaiser Sigma and Exophase agree to a single score. I believe that others too agree this.

This just proves that how true the poll of this thread is.

1. PS2
2. GCN
3. XBX

Let's see where we go from here. But where ever we go after this, I won't be avaiable for 140 days starting from 31st.

BTW, RAEDIUS. I read that interview and saw those images. I didn't find them looking better than Tekken4.

[Raedius]

I don't agree with his list but I'm not going to criticize. Its his opinion.

http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/taofenginterview_460.jpg

I like the dynamic blood and brusing. I hope it works well.

~Raedius

[ChrisRay]

DOA3 vs SSBM~ Multiplayer... Mmmm... DOA3 does squeek by on that account. SSBM does have 4 players, but DOA3 is a lot more intense and relies more on skill. ( Unless DOA3 also has a level where you can win by having your opponent repeatedly falling off the Pokéfloat).


DoA3 is a big selling point for me on the Xbox. It offers one thing That the computer genre has failed to offer all these years. a Multi Player Fighting game.

I'm still waiting for my PC port.. *sigh* If there were multi player fighters well coded on the PC I bet it could be an awesome seller...

[Papa Lazarou]

As I own all three consoles, I believe that I have a very non-biased view on the next-gen consoles.

In my opinion PS2 is the best of the 3, mainly due to the amount of awesome games available. The main reason of the PS2's success though is because it was realised a year and a half before the XBox and even longer before the GC. This gave the developers plenty of time to release their games, because they knew that the PS2 had no competition.
The opposite can be said about the XBox. When it was released, many of it's games were rushed and as a result, were utter pants (except for a Halo which was MEGA!) and also the seperate purchase for DVD playback was a big flop.
In my opinion the GC is also a great console but once again Nintendo are struggling to attract an older market.

[Exophase]

Originally posted by Papa Lazarou
As I own all three consoles, I believe that I have a very non-biased view on the next-gen consoles.

In my opinion PS2 is the best of the 3, mainly due to the amount of awesome games available. The main reason of the PS2's success though is because it was realised a year and a half before the XBox and even longer before the GC. This gave the developers plenty of time to release their games, because they knew that the PS2 had no competition.
The opposite can be said about the XBox. When it was released, many of it's games were rushed and as a result, were utter pants (except for a Halo which was MEGA!) and also the seperate purchase for DVD playback was a big flop.
In my opinion the GC is also a great console but once again Nintendo are struggling to attract an older market.

Well said. You make a good point about Sony having an advantage because PS2 is older. However people shouldn't allow them to think that in another year GCN and XBox will make up any difference because they too will have been around as long. Their developers might be as seasoned as PS2's, but they'll lack the momentum PS2 has. That's one thing that people sometimes overlook in the gaming community - momentum. It's surprisingly hard for a console to waver between massively successful and moderately unsuccessful during the course of its lifetime because gamers and developers won't go for the underdog. This is the primary reason why I think it will be difficult to impossible for GCN to overthrow PS2 in the category of RPGs.

Having said that, we should all look at how interesting it is that three consoles are competing and all of them are managing to hold their own. I don't think gaming has ever been this competitive; PSX trounced N64 and Saturn and while SNES and Genesis both had significant wins in their respective markets they left TG16 in the dust. We can probably all agree that this level of competition is a good thing, as I seriously think it's brought out better things from all companies (but also a couple of dirty tactics, urgh...)

- Exo

[Exophase]

Originally posted by Raedius
I don't agree with his list but I'm not going to criticize. Its his opinion.

http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/taofenginterview_460.jpg

I like the dynamic blood and brusing. I hope it works well.

~Raedius

Ah, the creator of Mortal Kombat.. maybe fighting games will return to the overemphasis on blood, gore, and inane fatalities that they so obviously deserve. :P

- Exo

[Raedius]

Well Tobias even himself admits that the Mortal Kombat series was kinda "basterdized", heh.

I don't think there are any "fatalities". From the screenshots I haven't seen any gore... except the blood and bruses.

~Raedius

[ChrisRay]

The creators of Mortal Kombat really destroyed there own franchise. It was a game that just didn't evolve.

[Exophase]

Well I was mostly speaking out of spite; the information on this game actually looks pretty good.

- Exo

[Raedius]

"Well I was mostly speaking out of spite; the information on this game actually looks pretty good."

????

Where is the real Exo!? What have you done with him!

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Exophase


Well said. You make a good point about Sony having an advantage because PS2 is older. However people shouldn't allow them to think that in another year GCN and XBox will make up any difference because they too will have been around as long. Their developers might be as seasoned as PS2's, but they'll lack the momentum PS2 has. That's one thing that people sometimes overlook in the gaming community - momentum. It's surprisingly hard for a console to waver between massively successful and moderately unsuccessful during the course of its lifetime because gamers and developers won't go for the underdog. This is the primary reason why I think it will be difficult to impossible for GCN to overthrow PS2 in the category of RPGs.

Actually, Nintendo has been doing a great deal in an attempt to catch up to Sony. In the first year alone, Nintendo has managed to get together enough software to rival Sony. They are also snatching up all the RPGs they can get their hands on. That should be immediately obvious considering who their new 2nd parties are.

I think that in another year, GameCube and PS2 will be standing eye to eye, and in the year after that, GameCube might just have the upper hand.

Of course, I agree that in all likelihood, Nintendo will never truly catch up in the RPG department, but I don't think that GameCube will dissapoint either. But there are other genres that are really shaping up nicely to trounce Sony.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Actually, Nintendo has been doing a great deal in an attempt to catch up to Sony. In the first year alone, Nintendo has managed to get together enough software to rival Sony.

Nintendo indeed got great games up to this date... but enough to rival Sony ? I don't know, the difference is still great...

> I think that in another year, GameCube and PS2 will be standing eye to eye, and in the year after that, GameCube might just have the upper hand.

No one can tell... we can only await, it's ridiculous to start an argument on what will happen on the future...

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Ninja


Actually, Nintendo has been doing a great deal in an attempt to catch up to Sony. In the first year alone, Nintendo has managed to get together enough software to rival Sony. They are also snatching up all the RPGs they can get their hands on. That should be immediately obvious considering who their new 2nd parties are.

I think that in another year, GameCube and PS2 will be standing eye to eye, and in the year after that, GameCube might just have the upper hand.

Of course, I agree that in all likelihood, Nintendo will never truly catch up in the RPG department, but I don't think that GameCube will dissapoint either. But there are other genres that are really shaping up nicely to trounce Sony.

IIRC we had a discussion in the dreamcast thread about the best both the consoles had to offer. PS2 was leading GC by the ratio 1:3.

In another two years, GC and PS2 MAY be standing eye to eye, and there is a minute chance that GC will overtake PS2. But we cannot exclude XXXBOX from the mix if we talk about the next 3 years....

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Fawad


IIRC we had a discussion in the dreamcast thread about the best both the consoles had to offer. PS2 was leading GC by the ratio 1:3.


I don't seem to remember it that way. Besides, Nintendo is only 7 points behind PS2 according to the rating given above. I can't see that gap getting any bigger in the next year, but I can certainly see it getting smaller. :D

You seem to underestimate the might of Nintendo's 1st and 2nd parties. Let's not forget the wealth of games that come from Capcom or the few but proud that come from Factor 5.

[Carnage]

the ps2 has also been around way longer then ngc or xbox so that also explains the portion of games...anyway,I know have the money to buy a ngc ,ps2 or xbox(why did I list xbox:eek: )and i'm 76% convinced to buy a ps2,not only because I love tekken games and I really badly want to play lotr:the two towers and devilmaycry2 anyway,its also because the gamecube doesnt have mod-chips...I'm a cheap bastard

[Kane]

>Let's not forget the wealth of games that come from Capcom.

You mean like Devil may Cry 2 on the PS2? Remember that was just a rumour. Capcom is supporting both machines around evenly.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> In another two years, GC and PS2 MAY be standing eye to eye, and there is a minute chance that GC will overtake PS2. But we cannot exclude XXXBOX from the mix if we talk about the next 3 years....

Good reasoning... well said, you CAN'T exclude XBOX and also you can't understimate the 2nd party companies that develop games for the PS2... the PS2 has to this date some of the best games avaible on the 3 systems... one can expect to see the quality of the games for that system to grow, not to stand waiting for the GC to overcome them... if they games for the PS2 keep going at this rate the gap won't be THAT small... at least that's how I see it, any other opinions would be apreciated...

[Carnage]

devil may cry2 was just a rumor???CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!!

[Kaiser Sigma]

Well... don't lose hope so easily... you know what they say about rumors... "if there's smoke, there may be fire"

[Kane]

No, I meant about Capcom defecting to Nintendo, Carnage.

[Ninjaa]

DMC2 is coming to PS2. Don't worry about that. And Carnage, please buy an Xbox. If you don't want to give money to developers who work hard to make games, then I would rather it be Xbox developers.

Good reasoning... well said, you CAN'T exclude XBOX and also you can't understimate the 2nd party companies that develop games for the PS2...

I wasn't aware that Sony had any really powerful 2nd parties. Could you please enlighten me?

[Carnage]

oh....I see:)

[Kaiser Sigma]

> I wasn't aware that Sony had any really powerful 2nd parties. Could you please enlighten me?

My bad I mistook 2nd for 3rd... 3rd party companies still provide GREAT support for the PS2...

[Carnage]

/And Carnage, please buy an Xbox. If you don't want to give money to developers who work hard to make games, then I would rather it be Xbox developers./
....ninja.....you totally lost me....what the hell are you talking about??

[ChrisRay]

I don't get this whole catch up thing. neither the Xbox nor the gamecube will ever have a chance to catch up with Sony in pure software titles. And They are not just gonna stop releasing titles.

If Nintendo or Xbox wanted to compete with Sony with software, They should have been made their systems at that time.

I doubt either system has a prayer of coming within shouting distance of the PS2.

[Carnage]

but then again,nintendo is concentrating only at creating games so they should bring some more good games out soon...*thinking about FFCC*

[Exophase]

Let's not forget that Capcom has more PS2 games slated than GCN ones.. didn't we go through this already?

- Exo

[ChrisRay]

Are you saying sony is concentrating on other stuff? You guys forget that just because they have the Sony brand name.

Sony Computer Entertainment is a division of sony which only concern is making the Playstation brand name a success.

Same with Microsoft. It's merely a division of Microsoft which is devoted to making the Xbox a success.

They work seperately from the actual company. But they are funded by the respective company.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> If Nintendo or Xbox wanted to compete with Sony with software, They should have been made their systems at that time.

Come to think of it... one can wonder if any of the 2 systems will ever catch up with the PS2... though I admit that the XBOX would have a bit more of trouble for that...

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> If Nintendo or Xbox wanted to compete with Sony with software, They should have been made their systems at that time.

Come to think of it... one can wonder if any of the 2 systems will ever catch up with the PS2... though I admit that the XBOX would have a bit more of trouble for that...


Software wise I don't see it. Unless Nintendo And Microsoft support the console well after the death of the PS2. Which I find highly unlikely.

But its been said. Microsoft didn't come into this expecting to beat the Ps2, But to become recognised as a brand name for gaming.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> But its been said. Microsoft didn't come into this expecting to beat the Ps2, But to become recognised as a brand name for gaming.

In the end they may achieve it... or at least that's what it seems...

[ChrisRay]

I think they are doing reasonably well in such a difficult market. I don't expect the market to be just handed to them. What microsoft does is no different than what Sony has done/is doing. Trying to expand their business practice beyond Software.

If they do become a successful brand name as they hope. They will have financial security outside the avenues of the software industry.

It's a good idea for any company to do that.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> If they do become a successful brand name as they hope. They will have financial security outside the avenues of the software industry.

Best part would be if they finally break up that thing about Japan being the entire center of the video game world... but maybe it's asking too much on my part...

[ChrisRay]

In My Opinion Japan has been losing its video game grounds for almost 2 years now. While alot here won't agree with me. Our American and European titles are becoming more and more interesting as we speak.

And they've been growing in popularity. Just giving it the time it deserves and continue supporting Our american/european economy and only good things can happen.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Well, that sounds good... too bad not many ppl think like that... but as I said, it's a good prospect for a future...

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
Well, that sounds good... too bad not many ppl think like that... but as I said, it's a good prospect for a future...

Well if you build it they will come. You just need to offer the product first.

Every business thinks alike. All things considering. For As long as Microsoft has been active in the gaming industry. They are doing incredibly well.

And obviously they are not going anywhere.

[ChrisRay]

December 20, 2002 - Xbox executives can pop a bottle of champagne. Apparently, people are diggin' the Xbox. The proof doesn't come from some over-enthusiastic PR spin or anyone's personal numbers. All you need do is take a look at the numbers and you'll see that Xbox is in the midst of crushing the GameCube.
According to the NPD Group, one of the most respected market research firms in the industry, November marked the seventh consecutive month Xbox outsold GameCube in terms of hardware and has outsold GameCube in software in all thirteen months of its existence. Selling nearly 500,000 consoles in November, Xbox nearly doubled its sales numbers from October. Xbox consoles have edged GameCube by 20% in total sales, a considerable gap, especially when you look at the great first-party titles Nintendo has managed to release this year.

In November, Xbox saw it's second best month of software sales to date, with 2.4 million units selling. That's 10% more than the GameCube, but still far below the might of PS2. In terms of GameCube versus Xbox, though, Microsoft's console has sold 34% more software overall than GameCube. The Xbox also maintains the highest attach rate to date for a console that's thirteen months old, with 4.7 games per unit sold.

Further proof of Microsoft's growing dominance over GameCube comes when comparing the two bundle offers. Microsoft's Xbox bundle that comes with Sega GT 2002 and Jet Set Radio Future has outsold the GameCube Mario bundle by 335,000 units or 131%. However, it should be noted that the GameCube bundle is not nearly as widely available, which could contribute to the wide gap.

The GameCube is often saddled with piss-poor ports of multi-platform games and it shows in terms of sales. The Xbox has managed 58% greater third-party sales than GameCube according to Microsoft.

Though Microsoft has yet to come close to the PS2 in terms of installed base, the big MS can take comfort in knowing their online programs has bested PS2 from the get-go. Comparing their first month of sales, Xbox Live outsold PS2 Network Adapters by 14% and the three major Live titles (Ghost Recon, MechAssault, and Unreal Championship) sold over 300,000 copies combined in just the last half of November and managed an astounding attach rate of 80%.

With far bigger titles on the horizon for Microsoft next year and very few big franchises left in Nintendo's bag for 2003, it could be an even merrier X-Mas for Microsoft a year from now. Of course, we'll be back to let you know how this little ol' console war is turning out.




IGN (http://xbox.ign.com/articles/380/380934p1.html )

[Syed Fawad]

Believe me, I wasn't shocked when I saw that little IGN at the bottom :D

[Ninjaa]

I seriously don't know how they get away with posting that drivel.

[Kane]

Who are we believe then, Ninja? You, who is 'probably drunk', and a self-confessed Nintendo Fanboy?
What figures are accurate then?

[Ninjaa]

I mean editorial comments like this. And no, I am not drunk today. ;)

The GameCube is often saddled with piss-poor ports of multi-platform games and it shows in terms of sales. The Xbox has managed 58% greater third-party sales than GameCube according to Microsoft.

[Kane]

>I mean editorial comments like....

Fair enuff

>And no, I am not drunk today

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Fawad
Believe me, I wasn't shocked when I saw that little IGN at the bottom :D

Of course. :) But you don't seriously think they are lying do you? ^_^

It's an Xbox site designed to curry favor for Xbox. :cool:

But I doubt they'd put NPD's reputation on the line if NPD did not release those figures.

[Syed Fawad]

I donno much about NPD but one thing lacking in those figures is the region about which they are talking....

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Fawad
I donno much about NPD but one thing lacking in those figures is the region about which they are talking....

North America :)

[ChrisRay]

Another article to support software claims. Looken for the NPD one as well

For a video game machine that isn't even a year old, software sales for the Xbox are growing at an unprecedented rate. According to a statement by Microsoft, the company's first foray into the video game console market is paying off handsomely in terms of software sales.
Figures from NDP Funworld support Microsoft's claim that the Xbox platform is selling software faster during it's first eight months on the U.S. market than any other console in history, to the tune of more than 10 million units worldwide. According to Microsoft, the number is closer to 20 million units

The Xbox also claims the distinction of having three titles pass the million-plus sales mark so early in a console's lifetime, which began November 2001. The titles include Microsoft's own "Halo: Combat Evolved", "Project Gotham Racing" and Tecmo's "Dead or Alive 3".

On the hardware front, the Xbox has sold 3.9 million units worldwide as of June 30, 2002 and was met with a 131 percent increase in U.S. sales after the $100 price cut. While admitting struggling in Japan and Europe, the company hopes that drastic price cuts will help the Xbox gain acceptance in those territories. Microsoft claims a 300 percent increase in sales in Europe after the price cuts but declined to provide firm totals.




(this supports the previous statement that Microsoft software sales have been ravaging for the last 13 months (at least 3 months prior to that)

http://www.gamemarketwatch.com/news/item.asp?nid=2535

[Exophase]

Do the software sale figures take into account the sheer number of games MS is giving away? If those are counted as sales then that's not very fair, because they don't really indicate that much of an interest in the specific games. Many of those may be completely empty sales. Maybe in addition to looking at sales we should look at profit margins as well, because even though MS is capable of buying sales that doesn't mean it's buying popularity at a similar rate.

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

For every report, there are always multiple ways of looking at it.

* The November NPD report of sales data from American retailers shows that Nintendo GameCube jumped more than three full percentage points in next generation console share...while Playstation 2 increased two percentage points...all at the expense of Microsoft’s Xbox...which lost five points of the market.

* Unit sales of Nintendo GameCube and Microsoft’s Xbox were dead even in November (468,000 units each) – despite Microsoft giving away two free games with their hardware.

* Nintendo GameCube also showed the biggest jump in software sales, climbing more than 150% over October totals...compared to 97% for the Xbox and 48% for PS2.

* With the smash entry of Metroid Prime, Nintendo GameCube is on track to have four new titles this year eclipse one half-million unit sales, while no new Xbox title has yet to reach that mark Both Metroid Prime for GCN (#2) and Metroid Fusion for GBA (#10) appeared among the top ten sellers for all game sales in November.

* With sell through of 1.3 million units, Game Boy Advance was as popular in November as Playstation 2. Game Boy represents 33% of the total hardware market. Nintendo held 46% of the total hardware share for the month of November, an increase of 11% over October. Sony held 42% (-6%) while Microsoft held only 12% (-5%).

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Exophase
Do the software sale figures take into account the sheer number of games MS is giving away? If those are counted as sales then that's not very fair, because they don't really indicate that much of an interest in the specific games. Many of those may be completely empty sales. Maybe in addition to looking at sales we should look at profit margins as well, because even though MS is capable of buying sales that doesn't mean it's buying popularity at a similar rate.

- Exo

Pull the profit charts up. (Do not pull up the Xbox sales profits because we already know they lose money)

strictly software, I can't find any information on that.

[ChrisRay]

I don't doubt either article is incorrect. Right now Xbox is making money in the software department. And Even Sega's figures show that the xbox software venture is doing a lot better than Gamecubes.

I doubt either console will fail. They are getting to the point where they have the installed base where developers are really gonna start taken an interest.

[Carnage]

well guys,i'm happy to say that I will soon get my own NGC!!!Together with ssbm and a memory card of course;)

[Kaiser Sigma]

Mmm... more ppl with a GC... maybe it's time for me and Chrisray to join Raedius by buying an XBOX ;)

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
Mmm... more ppl with a GC... maybe it's time for me and Chrisray to join Raedius by buying an XBOX ;)


Bleh I ain't buying any consoles till they have been out at least 4 years :)

Why wait for titles to be released when you can buy the console after they have all been released,

Same goes for any system.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Why wait for titles to be released when you can buy the console after they have all been released,

You know that I was just kidding right ?

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> Why wait for titles to be released when you can buy the console after they have all been released,

You know that I was just kidding right ?


Hard to say at times. :) So no ^_^

[_E_]

heh,...i leave this thread for a week and w00t! more than 11 pages get filled up. ..oh well, i cannot keep up with this, but I ll just say the following comments:

In November, Xbox saw it's second best month of software sales to date, with 2.4 million units selling. That's 10% more than the GameCube, but still far below the might of PS2. In terms of GameCube versus Xbox, though, Microsoft's console has sold 34% more software overall than GameCube. The Xbox also maintains the highest attach rate to date for a console that's thirteen months old, with 4.7 games per unit sold.

at this rate, Nintendo is losing to Xbox. and As i predicted on other older threads, the Xbox is standing up on its feet and is begining to hold Nintendo by its neck. and of course, I doubt MS is statisfied with this rate, I believe it will add even more support to irs console. as for Nintendo, there are some titles coming up, but we still dont know how far will these titles compete with the Xbox games. PS2 has secured its number 1 place for the next 2 years, but with MS putting all it weight into the fight, we might see Sony falling down from the top spot....( which is a personal predictment ofcourse)

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Hard to say at times. So no ^_^

*Nods head* Bastard...

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Kingstar
at this rate, Nintendo is losing to Xbox. and As i predicted on other older threads, the Xbox is standing up on its feet and is begining to hold Nintendo by its neck. and of course, I doubt MS is statisfied with this rate, I believe it will add even more support to irs console. as for Nintendo, there are some titles coming up, but we still dont know how far will these titles compete with the Xbox games. PS2 has secured its number 1 place for the next 2 years, but with MS putting all it weight into the fight, we might see Sony falling down from the top spot....( which is a personal predictment ofcourse)

You do realize that MS is losing it's marketshare in North America, the gap is widening in Japan, and the software library is thoroughly lacking right?

Seriously, GameCube has the Xbox beaten like the ***** it is when you think of the worldwide market. There's just no question about it.

[_E_]

Originally posted by Ninja


You do realize that MS is losing it's marketshare in North America, the gap is widening in Japan, and the software library is thoroughly lacking right?

Seriously, GameCube has the Xbox beaten like the ***** it is when you think of the worldwide market. There's just no question about it.

errmm.,.....as far as i am concerned, MS lost huge sums of money at the first year after launching he Xbox. nowdays, i see it standing up against the GC. If i am wrong someone correct me please./..

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Seriously, GameCube has the Xbox beaten like the ***** it is when you think of the worldwide market. There's just no question about it.

MS will be beaten when it's out of the video game industry... until then it'll loose or it will win a little... but it hasn't lost yet...

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Kingstar


errmm.,.....as far as i am concerned, MS lost huge sums of money at the first year after launching he Xbox. nowdays, i see it standing up against the GC. If i am wrong someone correct me please./..

It's losing more money than ever now. Each person would have to buy at least 5 games for their Xbox in order for MS to break even. That just hasn't happened yet.

In fact, last I heard, no new Xbox game has sold over 500,000 copies in North America. Nintendo had 4 games that hit that mark by the end of this year.

GameCube is far from losing, and Xbox is far from winning, even though they are giving away 3 free games with their console.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> GameCube is far from losing, and Xbox is far from winning, even though they are giving away 3 free games with their console.

So you say... but the reality is that unless MS sudenly decides to quit the challenge (not very likely) you won't get rid of them... they will keep going on... and you know what they... "if at first you don't succed then try, try again" (Renaissance Tarot Triumph Card)

[Ninjaa]

It's true that it's very unlikely that Xbox is going anywhere, but I have my doubts about an Xbox 2. Shareholders in MS will start to get very angry if Xbox is still losing money at the end of its life. If that happens, say bye bye to Microsoft.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> It's true that it's very unlikely that Xbox is going anywhere, but I have my doubts about an Xbox 2. Shareholders in MS will start to get very angry if Xbox is still losing money at the end of its life. If that happens, say bye bye to Microsoft.

Mmmm... okay Ninja... you need to get some sleep... "bye bye MS" ? That won't happen...

BTW... I checked the results of the poll for the very first time... the gap between the PS2 and the GC is quite big... I don't see it growing any smaller... as for the XBOX, well... it's what you'd expect from that system at this time...

[Ninjaa]

Kaiser, think about it.


ok, now think about it again, but this time logically. Are shareholders happy when their stock isn't rising as high as it should? Microsoft is a corporation. They are accountable to the shareholders.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> ok, now think about it again, but this time logically. Are shareholders happy when their stock isn't rising as high as it should? Microsoft is a corporation. They are accountable to the shareholders.

If video games were their only income... I wouldn't need to think about it... but since they have complete control over the OS area... they can afford to expend as much money as they want... but let's wait 1 or 2 years... then we will see who was right and who was wrong...

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> ok, now think about it again, but this time logically. Are shareholders happy when their stock isn't rising as high as it should? Microsoft is a corporation. They are accountable to the shareholders.

If video games were their only income... I wouldn't need to think about it... but since they have complete control over the OS area... they can afford to expend as much money as they want... but let's wait 1 or 2 years... then we will see who was right and who was wrong...


Kaiser. Microsoft made 800 Million Dollars last year on Windows alone. 500 Million on Microsoft Office. 90% Profit margin.


Microsofts entire loss on the Xbox doesn't even come within 10% of their gains for Windows last year alone. And thats being extremely pessististic.

I don't think the shareholders have much to worry about.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Kaiser. Microsoft made 800 Million Dollars last year on Windows alone. 500 Million on Microsoft Office. 90% Profit margin.

Heh, you got my point Chrisray... ok, I withdraw the "bastard" part ;)

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> Kaiser. Microsoft made 800 Million Dollars last year on Windows alone. 500 Million on Microsoft Office. 90% Profit margin.

Heh, you got my point Chrisray... ok, I withdraw the "bastard" part ;)


Just reiterating that No one is complaining about Microsoft and their profits :) Microsoft stock is still some of the most valuable stock on the market. And the Xbox hasn't changed that at all. Even with all the money they have lost.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Just reiterating that No one is complaining about Microsoft and their profits Microsoft stock is still some of the most valuable stock on the market. And the Xbox hasn't changed that at all. Even with all the money they have lost.

I can't understand how is it that ppl can't see that only some kind of holocaust will make MS lose a bit (and only a bit) of money... but, nevermind me...

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> Just reiterating that No one is complaining about Microsoft and their profits Microsoft stock is still some of the most valuable stock on the market. And the Xbox hasn't changed that at all. Even with all the money they have lost.

I can't understand how is it that ppl can't see that only some kind of holocaust will make MS lose a bit (and only a bit) of money... but, nevermind me...


Well all its gonna take is Real competition for microsoft in the software business. Hell Even apple is paying Microsoft to put Software in their machines.

It just isn't going to happen anytime soon.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Well all its gonna take is Real competition for microsoft in the software business. Hell Even apple is paying Microsoft to put Software in their machines.

Really ? I didn't knew that... heh, Apple paying MS... that's quite the sight.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> Well all its gonna take is Real competition for microsoft in the software business. Hell Even apple is paying Microsoft to put Software in their machines.

Really ? I didn't knew that... heh, Apple paying MS... that's quite the sight.


It was actually a contract between Microsoft and Apple. Microsoft buys a part of apple to keep Apple afloat. Also Investing in apple helps their competition so they are not a monopoly persay.

Apple sells out and uses Microsoft software such internet explorer, Out look express ect, to make their operating system more apealing.

Both companies won in the deal.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Both companies won in the deal.

But then again, MS won a bit more ;)

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> Both companies won in the deal.

But then again, MS won a bit more ;)


Yup. Microsoft makes money with each apple computer AND each IBM computer sold nowadays. You really can't beat the profits. $$$

Anyway. Back on topic. Microsoft is completely commited to making the Xbox a success. They are not backing out of the industry now. Not when they have their claws on some of the market now.

It wouldn't make sense from a business perspective to back out at this point anyway.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Tsk, shareholders ;)

[Kraiger Drago]

Ah, the good ol UNHOLY MS profit margin. Walmart operates on a 2% profit margin; MS operartes on 85%. But they are supposed to be LOSING money on Xboxes right? So exactly where does the accountability come in? I mean, the aforementioned shareholders SHOULD have something to say about it.

Also, I started thinking about this: exactly WHY did MS enter the console market? Did they enter it to become a dominant presence in another field? Was simplying having the OS market their own personal b i t c h not enough? Or was it simply to make more money? It wasn't to make games, thats for sure. (If this has been talked about before, just point me to the previous thread)

[ChrisRay]

Also, I started thinking about this: exactly WHY did MS enter the console market? Did they enter it to become a dominant presence in another field? Was simplying having the OS market their own personal b i t c h not enough? Or was it simply to make more money? It wasn't to make games, thats for sure. (If this has been talked about before, just point me to the previous thread)

I can answer this with one quick answer. Profit and stability outside one market.

This is the exact same reason Sony makes more than CD players and Stereos. Believe it if you will. But having your grips down in another market will actually improve your reliability of your stock.

Making it that much more valuable. The Share holders are NOT complaining.


Ah, the good ol UNHOLY MS profit margin. Walmart operates on a 2% profit margin; MS operartes on 85%. But they are supposed to be LOSING money on Xboxes right? So exactly where does the accountability come in? I mean, the aforementioned shareholders SHOULD have something to say about it.

There's more to it than that, Windows Sells itself. You cannot compare it to retail like Wal Mart. Microsoft makes a product and makes 85% profit off that paticular product.

The Profit margin for that is WINDOWS and Microsoft Office alone. It's not accountable for their MSN And Xbox venture. Which consequently have both lost microsoft money.

But as I stated before. The losses are not enough in comparison to the gains Microsoft is getting by Windows Alone.

MSN has just started to turn a profit. And Microsoft's dedication to the network is starting to pay off for them.

This is exactly what Microsoft hopes to achieve with the Xbox, a Venture into a very profitable industry, Which will help their shares remain stable should one market plunder.

It's a very wise business decision. Resting on your single success is not a wise decision for any company that wants to stay afloat during the long run.

Hence Microsoft's aggressive entry into the internet and Console business.

[Kraiger Drago]

That answer works for me :)

As for the question of the shareholders- It depends just how much MS is losing on the Xbox (a figure I am sure they will never make public). To quote Burgess Meredith as the Penguin: "Even a Millionaire blinks at $25,000 (it involved solid gold Tank Shells, really weird)" point being, if they lose too much money, there WILL be repercussions, though they may never be known to the public. The MSN thing is an interesting paralell. They will never get rid of AOL since AOL is so entrenched in the ISP market; they even have AOL in other countries (I mean, they Still call it America Online, in the UK. Those ads were always so surreal); Just like they will never replace Sony in the Console market.

There are three console superpowers, and they will remain for the next 10 years. After that, I will be too old and set in my ways to care anymore :D

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kraiger Drago
That answer works for me :)

As for the question of the shareholders- It depends just how much MS is losing on the Xbox (a figure I am sure they will never make public). To quote Burgess Meredith as the Penguin: "Even a Millionaire blinks at $25,000 (it involved solid gold Tank Shells, really weird)" point being, if they lose too much money, there WILL be repercussions, though they may never be known to the public. The MSN thing is an interesting paralell. They will never get rid of AOL since AOL is so entrenched in the ISP market; they even have AOL in other countries (I mean, they Still call it America Online, in the UK. Those ads were always so surreal); Just like they will never replace Sony in the Console market.

There are three console superpowers, and they will remain for the next 10 years. After that, I will be too old and set in my ways to care anymore :D


Actually their losses were posted. I could give you a link but its the archives of their news section and you have to pay for it.

The prospected losses were like 45 million between MSN and the Xbox for the last 2 years, While Windows Made 800 Million Dollars and Microsoft Office made 475 Million.

Making such enormous profits pretty much allows microsoft to lose whatever they want.

I'm sure the shareholders were briefed on the Xbox anyway And were well aware of the long term investment of it.

[Carnage]

GameCube - Most Owned Games
1. Super Smash Bros. Melee
- Nintendo
2. Super Mario Sunshine
- Nintendo
3. Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader
- LucasArts
4. Resident Evil
- Capcom Entertainment
5. Metroid Prime
- Nintendo
6. Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
- Nintendo
7. Animal Crossing
- Nintendo
8. Star Fox Adventures
- Nintendo
9. Pikmin
- Nintendo
10. Super Monkey Ball
- Sega

GameCube - Most Wanted Games
1. Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
- Nintendo
2. Metroid Prime
- Nintendo
3. Resident Evil Zero
- Capcom Entertainment
4. Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
- Square
5. Mario Kart for GameCube
- Nintendo
6. TimeSplitters 2
- Eidos Interactive
7. Star Fox Adventures
- Nintendo
8. Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II
- Sega
9. Animal Crossing
- Nintendo
10. Super Mario Sunshine
- Nintendo


PS2 - Most Owned Games
1. Grand Theft Auto III
- Rockstar Games
2. Final Fantasy X
- Square Electronic Arts
3. Gran Turismo 3 A-spec
- Sony Computer Entertainment
4. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
- Konami
5. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
- Rockstar Games
6. Devil May Cry
- Capcom Entertainment
7. Kingdom Hearts
- Square Electronic Arts
8. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
- Activision
9. Twisted Metal: Black
- Sony Computer Entertainment
10. Virtua Fighter 4
- Sega

PS2 - Most Wanted Games
1. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
- Rockstar Games
2. Devil May Cry 2
- Capcom Entertainment
3. Kingdom Hearts
- Square Electronic Arts
4. Final Fantasy X-2
- Square
5. Final Fantasy XI
- Square Electronic Arts
6. Xenosaga Episode 1: Der Wille Zur Macht
- Namco
7. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
- Activision
8. Suikoden III
- Konami
9. WWE SmackDown! Shut Your Mouth
- THQ
10. Shinobi
- Sega


Xbox - Most Owned Games
1. Halo
- Microsoft
2. Dead or Alive 3
- Tecmo
3. Jet Set Radio Future
- Sega
4. Splinter Cell
- Ubi Soft
5. Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
- Bethesda Softworks
6. Project Gotham Racing
- Microsoft
7. MechAssault
- Microsoft
8. NFL 2K3
- Sega
9. RalliSport Challenge
- Microsoft
10. Xbox Live
- Microsoft

Xbox - Most Wanted Games
1. Halo 2
- Microsoft
2. Splinter Cell
- Ubi Soft
3. Fable
- Microsoft
4. Unreal Championship
- Infogrames
5. Panzer Dragoon Orta
- Sega
6. Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball
- Tecmo
7. MechAssault
- Microsoft
8. Steel Battalion
- Capcom Entertainment
9. Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance
- Konami
10. Xbox Live
- Microsoft

[Kaiser Sigma]

Nice list... where did you get it ? It's quite good...

[Quatro]

maybe from gamespot, hotgames, ign or other site that rate games...

[Kaiser Sigma]

> maybe from gamespot, hotgames, ign or other site that rate games...

Speaking about Gamespot... heheheh DoA Volleyball is on top of the main top 10...

[Ryos]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
Speaking about Gamespot... heheheh DoA Volleyball is on top of the main top 10... It is? BUWAHAHA, that says so much about Gamespot's "taste" in games. :p Well, that or the fact Xb0x has nothing remotely interesting coming out for it. ;)

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Ryos
It is? BUWAHAHA, that says so much about Gamespot's "taste" in games. :p Well, that or the fact Xb0x has nothing remotely interesting coming out for it. ;)


Well the game is actually fairly fun. Almost like picken up Virtua Tennis. Of course the naked girls.. are there ^_^ At least the demo was fun.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> It is? BUWAHAHA, that says so much about Gamespot's "taste" in games. Well, that or the fact Xb0x has nothing remotely interesting coming out for it

Actually that was my point... but what did you expected ? they gave CC a 10 back then...

[Ryos]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
Well the game is actually fairly fun. Almost like picken up Virtua Tennis. Of course the naked girls.. are there ^_^ I'd make a comment about how all the comments about the game's gameplay are a euphemism for the real reason most people will be playing the game, but I'm sure the official ads are already going to do that. :p

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Ryos
I'd make a comment about how all the comments about the game's gameplay are a euphemism for the real reason most people will be playing the game, but I'm sure the official ads are already going to do that. :p

You know honestly. I'd be surprised if a game like this wouldn't do well in Japan. Simply by what it is. But don't discount it completely.

But from what I have seen of the game. There's a whole story behind it, Some team do very badly together,

Ayana And Helena.

I hear its actually kinda like a volleyball game with a simulation feel to it.

[Kaiser Sigma]

The game may or may not prove to be fun... but even though ppl criticize the idea, it can't be neglected that the pretty females of the game are the ones who will sell the game itself...

[Carnage]

yep,I got the list from IGN;) And yesterday,I whent to the dutch site of nintendo,I registerd myself(260 stars weeee!!)and I whent to the gamecube forum of the site...but what I and manyb others saw in that forum that there where lots of xbox fanboys and they where totally destroying the whole forum...they post threads like "sunshine sucks"and then they say its totally *** and for losers and stuff like that,they also constantly say that sony and especially ngc don't stand a chance against the xbox,and that sort of crap...I don't get it,its the official dutch nintendo site and they come bashing the ngc here...don't they know of the existence of something called...a xbox forum????really,I'm only registerd about one day and I already feel like Ninja,protecting the forum of mindless xbox zombies.....

[systemid]

hahaha. Well i dont understand how those people could say that xbox will kill sony. They are pretty stupid bastards. Anyway you should unleash ninja on those guys they will get flamed like never before.

[Carnage]

I already flamed them like they have never experienced before:evil: By telling them the truth about xbox and M$....but first I had to explain them what M$ means:rolleyes: *zucht*

[Ninjaa]

Heh. Reminds me of my experience in the Tecmo forums. :D I'm proud of you Carnage. It doesn't speak well for Nintendo of Europe to let that continue though. Wherever Xbox fans collect should be like nuked or something.

[Carnage]

in our country we have a saying but I don't know how to translate it...here it is:"onkruid vergaat niet" I hope somebody else could translate it

edit:the saying applys to xbox fanboys and M$;)

[Carnage]

jezus christ....I just whent back to the other forum and there was a thread called :"ngc on the pc??"and I tought in myself omg...I told them that the only way it would come on pc is trough an emu but they didnt really understand...I also said all the legal illegal stuff and told them there is no ngc emulater,and one of them posted this ....."but there is an n64 emulater called Bleem as I recall..."LOL!!!!But there was more...after that somebody posted this "yes,I have also seen n64 emulaters and roms on a site,but they cost so much money!!!its almost so expensive as the real thing!!!"LOL!!!!!!:D :D I now told them some basic stuff about emulaters and whats legal and whats not legal and stuff....this is so damn funny:D

[systemid]

what dumbasses you should have told them you were selling roms of n64 games for half the price then had them send you money.

[Carnage]

did I forgot to tell that they also believe you can download ngc games with a special kabel,and then play them on your pc with that special kable:D never tought that people can be so stupid

[systemid]

where the hell do people hear crap like that? It would seem they just pulled it out of their asses

[Ninjaa]

Carnage, I would actually prefer that people who are that seriously misinformed about N64 emulation stay that way. Given that legal N64 is extremely difficult, I don't think it helps my cause very much. :/

Do they talk english at all on that forum? I might want to show up there and give them a tongue lashing at some point.

[systemid]

if you do so ninja please create a thread all about it.

[Carnage]

no,the forum is dutch,but I must say its a lame forum...no mods...

[Kamina]

Might as well flood them with silly english insults, or japanese insults just for GP.

As for this post I picked PS2. Nothing too complex, I liked a lot of PSX rpgs and figured the PS2 would have the most for the first year or two.

Mind you, I'm still routing for the gamecube since I have such fond memories of my snes.

Also, while I'm not exactly fond of the X-box, the fact that they've got a Megami Tensei game coming out for it (albeit in japan) has done a lot to improve my opinion of it.

[Ninjaa]

Yeah, I tried to log in there, but I couldn't read most of it. It didn't seem to accept my username and password that I created in Nintendo's UK site either. I did manage to get them to send me my password, but it still didn't work. :D I was going to use babelfish to translate english flaming into german, and then post that, just to confuse the matter. ;)

[Ninjaa]

Woo Hoo! I finally got logged in. Carnage, can you direct me around to some of these threads? I can't understand a word, but I want to flame them real bad. ;)

[Dr. Drizzay]

Ninja don't you have something better to do with your life?

[Carnage]

Ninja,its dutch not german(BIG difference)And I could help you translate some texts from dutch to english(and from english to dutch)And the sub-forum that has "gamecube" in its name,is the one i'm usually in;) And I hope that you didnt register youreself into the german site,cause then you will have to register to the dutch one....

btw:sorry that I wasnt online much guys,I'm having a health problem

[Ninjaa]

Yeah, I know that it's Dutch, but I know a single Dutch person, and she can usually get by German without much difficulty. ;)

Near as I can tell, all of Nintendo-Europe's site is connected together, so you only need one ID. I registered on Nintendo UK, and I can go anwhere from there.

Sorry to hear that you aren't feeling well. I hope it's nothing serious.

And Dr. Drizzay, stop trolling and go do something productive.

[_E_]

Originally posted by Ninja
Yeah, I know that it's Dutch, but I know a single Dutch person, and she can usually get by German without much difficulty. ;)

Near as I can tell, all of Nintendo-Europe's site is connected together, so you only need one ID. I registered on Nintendo UK, and I can go anwhere from there.

Sorry to hear that you aren't feeling well. I hope it's nothing serious.

And Dr. Drizzay, stop trolling and go do something productive.

Ninja,...you know what? most forums I see have PS2 vs Xbox disccussions,....GC is negelected and Nintendo fanboys are rare to see. Ngemu.com was the only exception o have a VERY loyal nintendo fanboy :)

[Ninjaa]

Heh. Nintendo fans are still out there, but most of us have been around for so long that we no longer see a point in this constant bickering. You have to remember that most Nintendo fans are a LOT older than Sony or MS fans. Yet I always find comfort in the PGC forums, as there are nary an Xbox or PS2 fan to be found. :D It's really a pleasant blend of Sega and Nintendo fans. :)

[_E_]

Originally posted by Ninja
Heh. Nintendo fans are still out there, but most of us have been around for so long that we no longer see a point in this constant bickering. You have to remember that most Nintendo fans are a LOT older than Sony or MS fans. Yet I always find comfort in the PGC forums, as there are nary an Xbox or PS2 fan to be found. :D It's really a pleasant blend of Sega and Nintendo fans. :)

heh,....good bless any sony/xbox fan who approachs this forum :D
Ninja, I am a sega fan myself. would you mind giving me the link to the forum?

[jegHegy]

i was afraid to look at this thread, because i hate posting to threads i didn't read from the start, but whatever ^_^
i voted for the PS2. it's development scene is growing pretty fast, and it's big already (like the emulators for it, media player, and whatnot), and it has a LOT of the games i really want to play, and even more for the PSX. if i'd get a next-gen console, i'd surely buy a PS2.

nyaa

[Ninjaa]

Tokimune, wtf!

Originally posted by Kingstar
heh,....good bless any sony/xbox fan who approachs this forum :D
Ninja, I am a sega fan myself. would you mind giving me the link to the forum?

Heh. Sure. Right here. (www.planetgamecube.com)

My username is Grey Ninja. You will usually find me lurking in the GameCube Discussion forum.

[_E_]

Originally posted by Ninja
Tokimune, wtf!



Heh. Sure. Right here. (www.planetgamecube.com)

My username is Grey Ninja. You will usually find me lurking in the GameCube Discussion forum.

thanks,...but how come your profile is different? I thought your first name is dave?

[Ninjaa]

Heh. Whenever my name is asked on the internet, I always give it as Clyde Arrowny. The name should be familiar to some, but it's not my real name. My real name is indeed Dave Brady.

Man, this thread is empty these days. Maybe I'll start something with JegHegy.

i was afraid to look at this thread, because i hate posting to threads i didn't read from the start, but whatever ^_^
i voted for the PS2. it's development scene is growing pretty fast, and it's big already (like the emulators for it, media player, and whatnot), and it has a LOT of the games i really want to play, and even more for the PSX. if i'd get a next-gen console, i'd surely buy a PS2.

The PS2's development scene is growing fast because they don't have all the 3rd party restrictions that Nintendo does. Nintendo demands that 3rd parties be competent at programming and making games.

[_E_]

Originally posted by Ninja
Man, this thread is empty these days. Maybe I'll start something with JegHegy.

The PS2's development scene is growing fast because they don't have all the 3rd party restrictions that Nintendo does. Nintendo demands that 3rd parties be competent at programming and making games.

well,..the PS2 backward compability, DVD playback and large games library gave more bang to the buck. I think this is the main reason....Developers always go for the best selling console

oh and BTW: This forum of yours is scary, pack-jammed with nintendo fanboys, obviously, you are nothing in comparison to them :heh:

http://pub89.ezboard.com/fpgcforumsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=9658.topic

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Kingstar
well,..the PS2 backward compability, DVD playback and large games library gave more bang to the buck. I think this is the main reason....Developers always go for the best selling console

Backward compatability: If you own PSOne games, I am assuming you already have a way of playing them.

DVD Playback: It's crappy DVD quality, and compatability is lower than most would like on older PS2s. Besides, I want a console to play games, not movies.

Large Game Library: Nintendo has over 90 games for GCN I believe. That number has a pretty high quality to crap ratio as well.

Sales: I always can't help but wonder how many of those sales are replacements for busted PSX/PS2s. ;)

[_E_]

Originally posted by Ninja


Backward compatability: If you own PSOne games, I am assuming you already have a way of playing them.

DVD Playback: It's crappy DVD quality, and compatability is lower than most would like on older PS2s. Besides, I want a console to play games, not movies.

Large Game Library: Nintendo has over 90 games for GCN I believe. That number has a pretty high quality to crap ratio as well.

Sales: I always can't help but wonder how many of those sales are replacements for busted PSX/PS2s. ;)

Backward compability: yes i do know a way, but not everyone in this world knows about ePSXe.

DVD Playback: Its a bonus feature. I dont care about it either, but it sure save people alot of money getting a brand new DVD player

Large Game library: IMO, 90 isnt enough. you wont like all these 90 games, would you?

[Kane]

>Backward compatability: If you own PSOne games, I am assuming you already have a way of playing them.

Yes, but it then means you can flog your old PSX/ PSone and still keep our favorite games.

[Dr. Drizzay]

Originally posted by Ninja
Heh. Whenever my name is asked on the internet, I always give it as Clyde Arrowny. The name should be familiar to some, but it's not my real name. My real name is indeed Dave Brady.

Man, this thread is empty these days. Maybe I'll start something with JegHegy.



The PS2's development scene is growing fast because they don't have all the 3rd party restrictions that Nintendo does. Nintendo demands that 3rd parties be competent at programming and making games.

Actually it's propably because that asks for 3rd party developers to pay to make those stupid GC cdroms. Just a cheap ploy for Nintendo to make money.

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Dr. Drizzay


Actually it's propably because that asks for 3rd party developers to pay to make those stupid GC cdroms. Just a cheap ploy for Nintendo to make money.

Gotta love these arguments with no actual factual background. Do you have any proof of these claims? Because I am convinced otherwise.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Actually it's propably because that asks for 3rd party developers to pay to make those stupid GC cdroms. Just a cheap ploy for Nintendo to make money.

You are asking for flames man... but if I'm not mistaken this isn't your first time doing it.

[SkyeHack]

PS2 has more features then any other console out there so i must vote for PS2 and i also own one and am a satisified customer!

[Kaiser Sigma]

At this point there's no war... it doesn't matter the console, if you enjoy it then that console won the war... in the end it all comes to your taste...

[SkyeHack]

the war isnt with the consoles. the war is with the software. it shouldnt be which console is better but what games are better you know. its all about gameplay and all 3 consoles have the graphics.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Agree, but even so, the software will win depending on the gamer's taste. I know ppl that enjoy their XBOXs while some think that it doesn't have what it takes (IMO it doesn't have a strong title yet)... but if they are happy with their machine no one should take that away from them.

[SkyeHack]

i wonder what people would favor if it was their PC or their favorite console, which they would choose?

[Kaiser Sigma]

There's a thread on that... on page 3 or 4... I think it ended in a tie.

[SkyeHack]

yea your right. it ended 21 to 19 computers. interesting.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Yeah, it's a pity that not everyone voted... I'd have loved to see that thread to its full extent...

[Ninjaa]

I think that a problem with that thread is that many people saw the computer as being a source of emulated games, when in fact according to the initial question, you wouldn't be able to have console games regardless of emulators.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
Yeah, it's a pity that not all the everyone voted... I'd have loved to see that thread to its full extent...

You know I was looking at my latest PCgamer, It amazes me. Even during slow months, you can get about 5-6 PC games a month. This Xmas season the PC saw over 147 titles in 4 months. Really. You simply cannot beat its software lineup.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Yeah, I know... and to think that ppl think that only Consoles get the major quantity of games...

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
Yeah, I know... and to think that ppl think that only Consoles get the major quantity of games...


Nice thing about PCS is Microsoft Sony, and sega don't view them as competition. I'm not too sure about Nintendo on that. But I don't think NIntendo worries much about the PC either.

The beauty of that is even exclusive titles for consoles somehow manage to end up on PC.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Well I haven't thought about it, but it's true: they don't have the c**p problems of competence... somehow it's... refreshing.

[ShadySaiyan]

I haven't posted in ages so I'll just say this, I can't really pick between PS2 or Gamecube. PS2 has a crapload of games and not all of them are good, but plenty of them are. Also my PS2 is off getting repaired right now and this is my third one! So I have a slight problem with the quality of parts in the PS2. Gamecube on the other hand is a good solid system, Nintendo has always leaned towards quality, rather than easily busted systems, you have a good system with a better quality vs. # of games ratio than PS2. In time, when it has more games I can see the possibility of Gamecube taking the lead due to the quality of its games. As for Xbox I am a little more than biased against it, so for the sake of peace I will say nothing in that area.

P.S. Ninja have you seen any pics of the Gameboy Advance SP? If so, what is your opinion on it?

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by SkyeHack
i wonder what people would favor if it was their PC or their favorite console, which they would choose?

PC is the obvious choice. Not only it has the best graphics of the multiport games, the startegy, online and FPS simply define PC gaming.

Still I prefer conosles. May be because wrestling sucks on PC.

[Syed Fawad]

Found this at IGN. Interesting. Is it true?


January 08, 2003 - The PlayStation 2 enjoyed substantial success in the United States during the 2002 holiday season, Sony Computer Entertainment America announced in its annual press release touting the successes of the previous year. More than four million PS2s sold through at retail in November and December -- approximately one million in November and three million in December. Those sales represent a 42% growth over the same period in 2001.
Worldwide, approximately 8.5 million units of hardware were sold during the two months. 3.4 million units sold in Europe, a 27% increase over the previous year, and 940,000 units sold in Japan, a 27% decrease. The drop in Japanese sales, even over that country's lengthier shopping season (through the first week of January) indicates that the console is reaching the saturation point in its home country -- i.e., as many customers own PS2s as are likely to buy game consoles.

Sony remains on track to meet its planned worldwide shipping target of 22.5 million consoles in the fiscal year ending March 2003, and expects to turn a profit of 180 billion yen this fiscal year, a 10-fold increase over the previous year.

A total of 45 million units of PS2 software were sold from the beginning of the year through the end of November in the United States, increasing the system's software-to-hardware tie ratio (the average number of games owned by each console owner) to 7.7. More than 200,000 players reportedly made their way online using the PS2 Network Adaptor (some of them players of the more than 700,000 units of SOCOM: US Navy SEALs sold by the end of the year), and demand for the peripheral remained strong, with more than 400,000 units shipped to retail by the end of the year.

"We operate our business based on the fundamental belief that great games drive consumer purchase decisions. As Sony Computer Entertainment America evaluates our eighth holiday selling season in tangible measures, we affirm yet again the value of our approach to our partners," said Jack Tretton, executive vice president, Sony Computer Entertainment America. "In the new year we will raise the bar in interactive entertainment even higher as we delve into exciting new internal development and licensee opportunities to grow our platform businesses."

The original PlayStation, meanwhile, enjoyed brisk sales for an eight-year-old console, selling nearly one million units in November and December.

[Ninjaa]

Syed, yes, it is true. A console's second year is usually the biggest selling one, and then sales wane from there. Expect GameCube to overtake the PS2 in the upcoming year.

Originally posted by ShadySaiyan
P.S. Ninja have you seen any pics of the Gameboy Advance SP? If so, what is your opinion on it?

Yes I have. I would be getting one if I didn't already have a GBA. The clamshell design and lit screen are big turn ons. I get a wood just thinking about them. I have been told it's a comfortable device to play, so my initial misgivings about the design are better now. The only thing that still bothers me about it is the lithium battery.

[_E_]

Well, I wonder if the GBA SP would have any "graphical" differenced between it and the current GBA. To me, its just like redesigning the GBA, but not improving it...........better save my money for the next version...........

[Ninjaa]

No, that's exactly what it is. Like the GB Pocket. You weren't required to buy one at all, but if you didn't already have one, then it was a good buy. The GBA has only been out for a year and a half. If they made a new GameBoy console at this point, I would be seriously pissed off. A redesign is always good.

[_E_]

well,...whenever a new console will come out soon,...redesigns and add-ons flow in the market for its previous version before that new console comes out, and i find that scary. Its not nessecarily to happen with the GBA, but i m not pushing my luck as i had a terrible experience ( getting the 32x add on for my Mega Drive 6 months before the saturn came.....that was a hard one)

[Ninjaa]

Sega had a habit of doing that. For the GameBoy, redesigns usually happen in the systems mid-life, and then is replaced a few years later. I would think that the GBA will live to be at least 4 years old, if not the full 5.

[Dr. Drizzay]

Originally posted by Ninja


Gotta love these arguments with no actual factual background. Do you have any proof of these claims? Because I am convinced otherwise.

Look up on Dark Watcher he'll put you up on the "TRUTH"

[Ninjaa]

No proof, no credit. I have actually been told that the CDs cost pennies to make by GameCube developers, so it's not like I am just pulling this out of my ass. I would provide a link, but I am enjoying this way too much.

[_E_]

Originally posted by Dr. Drizzay


Look up on Dark Watcher he'll put you up on the "TRUTH"

well,...even if ninja was wrong, you should prove your statements before attacking him. You dont have to speak to ninja that way,...thats just like asking for trouble..

[Dr. Drizzay]

Jesus I'm just playing around with him. It's not like I want to see him suffer!!

[Exophase]

Originally posted by Ninja
Syed, yes, it is true. A console's second year is usually the biggest selling one, and then sales wane from there. Expect GameCube to overtake the PS2 in the upcoming year.

A console's second year is usually the biggest selling one? Well I'm going to use your line here Ninja, give us the proof. Name one system this has applied to. NES? No. SNES? No. Genesis? No. Gameboy? No. GBC? Probably, because the thing was half dead at release. N64? Perhaps. Playstation? I don't think so, Ninja. Why should we expect GCN to overtake PS2 in the upcoming year? What does GCN have that will destroy PS2? I guess we're all still waiting on a Megaton announcement or two to save Nintendo, right?

I'll wait till the end of this year, then when PS2 is still beating GCN I'll wait till the end of the next, and eventually you'll lose this silly notion of your's...

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

The GCN has Zelda, Skies of Arcadia, Tales of Phantasia, Pokemon, Star Fox, F-Zero, Pikmin 2, Animal Crossing 2, and POKEMON next year. Why shouldn't sales improve?

And that's just something I was told. I don't have sales data to back it up, and neither do you. Frankly, I could care less, as my point still stands that GCN is going to be doing some serious butt kicking next year.

[Kane]

>The GCN has Zelda, Skies of Arcadia, Tales of Phantasia, Pokemon, Star Fox, F-Zero, Pikmin 2, Animal Crossing 2, and POKEMON next year. Why shouldn't sales improve?

And the PS2 doesn't have games to compete?
Solely looking at the games I want which are due to be released:
.hack Volumes 1-4, Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter, Dragon Quest VIII, Final Fantasy X-2, Star Ocean: Till the End of Time, Tales of Destiny 2, Unlimited SaGa, Xenosaga - Episode I: Der Wille zur Macht.
Sony's market share isn't just gonna suddenly dissapear. If, and this is an if, Nintendo do end up on top, it'll be a slow thing.

[Quatro]

well hope this list from NPDFunworldSM TRSTS ®Service would help based on this aricle released on Nov 19, 2002:

Top 10 Best Selling Video Game Titles, Ranked by Total U.S. Units
January - October 2002

Rank
Title
Publisher
Release Date
ARP

1
PS2 Grand Theft Auto 3
Rockstar Games
Oct. '01
$50

2
PS2 Madden NFL 2003
Electronic Arts
Aug. '02
$49

3
PS2 Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Rockstar Games
Oct. '02
$48

4
PS2 Medal Honor Frontline
Electronic Arts
May '02
$50

5
GBA Super Mario Advance 2
Nintendo of America
Feb. '02
$30

6
PS2 Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec
Sony Computer Ent.
July '01
$26

7
PS2 Spider-Man: The Movie
Activision
Apr. '02
$49

8
XBX Halo
Microsoft
Nov. '01
$49

9
GCN Super Mario Sunshine
Nintendo of America
Aug. '02
$50

10
PS2 Final Fantasy X
Square EA
Dec. '01
$50

[Exophase]

The GCN has Zelda, Skies of Arcadia, Tales of Phantasia, Pokemon, Star Fox, F-Zero, Pikmin 2, Animal Crossing 2, and POKEMON next year. Why shouldn't sales improve?

You mean, why wouldn't sales improve over PS2's?

Zelda - Yay, number 7 in the charts. Good but not good enough.
Skies of Arcadia - It's a port! A port will NEVER be a top seller. Ever.
Pokemon - We'll see if this game manages to sell as ridiculously as it has been when it's taken away from its target market (handhelds). Sure, it'll do well, but turn everything around.. I don't think so.
Star Fox - ... yeah, I don't really see very amazing things in this one's future.
F-Zero - Watch it be a rehashing of F-Zero X.. Nintendo is getting great at throwing the exact same game at you again and again. Tell me, how well does F-Zero do in Japan again, Ninja?
Pikmin 2 - Niche game.
Animal Crossing 2 - Even more niche game.
Pokemon - URRGH, no, capping a game doesn't mean you can use it twice. Sorry.

And that's just something I was told. I don't have sales data to back it up, and neither do you.

Ahem.. why should I be the one backing it up when you were the one who said it? Why don't we just pretend you didn't say anything because that statement was obviously BS in its purest form.

Frankly, I could care less, as my point still stands that GCN is going to be doing some serious butt kicking next year.

Point.. you don't have anything that even resembles a point, just more hearsay. PS2's STAGGERING LEAD is going to vanish.. right? Poor naive fanboy.. sorry, PS2's got momentum that Nintendo seriously lacks. If Nintendo was going to overthrow anything it would have done it by now. But I'll be around to tell you this, in a year. Just don't change your mind by then, okay?

- Exo

[Exophase]

Rawr, I forgot the Tales of Phantasia game. Well all I have to say about that is Tales of Destiny 2. I guess you think somehow the GCN one will fare better because it has to, because developers will always put more effort on their GCN games than their PS2 ones (like Square, right?)

- Exo

[Syed Fawad]

I think that GC's main competition is against XBOX now :D

About Quatro's post,

The top 4 are PS2 games, and 7 out of the top 10 are also PS2 games. Impressive.

[Ninjaa]

ok, I will just say I was wrong about the second year thing. I don't really care enough to find any sales data. Frankly, I think it's beneath both of us to be even bickering over it.

As for the games I listed, regardless of what you think, each one of them is a strong title for the system. And I think you must agree that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Nintendo has some great games already, and the ones next year are going to be even greater. I fail to see why this is even being argued?

[Kaiser Sigma]

> The top 4 are PS2 games, and 7 out of the top 10 are also PS2 games. Impressive.

Not just that, GTA3 is still on top... and to think that some ppl doesn't want to see it as THE title just because it's quite violent...

[Quatro]

yeah...GTA3... the most controversial game at present because of the violence in the game...

>Nintendo has some great games already, and the ones next year are going to be even greater. I fail to see why this is even being argued?

well that one was for the last year data, this year will be more competitive as ever and its not a suprise that Nintendo can bounce up this year... and also Xbox.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Well said.

[Exophase]

Ninja, GCN has strong titles but PS2 has at least as many. And you're saying why are we arguing what, this "fact" of your's that GCN will overtake PS2? If you really think that's not worth arguing then you're too zealous.

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

Equally well said...

[Quatro]

your just adding a word to what you earlier said :D

well PS2 will still have a large market share on the games but that won't stop GCN and XBOX to do their best... then lets just wait and see the next tally for the 1st quarter of the year...

[Kaiser Sigma]

Problem is, sure the GC will grow up to be stronger... but same will happen with the XBOX and PS2... this has been discussed a few pages ago but... nevermind...

[Syed Fawad]

I don't think that there is much of an argument left between PS2 and GC. We had a exrensive game to game comparision, including the games which have been released and the upcoming confirmed games.

The argument can now be moved to XBOX vs GC.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> The argument can now be moved to XBOX vs GC.

Not now, but it always had to be that... Nintendo went cocky and thought that their main adversary was Sony... truth be said, Sony and the PS2 are just too far from the other 2 systems... I don't think that they will ever catch up with it. The main battle like it or not now and before is between the XBOX and the GC for the second place. The first place ? It belongs to the PS2 if you ask me...

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> The argument can now be moved to XBOX vs GC.

Not now, but it always had to be that... Nintendo went cocky and thought that their main adversary was Sony... truth be said, Sony and the PS2 are just too far from the other 2 systems... I don't think that they will ever catch up with it. The main battle like it or not now and before is between the XBOX and the GC for the second place. The first place ? It belongs to the PS2 if you ask me...

Well the number one place till March 2004 is determined.

But when you talk about XBOX and GC, well common sense tells me that GC is helllotta better consoel, but the sales figure show the exact opposite...

[Quatro]

> The argument can now be moved to XBOX vs GC.

of course GCN is way above XBOX! but looking on this link: http://half.ebay.com/products/top.cfm?topsection=games

it state the top 200 bestseller games... see for yourselves

[Kaiser Sigma]

I'm not casting an opinion between both machines since I'm not that well informed to do such a thing... but search a few pages before and you will find numbers posted by Chrisray and Raedius... you'll find them quite interesting...

[Syed Fawad]

Interesting? Now lemme ask you straight forward. Do YOU think that Xbox is better than GC?

[Kane]

Personaly? At this particular moment in time, there is more on the X-Box that I want: Splinter Cell, Dead or Alive 3. Just not enought to even consider purchasing one.

[Syed Fawad]

You'll notice a drastic change in my opinion if Shenmue3 is confirmed for XBOX.

On a personal level, on the other hand, if Wrestlemania X9 proves to be better than RAW2....

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Interesting? Now lemme ask you straight forward. Do YOU think that Xbox is better than GC?

I dunno, as a matter of fact I don't care. But I'm quite amazed at the fact that the GC was "supposed" to kick the XBOX's ass... well, while in the "almighty" Japan the GC is doing that in the rest of the world the fight isn't that uneven...

[Quatro]

at present I think is still behind GCN... but you can only say that a console is successful when the games it has is very good and have high appeal to the market. The next factor would be the name of the console... from the list in ebay, XBOX have a few titles in the top 20... so which means they are getting better games and much support from game developers...

so means this year would be a tight competition...

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Exophase
Ninja, GCN has strong titles but PS2 has at least as many. And you're saying why are we arguing what, this "fact" of your's that GCN will overtake PS2? If you really think that's not worth arguing then you're too zealous.

- Exo

So I'm zealous? So what? Has that become a bad thing these days?

At any rate, I grow very weary of this thread. I think I am going to take a break from it for a while. The arguing here no longer serves any kind of purpose other than the most petty bickering I can possibly imagine.

[Exophase]

Oh Ninja.. I'm just doing what I always do, and that's be there to smack you when you get on your Nintendo high horse. Don't complain Ninja.. you know you thrive off of petty bickering! I think you're just unhappy because you're outnumbered this time :(

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

I think you're just unhappy because you're outnumbered this time

Quite probably. I don't like fighting fights that are like 7 to 1 and over something really trivial.

[Exophase]

We're on the 75th page of this thread and you just now decided arguing over which console is going to do better is trivial...

- Exo