PS2 vs GameCube vs XBox

[Demigod]

Originally posted by Shiori
On a side note, the same can be said of RTS games as well. Building "farms"/mine "gold" --> create "workers" --> create "barracks" --->create soldiers/war machines --->invade the enemy ---> game over/move to the next stage and repeat the same old routine can get pretty tedious. And a feeling of tediousness is one thing you shouldn't feel in a game, as it was meant for enjoyment and relaxation in the first place. Warcraft was good the first time it came out, and I enjoyed its first two incarnations, but seeing Warcraft III, nothing's reallly changed but better cinematics and game animation, but still the same old tedious gameplay. Any which way you look at it, from Age of Empires to Battle Realms to Starcraft to Warcraft... it's all the same.

Ah, but maybe it's just that I just need something innovative every now and then, and I'm finding them in obscure (in the West) Japanese games. Anyway, going back to the topic at hand, I'd rather download a demo or borrow it from a friend before deciding to buy a game rather than reading some schmuck's review posted on GameFAQs or Gamespot. It's hit or miss (mostly missing big time) when depending on reviews in buying a game. You can say the same thing about console RPGs. Although there are a few innovative titles now and then most of them are the same. Just look at the Final Fantasy series. Nothing's really changed since Final Fantasy 3 (NES). With each new game they improve the graphics, add more cinematics and animations and a new plot. The basic idea remains the same though. Walk around, fight monsters, build up your levels and get money, enter towns, buy weapons and armor, fight more monsters, eventually fight the end boss and the game's over. Are console games any more innovative than PC games? I personally don't think so. As with consoles PCs have repetitious games as well as some innovative ones, such as Dues Ex, Alice, Thief, Half-life, etc. Of course it all depends on what you mean by "innovative".

I only say "rave" reviews because every review I've read has said good things about it. It was even featured in an article in CPU magazine, the magazine I trust most when it comes to PCs. Of course this doesn't necessarily mean you'll like it, since people cater to different tastes but it gives a general idea of the kinds of impressions it has made on people.

[Ninjaa]

Shiori, the game gets better after the hospital IMO. Just stick with it. The ending might make up for all its shortcomings. It did for me anyway.

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
What ? It took years ? mmm... have you ever heard about CS ?

Kaiser, mentioning this probably won't do me much good, but Counterstrike came out AFTER Goldeneye.

And once again, you missed the entire point of my post. Is it too much to ask for you to read just one of my posts? Near as I can tell, you pick a line to fight about and rant on for a while.

[Samor]

dont want to be negative, but I played halflife for 5 hours straight, constantly anticipating when the good part was going to start. It never started, so I never played it again.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Kaiser, mentioning this probably won't do me much good, but Counterstrike came out AFTER Goldeneye.

CS came a few months after Goldeneye, yet my point relies in your exaggerated comments "it took years"... Years he say !!
On which world do you leave ? And no I didn't lost the point of your post, but if I post something and say something stupid... would you let it go ? I can't... you say some dumb stuff and I feel the need to remark it... and please drop that pathetic arrogant attitude of "care to read my posts"... they aren't as complex as you think... geez, instead of pestering other ppl about "writing profiles" why don't you write one about yourself ? maybe you can figure it out what I (and other members if I'm not mistaken) have told you plenty of times...

> dont want to be negative, but I played halflife for 5 hours straight, constantly anticipating when the good part was going to start. It never started, so I never played it again.

Tastes differ, I'm not saying that Hal Life is one of the best FPS... (I'm no fanboy) I'm just saying that the game featured more than just killing monsters... as well as its expansion, opposing force...

[Ninjaa]

I actually really liked the intro of Half Life, but the game screwed up, and I got bored a few hours later.

System Shock 2 was also supposed to be a really good FPS. I played the game for a long time, but it eventually just bored the hell out of me and I quit. That happens with pretty much every FPS I ever played.

America's Army and Perfect Dark I think are the record breakers for long term FPS gaming from me. I have something like a day and a half logged on the combat simulator in Perfect Dark. :D

[Samor]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> Kaiser, mentioning this probably won't do me much good, but Counterstrike came out AFTER Goldeneye.

CS came a few months after Goldeneye, yet my point relies in your exaggerated comments "it took years"... Years he say !!
On which world do you leave ? And no I didn't lost the point of your post, but if I post something and say something stupid... would you let it go ? I can't... you say some dumb stuff and I feel the need to remark it... and please drop that pathetic arrogant attitude of "care to read my posts"... they aren't as complex as you think... geez, instead of pestering other ppl about "writing profiles" why don't you write one about yourself ? maybe you can figure it out what I (and other members if I'm not mistaken) have told you plenty of times...

> dont want to be negative, but I played halflife for 5 hours straight, constantly anticipating when the good part was going to start. It never started, so I never played it again.

Tastes differ, I'm not saying that Hal Life is one of the best FPS... (I'm no fanboy) I'm just saying that the game featured more than just killing monsters... as well as its expansion, opposing force...

I know it did. =P But I still didnt like it.
I liked Shogo better...

[Samor]

Originally posted by Ninja
I actually really liked the intro of Half Life, but the game screwed up, and I got bored a few hours later.

System Shock 2 was also supposed to be a really good FPS. I played the game for a long time, but it eventually just bored the hell out of me and I quit. That happens with pretty much every FPS I ever played.

America's Army and Perfect Dark I think are the record breakers for long term FPS gaming from me. I have something like a day and a half logged on the combat simulator in Perfect Dark. :D

most played fpses here are Shogo, CS and Action Half-life.
Also finished Mohaa. I played UT a number of times against others, and there are a whole lot of fps'es I played a few times. Thats about it, I'm not a huge fps fan, but I think the genre is ok. All the military stuff gets dull though.

[Raedius]

BTW, I finally got Halo.

The flood... the flood....

~Raedius

[Kaiser Sigma]

> System Shock 2 was also supposed to be a really good FPS. I played the game for a long time, but it eventually just bored the hell out of me and I quit. That happens with pretty much every FPS I ever played.

However it's not a matter of your tastes... it's a matter of global preferences... and sorry, but I loved System Shock 2 (as well as lot more of ppl who likes games that aren't only on the systems to which they devote their lives...)...

> most played fpses here are Shogo, CS and Action Half-life.

Shogo was great, I still play it from time to time... even more, I just can't get enough of the opening theme... anyway, you should heed Chrisray and Demigod's opinion on No One Lives Forever 2... it's quite a great game...

[Samor]

Originally posted by Raedius
BTW, I finally got Halo.

The flood... the flood....

~Raedius

ok, go play it and tell us what it's like ;)

[Ninjaa]

However it's not a matter of your tastes... it's a matter of global preferences... and sorry, but I loved System Shock 2 (as well as lot more of ppl who likes games that aren't only on the systems to which they devote their lives...)...

Since when is my opinion not important? I don't care if a million other people liked it, it BORED THE HELL OUT OF ME!

And please, quit it with your commentary on how everything I say is a lie.

I have often praised Xenogears and Metal Gear Solid as being two of the finest games ever made. Hell, in a recent post on this thread, I was giving the same praise to Silent Hill 2. Wipe the **** off your eyes dude.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Since when is my opinion not important? I don't care if a million other people liked it, it BORED THE HELL OUT OF ME!

No one said it's not important, but in the end, it's the total ammount the one that matters...
Examples ? the new Zelda, god I hate Cel Shading, it gives the game a cartoonish appearance that I dislike... but truth be said the game is by far the best on the GC (even greater than Metroid Prime, from what I've hear... and to me that's much)... so my opinion toward the game is negative, but it doesn't matter in the end as the game is and will be a total success...
That's how my point is applied to you...

> (...) Hell, in a recent post on this thread, I was giving the same praise to Silent Hill 2. Wipe the **** off your eyes dude.

My, my... first time that someone starts with the flames before me... take a break Ninja... different from others I won't hesitate to reply to you... but ! today is a good day to me so I'll let it go ^^ (for now...)...

[Kraiger Drago]

Originally posted by Shiori

That's true, and I'm not denying it. I have a ton of it myself. However, if you'll care to notice we are talking about mainstream CONSOLE games here, not the hentai game market in Japan. I don't think I've seen a hentai game come out on ANY console. The closest was Pia Carrot for Sega Saturn, and in that the story and scenes were radically cut to achieve a sort-of "PG-15" rating, with some revealing scenes, but nothing that makes noses bleed.

I will concede you that point. The only console games I have seen that were "Adult" were the Nude Mah Johng roms and Hentai Slide shows. The slide shows are probably just made by some Industrious programmer out there that wanted Hentai images to run through his Znes. There is the Bubble Bath Babes/Hot Shot Slots/Peek-a-boo Poker games which were for the NES. There were also Adult Atari games, but they don't count since they weren't made by the Japanese, just perveted Americans :)


And that's EXACTLY what's wrong with you so-called "gamers". I won't bother to delve into it deeper, as I've said my piece about it in an earlier post in the previous page, but you should think about the others, too. I'm sure not everyone shares the same opinion with you, and I'm also pretty sure that you are actually the minority in this case.

I'm still going to stick by my guns. Some games (like several of the X-Sims) don't even have a wide enough appeal in JAPAN, so why should they even bother to release them outside of the country? Its the same reason that folks outside of the states have probably never seen a copy of Wizard Work's "Swamp Buggy Racin'".

People just love interactivity in a game. And no one fills this need better than the dating sim genre. Wouldn't it be great if Final Fantasy were to allow you to finish the game with a different girl in the end? Instead of crummy Rinoa, you can end up with Quistis! or Selphie! or even Xu! FFVII had this with that Golden Saucer date scenario, but sadly we never saw this interesting bonus scene in subsequent FF sequels. Anyway, its these "what-if" scenarios that ensure such a game's infinite replayability. And that's what makes it enjoyable, and not that "win-the-love-of-an-anime-girl" argument you're trying to point out. It's much more than that.
Interactivity is a huge seller; its why there are about 12 damn SIMS games. I said that the majority of the MALES over here would not like it, and I will still stick by that argument. I totally forgot about the FEMALES though. I know several chicks (even some of my friends moms) that play and love the Sims games. I think that a good chunk of them would proabably dig the Dating-sim genres as well.
Shiori Fujisaki in Konami's Tokimeki Memorial was famous, not only because of Konami's marketing blitz (she was the ONLY game character in Konami's history to have a PSX game exclusively dedicated to her), but also because it was almost next to impossible to end the game with her without using a cheat or a gameshark code. Fans of the game saw it as bragging rights to have ended the game with her, kinda like beating Ruby and Emerald weapon without using KOTR in FFVII, and with good reason. I myself had to play it ~220 times through and through before I finally got her, and is the reason why I picked her name as my handle; it will always serve to remind me of my greatest gaming achievement. And yeah, I DID beat Ruby and Emerald weapon without using KOTR, but that pales in comparison to getting Shiori.
So, in short, its about winning the love of an anime girl :p

True, it's just text and images and a bit of decision-making here and there, but you also get great art, music and that interactivity factor currently lacking in console games as well. Admittedly it's not action-packed the way _some_ American gamers like it to be, but it really wouldn't be difficult to find converts to this genre.
I actually thought these games would be like the old NES "Shadowgate" and "The Uninvited" games, except with Voice Acting and better music. But I think you are right, it would not be hard to find converts to it. Out of all the genres we have talked about, I think this one would fare the best outside of Japan.I said the exact same thing of this genre before, having been a big fan of CYOA books in my elementary years, but I took back my statements the first time I played such a game. Maybe you should play a game or two as well before comparing it to something as irrelevant as CYOA. It's like comparing apples and bananas.
Oh wait, I can't, as they aren't available here :)


And, like what I've been telling earlier, it's that kind of attitiude that makes them so hesitant to take such a gamble: that single-mindedness attitude of Western (particularly American) gamers that only action-packed games will sell. Sure, everyone like a bit of action every now and then, but DON'T YOU PEOPLE EVER GET TIRED OF IT? How many No One Lives Forevers do we have to see before they decide to call it quits? Cate Archer will be past retirement age and she still looks as young as ever, still shooting down an endless stream of baddies, much like that British agent *coughjamesbondcough*. I could only wonder how you guys would react if ever Square-Enix decides to release all their RPGs in Japanese only. I bet you'll all claw at the walls in anguish. Or simply not care at all. After all, there's still "Still Yet Another Return to Castle Wolfenstein", "Unreal Tounament 2062", and "DOOM MCMLXVIII"
Actually, its not that we are a single-minded bunch, its just that we simply do not KNOW about the games. Take Miyazaki films. Im pretty sure that you will agree with me that they are very good right? But they do so poorly over here when Disney releases them. Why? Because Disney does not ADVERTISE the films. There are all of these really good films that nobody knows about. Lets take your Tokimeki Memorial game. If Konami took a similar Massive Advert Blitz over here, very good things could come out of it. Sometimes the Publisher has to take the iniative. Sometimes you have to beat the public over the head with a stick to get them to get their heads out of their asses ;)


Oh, I also thought of TWO games that are 1. Very Japanese (as in they are not the "standard" genre that gets released outside of Japan) and 2. DId VERY well.
A- Dance Dance Revolution.
B- Turntable Frenzy (okay, this one was in Europe, but basically, it was like DDR for DJ's. You had a turntable and you had to sync up the beats and all of that. It might be out in big cities here in the states, but since I am nowhere near one, I have only seen it in Europe).
I mean a game where you just dance? Piff! how can that be any fun, right? :)

[Kane]

It's simply that the only 'dating sim' style games that arrive in the west are teh H ones. That's w people assume they are all H. They also seem to think this partialy because of the gratuitous pantie shots in some animes.
We get gratuitous nakedness in some western films. Does that make them all porn?

[Kraiger Drago]

Originally posted by Samor

right. Then why are the hentai ones the only versions that get released in America?
Because perverts are universal. I do not know of any that have been actually RELEASED here in the states. All the ones I have ever seen have come straight off the net and were 1 orginally in english (like Sin and Punishment for the N64. Why did they do all the voice acting in ENGLISH for that game, but never release it in the In N. America or Europe?) or 2 have been translated by dedicated Hentai enthuiastics.



yet people like ms' flight sims and train sims
There is a WORLD of differences between a FLIGHT sim and a FLIGHT CONTROL TOWER sim.



because it doesnt have sex in it? I mean...thats why only the perverted ones get translated, right?
Yup. People want their Tentacle Rape Porn, what can I say.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> It's simply that the only 'dating sim' style games that arrive in the west are teh H ones. That's w people assume they are all H. They also seem to think this partialy because of the gratuitous pantie shots in some animes.
We get gratuitous nakedness in some western films. Does that make them all porn?

Man... I want to play Tokimeki Memorial, Sakura Taisen or Pia Carrot... *sighs* life is unfair...

[Shiori]

Originally posted by Kraiger Drago


So, in short, its about winning the love of an anime girl :p



Thinking about it... it IS, in a nutshell; but it's not all that is to it as I've said earlier. Sometimes the anime girl falls for/is chasing you instead due to your impressive personal stats, and you can't shake her off your back, with unwanted results in the end. ;)

[Samor]

Originally posted by Kraiger Drago

There is a WORLD of differences between a FLIGHT sim and a FLIGHT CONTROL TOWER sim.


perhaps, but we do play silly things like soccer managers and f1 managers (at least in Yurp...)

[Shiori]

Games were created partly so people can live their fantasies. If they always wanted to be a soccer superstar, they can play a soccer game. They want to be an assassin, they play Silent Scope or Hitman. In the same way, if some people have always wanted how it feels to be an air traffic controller without really plunging people to their deaths, such a game would be right up their alley. That's why there are also "tycoon" games too, so you can get a feel on how it is to be the top banana without incurring the wrath of angry shareholders when your fictional company bottoms out to penny stocks. ;)

But I seriously digress from the topic. So going back to it, IMO it's still PS2 on top, followed by GC at a close second, and XBoX nipping at its heels at third. :p Though there are GC ports of PS2 games, there are some that remain PS2 exclusive, so unless they can somehow find a loophole out of their exclusive contracts, GC will continue to lose potential buyers over to PS2.

XBoX, meanwhile, has some decent games; but mostly sports ones. The unwieldy controller is a big selling minus point too, unless they make the Japanese version the de facto standard in all shipping units. It was clearly designed with 6-foot Caucasians in mind. :D

[Kaiser Sigma]

> XBoX, meanwhile, has some decent games; but mostly sports ones. The unwieldy controller is a big selling minus point too, unless they make the Japanese version the de facto standard in all shipping units. It was clearly designed with 6-foot Caucasians in mind.

XBOX games so far aren't much... the good ones, but the few good games it has are (IMO) above the average level. Examples ? Halo, Splinter Cell, Shenmue IIx (though i've heard it had lame sales numbers), DOA3 (though many ppl says that DOA2 is better)... and I wish that the upcoming Panzer Dragoon isn't a disgrace to the series... though it's Sega the one making it so, I won't worry much about it...
PS2 is going to stay on top for a long time, at some points I really wonder if Nintendo or MS are going to catch it... at first I didn't though that the difference was that much but now I can see it is that much... time will tell...
As for GC vs XBOX... we will see, strange things have happened on the video market, as Samor said, the war (though I refer to the war of the three consoles) is all but over... we will see...

[Exophase]

Look, dating sims just don't have the same appeal to the American gamer demigraphic that they have in Japan. It's not because US gamers think they're all hentai; most gamers probably aren't even aware that hentai is widely available because a) they're too young to buy it b) it's virtually unavailable for consoles and c) it's not really all that accessible/available at all. Really we could basically consider hentai games to be more part of the pornography industry than the gaming industry; sure, they might have gaming elements, in the same way porn movies might have.. movie elements, but for the most part.. well I'm not going to deny that there are probably some that are pretty good games, but let's not go there.... The point I'm trying to make is that the reason why dating sims aren't sold in America isn't because developers are afraid gamers won't buy it because they'll think it's nothing but hentai. It's only reasonable to think that in a place like this where everyone is familiar with hentai. No, the reason why they don't market it here is because we're simply not interested. Like it or not, we have different cultural values and tastes than Japanese people do, and some things just aren't going to sell no matter how innovatively marketted they are or how much money is put behind them. Hell, look at Dragon Quest 7, it's an RPG for crying out loud. RPG's tend to do well here. So tell me, why did the best selling game of all time in Japan utterly bomb in America? I can hardly say for sure, but if I were to take a guess it'd be because American gamers appreciate RPGs for indepth plots, cutting edge graphics, and innovative gameplay, while Japanese gamers probably appreciate games that are very long, challenging, and nostalgic. Please don't anyone tell me "American gamers are stupid" okay? I've seen a lot of this cultural bias here (mostly Americans who want to be Japanese) and it's pretty sad. Both cultures obviously have their unique aspects and their unique tastes, and I hardly see why prefering Dragon Quest or dating sims makes their culture superior.

- Exo

[Shiori]

Well, it shows if any that they've got a broader mind than you guys. Imagine stereotyping SLG games as hentai way before they hit the shores...it can't get more narrow (and stupid, really) than that.

[Exophase]

Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Broader minds, more intelligent gamers, whatever. I've heard it all. Did you even read my post? No one would stereotype SLG games as hentai except those who are like some on these boards. Perhaps you're so zealously supporting these games that you won't accept the fact that people here might not LIKE them, and have to say instead that they're narrow minded? Thanks.

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

Mmmm... maybe we are straying from the topic... Shiori has one point (though I hate to admit it)... and another thing... the fact that we get so many (because I've seen a lot) of H-games say something about the western ppl...

[Shiori]

Well I did try to swing it back to console discussion a few posts back. :heh: Ninja's not here yet, so you guys'll just have to wait.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Well I did try to swing it back to console discussion a few posts back. Ninja's not here yet, so you guys'll just have to wait.

Hey, it wasn't me the one who brought this back... as for the "console war"... you have to admit that so far this thread has grown quite boring... if not worse... so talking about other topics isn't that bad...

[Shiori]

After 50 pages, you'd think anyone would've run out of arguments by then. :D

[Kaiser Sigma]

Actually I think that we have run out of arguments a while back... we are just feeding a fire for the sole purpose of keeping it... at this point everything is said... or at least that's what I think...

[Ninjaa]

Nah, I am still trying to fight with real arguments, but it seems like everyone else is down to nitpicking what I say except Raedius, who is also posting some relevant things.

Anyways, Pokemon is all but confirmed for GameCube. It's being developed by a developer with a lot of experience with RPGs, containing both Mother (Earthbound), and Dragon Quest (Dragon Warrior) team members. I am thinking that Nintendo is going to be playing hardball. They are going to make the most awesome Pokemon game ever for GameCube. How do you guys think that will affect sales?

And about Nintendo's Megaton announcement.... It's supposed to make PS2 owners very unhappy. That just adds to the speculation. It will be announced within the next 24 hours though. When you wake up tomorrow, chances are you will know what it is.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Nah, I am still trying to fight with real arguments, but it seems like everyone else is down to nitpicking what I say except Raedius, who is also posting some relevant things.

Cut the obssesion Ninja...

> How do you guys think that will affect sales?

I dunno, I hate pokemon... though for some strange reason all the world like them...

> And about Nintendo's Megaton announcement.... It's supposed to make PS2 owners very unhappy. That just adds to the speculation. It will be announced within the next 24 hours though. When you wake up tomorrow, chances are you will know what it is

I don't know if these guys went ahead of time saying it, but Datafull (a well respected video game page on my country) announced that Nintendo is making the final details on its buy over Capcom... so, that's the best reason to start hating Nintendo... down with that pathetic company...

[systemid]

About the dating sims im open to them as a matter of fact at newgrounds.com there where some fun dating sim games and i must admit they where really fun. I just think that game companys are scared of what the public will think most of those damn parents who dont like mature games would be really upset and would try to ban it but i say try to sell one here atleast try. I would atleast rent it.

[Kaiser Sigma]

As I said above, I'd trade my boring platform games for a dating sim anyday... as for the censorship... heh, you may be right, ppl don't care if we play a game on which we slay someone with a big sword... but if we play something new they think we are sick and a lot more of crap... maybe we ARE narrow minded after all...

[Kraiger Drago]

So Japanese comic readers are close minded because they don't like American Comics? :p (well, with the Exception of Monkey Punch and Masakazu Katsura). Anyhoo, Exophase summed up things good enough for me, so this is the last post I will make pertaining to the subject.

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
>
I don't know if these guys went ahead of time saying it, but Datafull (a well respected video game page on my country) announced that Nintendo is making the final details on its buy over Capcom... so, that's the best reason to start hating Nintendo... down with that pathetic company...
Oh, so all the N64 owners shouldve hated Sony because Square went exclusive with them? ;)
But I agree, Capcom becoming ENTIRELY Nintendo exclusive is bad (if that is what the Megaton Anouncement is all about). All of those Xbox and PS2 owners deprived of one of the best (IMHO) game companies out there.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Oh, so all the N64 owners shouldve hated Sony because Square went exclusive with them? But I agree, Capcom becoming ENTIRELY Nintendo exclusive is bad (if that is what the Megaton Anouncement is all about). All of those Xbox and PS2 owners deprived of one of the best (IMHO) game companies out there.

Don't loose my point, Squaresoft turned their back on Nintendo... but Capcom is being ACQUIRED by Nintendo, those are different matters. Which means you will never see a game of that company in a console that isn't from Nintendo... therefore that's my motivation to hate them, they deprived the world of a great company...

[Gamer1]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma

Don't loose my point, Squaresoft turned their back on Nintendo... but Capcom is being ACQUIRED by Nintendo

So sony aquiring practically 50% of square totally escaped your mind?

----------------------------------------------------

*Square became exclusive... where's your hatred towards Sony?

And final Fantasy chronicles, and the tactics one, is being developed by a sqaure subsidiary (not owned by sony)... probably being developed by the newly swallowed up company by square... i believe it is the people that made tactic ogre...

[Exophase]

50% is a gross exaggeration. I think you mean 18%. Buying 18% of a company's stock isn't comparable with buying a company, sorry.

- Exo

[Exophase]

And Square never became Sony exclusive, this is rubbish. Just because they avoided Nintendo consoles hardly made them exclusive; has everyone forgotten their Wonder Swan Color games? They happened to not be on very friendly terms with Nintendo, you know.

- Exo

[Shiori]

Originally posted by Exophase
50% is a gross exaggeration. I think you mean 18%. Buying 18% of a company's stock isn't comparable with buying a company, sorry.

- Exo

It does buy a significant chunk of control though... enough to significantly influence corporate decisions if it's a publicly held company.

[ChrisRay]

Owning stock 18% of the stock however does give them a notable say in what happens to the company. Just Like Microsoft owns 24% of Sega.

[Shiori]

I was talking about the 18%, not the 50. Just FYI.

[Exophase]

That may be true, but it's still not comparable with owning a company or even 50% (which is just about majority)

- Exo

[Shiori]

He who has majority control, literally owns. Anyone who has a few units of Management under their belts knows that. And more often than not, 18% is already majority.

[Exophase]

Well I'd say it's pretty obvious Sony never controlled Square, and now that they have only 8% of Square Enix this is pretty moot. Anyway, I'm certain that Sony's 18% wasn't a plurality.

- Exo

[ChrisRay]

well if 18% is a majority depends on "how" the stock is divided. If its divided into small 1% percentiles. Then yes. 18% is the majority. We'd actually have to take a look at the Sony stock shares and values to get an idea of who has the major say in the company. 18% and 24% are significant shares of a company. There's no doubt about that.

[Exophase]

18% wasn't a plurality for Sony, I'm positive (and btw, a majority is over half of something, not the largest portion)... I doubt any corporation of this stature would seriously allow itself to be dominated by an 18% share holder. I do believe most of these companies have a large enough percentage of their stocks privately owned.

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Sony never did exercise any executive control over Square. Square's dealings with Nintendo were proof enough of that. Sony was in it for a profit, and nothing more.

Kaiser, you are really beginning to sicken me. You seem to have no problem with Microsoft buying Rare, and you actually go to the trouble of flaming anyone who DOES have a problem with this. But you have all sorts of issues at the mere possibility of Nintendo buying Capcom. Where are your great single standards now?

I just find it frusterating that you call me a hypocrite, when you have proven to be the biggest hypocrite here. I am not asking for much, I am just asking you to stop attacking me. I have done you no wrong.

And just for the record, Capcom just recently talked to Sega about taking Autoelo Modelista online. That doesn't sound much like a company that's about to be bought out.

[Exophase]

Well, in his defense, I don't think it's quite the same for a company buying out Rare because they've always been platform specific; they just happen to be moving to a different platform now. Although I do agree that they're the same thing in principal. I just think someone buying out Capcom or Sega would have a more dramatic effect for gamers. This probably doesn't make much difference concerning who's a hypocrite, but yeah....

- Exo

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Exophase
18% wasn't a plurality for Sony, I'm positive (and btw, a majority is over half of something, not the largest portion)... I doubt any corporation of this stature would seriously allow itself to be dominated by an 18% share holder. I do believe most of these companies have a large enough percentage of their stocks privately owned.

- Exo


Exophase. I guess the best thing to do at this point is pull up Sony;'s shares, They are infact public record. (like the stock market..)

[Ninjaa]

Exophase, lately Capcom has been showing a lot of support for Nintendo, and I don't think that a merger would really affect things that much either. PS2 wouldn't get anymore DMC games, and that's about all I can think of right now. (It's late). I don't really see the difference being all that dramatic for gamers in this case either.

But I will repeat myself that in no way has any kind of announcement concerning Nintendo buying Capcom been made yet. In some ways it's likely, but there is no real evidence yet. Both companies are still claiming that business is going as normal. I personally don't believe that Megaton is about this. I think that Capcom might be made a second party sometime in the future, but now is not the time.

EDIT: I would agree that Rare changing hands had little effect on PS2 owners, but it had a profound effect on both GameCube and Xbox owners.

Capcom becoming a Nintendo only developer will affect the PS2's lineup, but not greatly IMO, and will enhance GameCube's lineup, but it's really hard to beat the projects they already have on the way.

Basically, I am saying that Capcom becoming a Nintendo 2nd party would have far less impact than Rare switching from Nintendo to Microsoft.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Ninja
(...)
Kaiser, you are really beginning to sicken me. You seem to have no problem with Microsoft buying Rare, and you actually go to the trouble of flaming anyone who DOES have a problem with this. But you have all sorts of issues at the mere possibility of Nintendo buying Capcom. Where are your great single standards now?

I just find it frusterating that you call me a hypocrite, when you have proven to be the biggest hypocrite here. I am not asking for much, I am just asking you to stop attacking me. I have done you no wrong.

And just for the record, Capcom just recently talked to Sega about taking Autoelo Modelista online. That doesn't sound much like a company that's about to be bought out.

It's what I think, though you will all find it repetitive... Rare was always a developer for Nintendo, MS buying it doesn't affect the video game market... much. However and as it was said back then, most of RARE's ppl left because of that desition... so in the end they may have got only RARE's name... no more than that.
Capcom was a multiplatform company, so going Nintendo's exclusive affects greatly the video game market, you just can't compare both adquisitions...

As for me sickening you... I'm not here to make friends you know ? I'm here to pinpoint facts... is I sicken you that's your problem, though don't worry, a lot of ppl may agree with you, yet... I don't give a damn about it. You are a hypocrite, you went nuts over the rumor of MS buying Capcom, hell I was there bashing them with you... when the rumors of Nintendo buying Sega and/or Capcom arose your first reaction was : "Yay, I was expecting to be something like this !"... how can't you say that that ISN'T hypocrisy ? sorry it's the truth, and I don't care wether you accept it or not...

Attacking you ? Where ? Just because I mark some mistakes ? Geez, if I post a lot of crap and someone comes and start quoting me, because I'm really missing things that's not "attacking"... it's what anyone would do... I don't consider an attack when you (or anyone else) corrects me, it's just ridiculous the concept you have ot "attacks"...
Shiori discussed with Exophase and Kraiger Draco about Datin sims... do you think he look at the quotes from them as an attack ? (I hope not, or else my point is wasted...)
As for being "the greatest hypocrite"... show me some proof of it... so far I think I'm being fair...
As for the agreement between Sega and Capcom, yes it's true. But it's between Sega online (not online, I can't recall the name of that division) and Capcom... it's a different matter.

As for the "rumor", look at the "Nintendo's megaton secret solved" thread... you will find an interesting article there...

[Ninjaa]

It's what I think, though you will all find it repetitive... Rare was always a developer for Nintendo, MS buying it doesn't affect the video game market... much. However and as it was said back then, most of RARE's ppl left because of that desition... so in the end they may have got only RARE's name... no more than that.
Capcom was a multiplatform company, so going Nintendo's exclusive affects greatly the video game market, you just can't compare both adquisitions...

Rare leaving Nintendo and going to Microsoft didn't affect PS2 users in the slightest, yet caused a great uproar in both Nintendo and Microsoft camps. I don't see how you can call this a small effect. I know it sold a lot of Xbox's.

Attacking you ? Where ? Just because I mark some mistakes ?

I am talking about a while ago when your response to everything I said, even if it was a solid fact was simply replied to with a comment about how blind I was, how big of a hypocrite I was, or otherwise about how I was making stuff up. How am I supposed to take that?

As for me sickening you... I'm not here to make friends you know ? I'm here to pinpoint facts... is I sicken you that's your problem, though don't worry, a lot of ppl may agree with you, yet... I don't give a damn about it. You are a hypocrite, you went nuts over the rumor of MS buying Capcom, hell I was there bashing them with you... when the rumors of Nintendo buying Sega and/or Capcom arose your first reaction was : "Yay, I was expecting to be something like this !"... how can't you say that that ISN'T hypocrisy ? sorry it's the truth, and I don't care wether you accept it or not...

I am talking about afterward. You went way out of your way to make sure that nobody said anything bad about Microsoft, and Microsoft's acqusition of Rare was just another thing for you to defend. I seem to recall you saying that it is Microsoft's right to buy developers, and you would defend them from anyone who thought they were just a bunch of money grubbing losers.

And I personally think that this situation is very different from MS buying Rare. That kind of a situation would be like Nintendo buying Rockstar or Bungie. In which case I would tell you right now, I wouldn't care about either really, but I would find both to be extremely humorous. :D

[Kaiser Sigma]

> I am talking about afterward. You went way out of your way to make sure that nobody said anything bad about Microsoft, and Microsoft's acqusition of Rare was just another thing for you to defend. I seem to recall you saying that it is Microsoft's right to buy developers, and you would defend them from anyone who thought they were just a bunch of money grubbing losers.

What are you possibly talking about ? I bashed MS, I didn't defend them. Want a quote of myself ?

"actually average_guy, the fact is that WE ALL hate MS, few of us think of getting a XXXBOX, so if Capcom goes to MS most of us won't be able to play Capcom's new games... at least that's my opinion..."

"I wasn't refering to MS products, I was refering to MS itself..."

"heheheh... just wait until Linux finally overcome some of their barriers..."

"wich shows you what a "serious" company MS is..."

Damn, here you have the link : http://www.ngemu.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25964&perpage=20&highlight=microsoft%20buying%20capcom&pagenumber=3

Now... tell me. Where do I defend MS in there ? oh, and please check every single post of mine, no one was edited or anything... I didn't defend anyone, Ninja, who's "creating" stuff uh ?

[Raedius]

First of all I didn't know Capcom had any games being released on the Xbox when I bought it. So if they get bought by Nintendo it will be of no concern to me since I wasn't getting anything from them in the first place.

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

I was searching your previous posts to find the ones I was talking about, but it's just taking way too freaking long. I will just concede the point and apologize instead, as I am way overtired, and want to go to bed.

Sorry.

Anyways, I did find one post I thought was pretty darned interesting. Is it just me or do you switch total philosophy on a regular basis? :D
http://www.ngemu.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20191&perpage=20&pagenumber=6#post247170

EDIT: Heh, Raedius, thanks for pointing that out. It seems that Nintendo buying Capcom would affect the industry even less. This time Xbox owners wouldn't care at all, PS2 owners wouldn't notice much, and GameCube owners would get a new Breath of Fire game. :D

I really don't see how Nintendo buying Capcom would make THAT big of a splash at the moment. They are already showing Nintendo some pretty serious support.

[Raedius]

Of course I was looking forward to Dino Crisis 3... but that has seemed to vanished off the face of the Earth. I haven't heard news on that game for, uhhh, since TGS and then it wasn't much infomation.

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

Actually, Mikami said in an interview a little while back that he was trying to get Devil May Cry and Dino Crisis on GameCube. Of course that has little effect on PS2 or Xbox, but it at least shows that Dino Crisis hasn't been forgotten about completely.

[Raedius]

Then of course there is Steel Battallion, and the online sequal in the works.

As a side note, MS confirmed Steel Battallion will be coming to Europe.

~Raedius

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Anyways, I did find one post I thought was pretty darned interesting. Is it just me or do you switch total philosophy on a regular basis?

I didn't change from philosophy, Nintendo was to me the only one that could take Sega's place... but I thought they will do it by themselves, not by starting to buy companies...
Just as I said that, I said the same if Nintendo would buy Sega (I know, I know... that ain't happening, but I trust you remember my reaction when I heard the rumor)... don't misunderstand things, I point facts I don't involve my personal feelings (unless they mess with Sega pretty badly...)...

> I really don't see how Nintendo buying Capcom would make THAT big of a splash at the moment. They are already showing Nintendo some pretty serious support.

A good example ? Look at the Dreamcast lineup... SO many great games, Tech Romancer, Jojo Bizarre's adventure, The Street fighter series, and some jap titles (Gundam Federation vs Zeon Dx, for example)... what makes you think that this kind of games wouldn't have come to the PS2 or the XBOX (ok, forget about the XBOX) eventually ? Capcom doesn't feature the RE and MM franchises only... I do really think that they can come up with great games... so I think it's a great loss...

[_E_]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
Actually I think that we have run out of arguments a while back... we are just feeding a fire for the sole purpose of keeping it... at this point everything is said... or at least that's what I think...

I was one of the main participants of this thread when it started. Now, i find it boring ( no offence here) .

as for Nintendo buying Capcom.....so what? yeah, many games would go for nintendo, but there wuld still be PS2 and Xbox ports. believe it or not, that will happen. to me, nintendo getting capcom is just a fininasial issue, nothing more....

[Raedius]

New UK numbers are out:


PlayStation 2 continues to batter the competition in the latest UK sales figures for the week ending December 14, as GameCube and Xbox show healthy growth.

PS2 shifted 111,066 units, a slight drop of two percent on the previous week, while Xbox achieved sales of 32,805, a rise of 18 percent, and GameCube an increase of 16 percent to 13,403. GBA sales by fell eight percent over the same period to 29,899.


~Raedius

[Exophase]

Geh, "PS2 wouldn't notice much".. conceited crap... Ninja, look more at the LONG TERM here, rather than just what's going on now. There's a big difference between companies changing exclusivity and a third party company no longer being so.

You don't think so because you're basically too ignorant to realize that Capcom has MILLIONS of sales in the PS2, in DMC, Onimusha, and still does have BoF and their longest running franchise, MegaMan, in it.

They also have several upcoming games for PS2 that you PROBABLY DIDN'T NOTICE, such as Chaos Legion, EverBlue 2, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Auto Modelista, Clock Tower 3, Red Dead Revolver, Catan, Maximo 2, Resident Evil Online, The Glass Rose... did you realize I just listed TEN upcoming Capcom games for PS2, most of which you probably haven't even heard of because you're too infatuated with RE and Capcom's vested alleged love interests with Nintendo?

Now what does Capcom have on IGN's release list for GCN? Four RE games, Viewtiful Joe, Product Number 3, Dead Phoenix.. what's that, LESS THAN PS2?!?! That can't be possible! Guess what Ninja, just because you like the Resident Evil games doesn't mean the world revolves around them, and just because GCN has them exclusive doesn't mean that's all that matters for Capcom's development. Geez, you talk about us being blind, well go look for yourself.

And you're saying Rare is going to make a bigger impact than this would? What did Rare have officially announced for GCN again? More than Capcom had announced for both systems combined, surely! Maybe you don't get it, but Capcom is a BEHEMOTH of a game developer and for it to go single party would not only be massively stupid on its own part, but would be devestating to all but the company who got it. BTW, I scoped XBox's release dates, and Capcom has two of their (quite popular) VS. games coming out for it, Sniper, Dino Crisis 3 (how the hell did you guys miss this?), and Onimusha 2. So you're all wrong about Capcom's null support for XBox, too.

All this just from looking on IGN.. sad.

- Exo

EDIT: name corrections, formatting.

[Ninjaa]

Exophase, it's true that a couple of the games you listed, I have not heard of, but I did know about the majority of them, even if I couldn't recall them all at will... ;)

However, I must reply to this with Capcom's GameCube lineup.

Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil 3, Resident Evil CV, Resident Evil 4, Dead Phoenix, Killer 7, PN03, Viewtiful Joe, Black Rose, and of course, Project Devil and CAS Ra.

That's 9 confirmed, and 2 code names. Quite a bit more than the 4 you claimed. Let's face it. We all pay more attention to the system we own, and you are no different.

I do admit that Capcom has a lot more coming for PS2 than I had thought, but I STILL don't think that it comes anywhere even close to making the impact that Rare made when they left Nintendo and went to Microsoft.

I doubt if Rare will make more than 2 games for the Xbox, but that's not the point. Rare was a big name, and the name was always associated with Nintendo. Leaving was unprecented. Capcom is more or less a free spirit.

But let's put it this way. Was Square leving Nintendo and going to Sony a big deal, or was it a small thing, as you are implying with Rare going to Microsoft?

EDIT: As Raedius said, we haven't heard anything about Dino Crisis 3 in a while, and the other 2 don't really show a whole lot of support do they?

[Kaiser Sigma]

> That's 9 confirmed, and 2 code names. Quite a bit more than the 4 you claimed. Let's face it. We all pay more attention to the system we own, and you are no different.

See ? that's your problem... you think it's that way. I don't own any 128 bits system, and honestly I'm not going to own one... my opinion is free of influence... yet you fail to see that point...

Anyway, Rare was a big name indeed... but you think it is (or was) greater than Capcom ? come on... be honest about it...

[Exophase]

I claimed 8 Ninja, not four. Read it again. I wasn't biased at all, I was reading through each of the release lists equally. I got almost all the ones you mentioned. The fact is that PS2 has as many (technically several more) Capcom games coming for it, and XBox has a few itself. Ninja, Rare might be a "big name", but they don't compare to Capcom. At least that's my opinion, but I think almost everyone will agree with me there.

- Exo

[Exophase]

Oh, and Square never "left and went with Sony" in a way that is comparable with Rare being bought out by MS. Square decided to not develop for Nintendo for various reasons, but in do way did they ever decide to be exclusive for Sony. They're developing for Nintendo now, aren't they? Do you think Rare is going to be developing for Nintendo again any time soon.

- Exo

[Raedius]

Actually today MS announce plans with Capcom to sell Steel Batallion in Europe next year, does that sound like Capcom is gonna get bought. Also I just heard some news about Dino Crisis 3, it should be out during April.

~Raedius

[Raedius]

New Japanese console sales...


Today, Media Create sent forth some, for lack of a better word, amazing hardware figures covering Japanese sales for the week ending December 15th. To say the past week in the country was good for consoles would be the understatement of the year as everything skyrocketed. This past week saw Game Boy Advance sales jump to a phenomenal 241,600 units, followed by PlayStation 2 with 115,200 units, and GameCube taking up the third place with 67,500 units. Amazingly enough, this week also bode well for Xbox, which managed to pass the 10,000 mark with unit sales of 13,400 for the week. Moving down the chart, sales for most of the old hand held systems increased, with Dreamcast once again returning on the charts right above the discontinued PocketStation.

Game Boy Advance: 241,600 (Annual: 2,821,400)
PlayStation 2: 115,200 (Annual: 3,357,200)
GameCube: 67,500 (Annual: 1,052,300)
Xbox: 13,400 (Annual: 296,200)
PlayStation: 2,800 (Annual: 213,300)
Wonder Swan Crystal: 2,600 (Annual: 107,300)
Wonder Swan Color: 1,700 (Annual: 118,100)
Game Boy Color: 520 (Annual: 81,900)
Game Boy: 370 (Annual: 5,600)
Nintendo 64: 240 (Annual: 6,400)
Wonder Swan: 220 (Annual: 8,400)
Dreamcast: 19 (Annual: 17,500)
PocketStation: 15 (Annual: 1,300)


Wow, Xbox actually sold over 10,000 units this week.

~Raedius

[Kaiser Sigma]

wow... the PSX is still selling ?

[Kane]

>wow... the PSX is still selling ?

Well it does have a huge variety of games, and thanks to the PS2's backwards compatibility, there are still some games coming out for it.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Sure, but you'd expect at this time for ppl to buy a PS2 instead...

[Kane]

Well it's a cheap system, good for those without huge incomes

[Kaiser Sigma]

Yeah, I suppose you are right... anyway, still, it surprised me...

[Kane]

What's more surprising is that the N64 is still selling.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Heh, agree, but even the first gameboy is selling... jap ppl seems to buy all type of stuff... or so it seems.

[Ninjaa]

The N64 had some good games. It's still doing reasonably well in North America. I would expect that Pokemon Stadium is the primary selling factor in Japan.

Raedius, you beat me to posting the hardware sales. GameCube just keeps selling more and more each week. I must say that I am as surprised as you that the Xbox sales picked up that much though. It will be interesting to see if they can keep it up.

But Zelda sold 407,700 copies in 3 days so far. That's pretty respectable considering its userbase compared to PS2 or GBA.

[Napro]

i say ps2 it has squaresoft gamez and a built in DVD player

[Kaiser Sigma]

Actually not... so far Zelda has what it takes to become one of the most sold titles ever... I haven't seen a site which haven't give the game the perfect score...

[Ninjaa]

Oh, without a doubt. I think it will break a million within the next week, and will probably rival FFX in the end. But we will have to see about that. Personally, I am hoping that the game will finally change the tide in the battle. It's just a question of whether or not Nintendo can keep the high sales that they have been having.

[Kaiser Sigma]

A game on its own can't change the tide... but there are other factors... Xenosaga the upcoming "great" title for the PS2 is now suffering censorship for the american versin(or so I've read in these forums)... so that may lessen sales for that game on the PS2, while Zelda doesn't suffer of that problem... we will see...

[Raedius]

The GC didn't have as big of a boost as I thought...

I thought on the heels of Zelda it might overtake the PS2 sales...

Panzer Dragoon Orta came out today in Japan... Lucky basterds :(

~Raedius

[Kaiser Sigma]

Panzer Dragoon Orta... I want to see that game... any info on its sales Raedius ?

[Raedius]

No not yet... I'll have something for you tommorow ;)

~Raedius

[Kaiser Sigma]

Lol, thanks man.

[Ninjaa]

Raedius, it seems that the PS2 has increased dramatically in sales this week as well. I thought that the GameCube would be outselling it as well, but the PS2's sales increased as well. IIRC, GameCube's present sales are better than the PS2's last week.

Kaiser, Zelda is just one game, but there are also a host of other games on GameCube that add to its thunder. Resident Evil 0 is also selling quite well atm, as is Mario Party 4. I guess it's going to take some big RPGs to do a lot of selling.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Tales of Phantasia and Pokemon come out for GameCube.

[Raedius]

Biohazard 0 is ranked 17th on Dengeki sales chart... Mario party 4 is 12th.

~Raedius

[Kraiger Drago]

Originally posted by Ninja
It'll be interesting to see what happens when Tales of Phantasia and Pokemon come out for GameCube.

*Psychic Prediction*
Pokémon would move more GCs than TOP would. TOP is simply not as big of a name as Pokémon is. Good Lord we saw how many GBAs it moved.

Now what will be interesting is when Final Fantasy finally (Gwah) comes out here in the states for the GC. That and Zelda would shake up the numbers more than anything, IMHO. But who knows, the gaming market is a lot more uncertain nowadays than it used to be.

[Ninjaa]

Raedius, GameCube has a much smaller userbase than the GBA or PS2, so I would say that 12th and 15th are pretty good sales.

Kraiger, yes, I forgot about Final Fantasy. :emb:. But Tales of Destiny 2 is currently one of the best selling games in Japan. For one week it actually outsold Pokemon Saphire. :eek: That says to me that Tales of Phantasia on GameCube will be quite well recieved.

But yes, 2003 is going to mark a turnaround of some kind, I am sure of it.

[Raedius]

Ok then the Xbox has a MUCH smaller user base and Megumi Tensai NINE is in 18th place and sold 14,000 units this week. Biohazard sold 15,000 units.

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

Holy crap! That's like 20% of all Xbox owners in Japan who bought that game. It must really be something special. Can you tell me a little about the game?

[Raedius]

The Megumi Tensai series is very popular in Japan...

I have no idea what its about except its an RPG of some kind.

~Raedius

[Exophase]

Shin Megami Tensei is a very longrunning and popular series.. anyway, when a userbase is small it's not surprising that a lot of them buy a game from a really well known series, when there isn't that much else.. seriously what else WOULD they buy? Anything even close to a big name RPG for XBox? Nope..

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

I guess that would explain the extra 5000 Xbox's that were sold in Japan this week anyway, regardless the reason for the game being popular.

Xbox caters mainly to American tastes anyways.

[Raedius]

Actually its probably due to Crimson Sea, O-To-Gi, NINE and with Panzer Dragoon around the corner...

Dead or Alive Extream Beach Volleyball also comes out next month, lol.

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

I doubt DOA Volleyball will sell all that well in Japan, but we'll see. :D

Crimson Sea and Panzer Dragoon do look nice though. I don't know much about the others. Still, I seriously doubt if it will arouse much more than luke warm reception in Japan.

[Raedius]

I think you underestimate the amount of horny boys in Japan. DOA XBV will do fine ;)

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

I might be... but I still think that it won't sell as well as some.

[Raedius]

This review is from SAKU, some Japanese dude on the gamefaqs.com boards.


got the game today and I have to say is that this game is amazing. If you like the Panzer Dragoon series or just shooters in general you are going to love it.

Graphics: 10
These are the best looking graphics I have seen on the Xbox. It really does show the power of the Xbox. So many things appear on the screen at the same time and everything is so detailed. No one should be dissapointed with the graphics. HDTV support as well

Gameplay: 10
It is so much fun. You have to be aware of your surroundings at all times. Because stuff comes at you at all directions. As for the controls, A is for shooting, X is for speeding up, B is for slowing down, Y is for morphing into other dragons, L and R are for changing your view, white button is for super attack. When battling the bosses it is key to use the slow down and speed up buttons or you will die fast. So far I am only on mission 4 so I cant say to mcuh about the extras and other stuff like that. But from what I have played so far this game is a must own. There are also multiple paths to take when playing.

Sound: 9
It has great music and good voice acting. When they speak though it is in a language unique to Panzer Dragoon with Japanese subtitles. If you dont have a good grasp of Kanji you will not understand the story at all. Dolb support as well.

Overall: 10
I love this game. It seems that it has lots of great extras to unlock and will take plenty of time to do it. I think you have an Xbox you have to get this game. Finally Xbox in Japan has its killer app. :-)

I will write up a better review after playing the game more. Anyway back to playing. :-)


http://s1.cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=31794&topic=5600009

~Raedius

[Kane]

Well, I went to slashdot this morning, and saw thin: "Console Talk has the story on a settlement between Sony and Nintendo over the rights to the "PlayStation" name, which was originally a joint owned copywrite, given to a CD and Cartridge based system to play SNES games. The settlement is for 10% of Sony's proceeds, past and present on the "PlayStation" name, currently amounting to approximately $2.3 billion. Nintendo is allowing Sony to pay it off in installments over the next 20 years. Nintendo currently plans on using the money to create a new game studio comprised of members of some of the biggest in the japanese industry, in order to create titles exclusively for the GameCube. Hmm, my guess is that Sony's next console will be shying away from the PlayStation moniker..." However, my brother believes it a fake as there is nothing on the club Nintendo forums, and even teh site this supposed info came from no longer has anything.

[Ninjaa]

Yep. This story has been reported twice in these forums. It's basically just some crappy site hoping for some hits. They basically made a compilation of all the current Megaton speculation, and posted it as a fact. Pay it no attention.

[Kane]

I'm glad that it's fake. I feel Nintendo would be really in trouble if they had to rely on stuff like that.

[Exophase]

Heh, that's funny, Sony would never "settle" x billions of dollars to Nintendo over something like that, who would? If that actually happened I'm sure it'd go to court.. btw, I somehow doubt Sony has made $23 billion in net profit over Playstation name. Yes, I realize Ninja immediately said this was fake (not that I would have believed it anyway), so don't jump on me, I'm jus' saying and all.

- Exo

[ChrisRay]

I have a hard time believing Nintendo ever could. I don't even believe Nintendo ever had copyright on the Playstation name. Sony secured that when they were working Nintendo a long time ago

[Shadow Lady]

to the origginal topic, I havent see any PS2 games, no GameCube games, not XBox games, but seeying at the TV commertials I want to buy a PS2, is not the greatest system, but some of those games, rulez big time :P

[Kaiser Sigma]

Well, for now the PS2 is the king of RPGs... and I suppose that's one of the keys to its number 1 position...

[Kraiger Drago]

The actual hardware components of it are a huge help as well: Backward Compatibility and its "free" (not having to buy a seperate kit ala Xbox, or import an entirely different system ala GC) play of DVDs and CDs. Not to mention the sheer volume of games for it. RPGs definitely helped it overseas, but here in the states, the sports games are what have really helped it stay number 1, and the whole year and a half head start it had over the other consoles.

[Raedius]

LOL, yea I read that story too...

The funny thing is they still haven't removed it ;)

~Raedius

[_E_]

DVD playback isnt a big neccessarity. People get consoles for games, DVDs are just a minor option. As i said before on other threads, the PS2 popularity comes from the good reputation the psx had before and ofcourse, because of the backward compability it has. King of Rpgs? yes, but i wouldnt say that this is the main reason. Sport and Action games make up HUGE profits for sony. The only one who mentioned that point was Chrisray and suprisingly, people here are concentrating on RPGs as if this was the only genre available on the PS2. Metal Gear Solid2 , despite for being a let down,. made a huge success. and it wasent an RPG. Wining Eleven and NBA 2002 also were great hits.......and the list goes on....

[Ninjaa]

Nintendo has a new "Did you know?" article up for grabs that I thought I would post.

The first returns are in on holiday video game shopping...and the little elf called momentum has curled up right next to Nintendo. So, while our competitors pass along their side of the story, we thought you would appreciate hearing how the month of November really shook out…

* The November NPD report of sales data from American retailers shows that Nintendo GameCube jumped more than three full percentage points in next generation console share...while Playstation 2 increased two percentage points...all at the expense of Microsoft’s Xbox...which lost five points of the market.

* Unit sales of Nintendo GameCube and Microsoft’s Xbox were dead even in November (468,000 units each) – despite Microsoft giving away two free games with their hardware.

* Nintendo GameCube also showed the biggest jump in software sales, climbing more than 150% over October totals...compared to 97% for the Xbox and 48% for PS2.

* With the smash entry of Metroid Prime, Nintendo GameCube is on track to have four new titles this year eclipse one half-million unit sales, while no new Xbox title has yet to reach that mark Both Metroid Prime for GCN (#2) and Metroid Fusion for GBA (#10) appeared among the top ten sellers for all game sales in November.

* With sell through of 1.3 million units, Game Boy Advance was as popular in November as Playstation 2. Game Boy represents 33% of the total hardware market. Nintendo held 46% of the total hardware share for the month of November, an increase of 11% over October. Sony held 42% (-6%) while Microsoft held only 12% (-5%).

[Raedius]

Microsoft is reporting it has out-sold the GameCube, 2:1 in the UK

~Raedius

[Raedius]

Ok, MS made a press release:


Xbox November Console Sales Hit Record Highs for 2002

MICROSOFT LOGO
Microsoft company logo. (PRNewsFoto)[PM TK]
REDMOND, WA USA 09/03/2002





Strong Game Portfolio and Xbox Live Launch Fuel Growth

REDMOND, Wash., Dec. 19 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- As Santa's elves hustle
to pack his sleigh in preparation for next week's delivery of holiday loot,
it's clear that the Xbox(TM) video game system has topped the wish lists of
video game enthusiasts worldwide. According to NPD Group Inc. data (NPD
Funworld TRSTS November 2002), Xbox achieved its best month of the year for
console sales in November. Data released today by Microsoft Corp. confirms
that from Seattle to Singapore, Austin to Auckland and Detroit to Dublin,
demand for Xbox has reached a fever pitch this holiday, widening the gap
between Xbox and rival Nintendo GameCube while demonstrating that Xbox
delivers a superior gaming alternative to Sony PlayStation 2.
(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20000822/MSFTLOGO )
According to market research firm NPD Group, a record number of Xbox
systems flew off store shelves in November. Fueled by the recent launch of
Xbox Live(TM), a game portfolio boasting 200 titles and a special holiday
offering, sales for November nearly doubled the previous month's volume.
November marked the seventh consecutive month in which Xbox console
sell-through outpaced that of Nintendo GameCube.
A distinct winner among shoppers has been the Xbox Holiday Offer, a
specially priced and packaged system complete with the Xbox console, Xbox
Controller S and two of the best Xbox-exclusive games from Sega, "Sega GT
2002" and "Jet Set Radio Future." In the first two months of availability, the
Xbox Holiday Offer outsold Nintendo's GameCube/Mario offering by 131 percent.*
Individual Xbox game titles also have been selling at a breakneck pace
this holiday season. In November, shoppers snatched up more than 2.4 million
Xbox games, making it the second-highest software sales month since the
platform was introduced. Overall, Xbox has sold 34 percent more games than
Nintendo since either console was introduced. "Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell," a
wildly popular Xbox exclusive from developer Ubi Soft Entertainment, tops the
bestseller list, with nearly a quarter million units sold worldwide in just
the last two weeks of November.
"Sales figures confirm that 'Splinter Cell' on Xbox is at the top of every
gamer's wish list this holiday season," said Tony Kee, vice president of
marketing for Ubi Soft Entertainment. "There has never been a game that uses
lighting, shadows and stealth better than 'Splinter Cell,' and the power of
Xbox helps make that possible. You can see it in magazines, newspapers and
broadcast reports that the consensus is 'Splinter Cell' is the best-looking
and -playing game on the market, and it is only on Xbox this holiday."
Perhaps most telling is the dazzling success of the Xbox Live service,
which allows Xbox gamers in different locations to play against each other
using a broadband connection. Launched just last month in the United States,
the Xbox Live Starter Kits have exceeded sales expectations, eclipsing by
86 percent the number of PlayStation 2 Network Adapters Sony sold in their
first month of availability. Titles such as "MechAssault(TM)," "Tom Clancy's
Ghost Recon" and "Unreal Championship" are proving to be immensely popular
with the Xbox Live crowd, with combined sales of more than 300,000 units in
the United States in November. These top three Xbox Live titles attached at
over 80 percent to the Xbox Live Starter Kit.
"All this data points to the fact that Xbox is well on the way to being a
market leader," said Robbie Bach, chief Xbox officer. "With solid support from
leading developers, more than 300 games in development, 200 games available
for this holiday and many big titles planned for 2003, it is not surprising
that Xbox is at the top of wish lists on several continents."
Holiday highlights for Xbox from around the world include the following:

Europe

-- Sales of the Xbox holiday offering have catapulted Xbox into the No. 2
spot across the continent. (Source: ChartTrack & GfK)
-- In the United Kingdom, the largest video game market in Europe, Xbox is
consistently outselling GameCube by more than two to one this holiday.
(Source: ChartTrack)
-- The Xbox Live Consumer Beta and Test Drive program have been a great
success, and momentum continues to build for the European retail
launch, which is on track for March 14, 2003.

Australia

-- The sales gap between Xbox and Sony PlayStation 2 last week narrowed to
only 4 percent (source: Inform) as Christmas shoppers made Xbox the
home entertainment gift of choice.
-- Xbox weekly market share doubled to 46 percent over the past eight
weeks. In the last two weeks of November alone, gift-givers Down Under
grabbed more than 23,000 Xbox units. (Source: Inform)

Asia

-- Xbox launched in Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan last month and is now
available at more than 230 select retail outlets throughout the region.
Xbox will be available in Korea Dec. 23.
-- At an Xbox launch event in Singapore Nov. 21, more than 5,000 people
lined up to buy Xbox systems before the event stocks sold out. At a
similar event the next day in Hong Kong, shoppers cleaned out the
initial stock in just three hours.
-- New Xbox games are arriving in Asia every week. Plans call for up to
50 new games from Microsoft and other leading game publishers.

Japan

-- Holiday sales are going well with competitive holiday offers available
to consumers throughout Japan.
-- There are more than 75 titles available for Xbox in Japan during this
holiday season. New holiday titles include "Shin Megami Tensei Nine,"
"Panzer Dragoon(TM)" and "O-TO-GI," "Blinx(TM): The Time Sweeper(TM)"
and "Kakuto Chojin(TM)."
-- A consumer beta of Xbox Live is successfully underway to 5,000 gamers.
Xbox Live is set to launch Jan. 16, 2003, with Sega's "Phantasy Star
Online Episode I and II" and other exciting launch titles.

Mexico

-- The first launch of a video game platform in Mexico kicked off very
successfully. Xbox officially launched in October and is the
next-generation console most widely available at Mexican retail
(718 outlets).


~Raedius

[Samor]

Originally posted by Kingstar
DVD playback isnt a big neccessarity. People get consoles for games, DVDs are just a minor option. As i said before on other threads, the PS2 popularity comes from the good reputation the psx had before and ofcourse, because of the backward compability it has. King of Rpgs? yes, but i wouldnt say that this is the main reason. Sport and Action games make up HUGE profits for sony. The only one who mentioned that point was Chrisray and suprisingly, people here are concentrating on RPGs as if this was the only genre available on the PS2. Metal Gear Solid2 , despite for being a let down,. made a huge success. and it wasent an RPG. Wining Eleven and NBA 2002 also were great hits.......and the list goes on....

I dont care **** about rpg's. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. ;)

as for the xbox, sure, it's doing pretty good in europe, but they're talking about having success in the largest european marktet: UK. Don't forget that both the US and Japanese markets are bigger than that.

Sorry if there are any typos in my post. I just had a ...uh..number of drinks ^_^

[Raedius]

I like RPGs, just not the turn based Japanese style ones...

~Raedius

[Kaiser Sigma]

> I dont care **** about rpg's. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

True, but overall, they are one of the most influent genres amongst the gamers at the time of picking a console... at least that's what I think...

[Samor]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> I dont care **** about rpg's. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

True, but overall, they are one of the most influent genres amongst the gamers at the time of picking a console... at least that's what I think...

yeah , they are, ever since ff7 came out :p
but mostly hardcore gamers though; and a rather large number of gamers are not "hardcore"
;)

[Exophase]

RPGs are very mainstream, maybe not in Europe but in Japan especially and to a lesser degree America.

- Exo

[Samor]

oh yeah. Japan again. I keep forgetting them. =P ...maybe it's because I dont live there ;)

The snes was popular in europe, yet roughly 1% of all rpgs released for that system came to europe....the system was still popular, even when it was seriously lacking rpgs; in fact, I think that before FF7 there wasnt much interest in rpgs in Europe at all with a few exceptions.

Anyway, it seems that RPG are nowadays way more popular than before. They're "in".

[Exophase]

The SNES has also been dead for well over 5 years. What does it have to do with anything? When you say RPG's are "in" you make them sound like a fad. But if you think they're suddenly going to suddenly lose popularity, you're surely mistaken.

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

> oh yeah. Japan again. I keep forgetting them. =P ...maybe it's because I dont live there

I wasn't speaking about that... anyway, at least in my country the 2 favorites genres are RPGs and FPS...

> The SNES has also been dead for well over 5 years. What does it have to do with anything? When you say RPG's are "in" you make them sound like a fad. But if you think they're suddenly going to suddenly lose popularity, you're surely mistaken.

I read a lot of video magazines from Europe back then... and Samor is quite right, they didn't had FFIV nor FFVI... if I'm not mistaken one of the first RPG they played was Secret of Mana (well, it's not a pure RPG, but...)...
So far, I know they got Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Illusion of Gaia... I'm not sure about Chrono Trigger, but I'm sure that RPGs weren't the main selling point for the Snes, they relied completely in the rest of the genres. Yet, in the polls the Snes was in top of the list by a great margin...

[_E_]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> oh yeah. Japan again. I keep forgetting them. =P ...maybe it's because I dont live there

I wasn't speaking about that... anyway, at least in my country the 2 favorites genres are RPGs and FPS...

> The SNES has also been dead for well over 5 years. What does it have to do with anything? When you say RPG's are "in" you make them sound like a fad. But if you think they're suddenly going to suddenly lose popularity, you're surely mistaken.

I read a lot of video magazines from Europe back then... and Samor is quite right, they didn't had FFIV nor FFVI... if I'm not mistaken one of the first RPG they played was Secret of Mana (well, it's not a pure RPG, but...)...
So far, I know they got Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Illusion of Gaia... I'm not sure about Chrono Trigger, but I'm sure that RPGs weren't the main selling point for the Snes, they relied completely in the rest of the genres. Yet, in the polls the Snes was in top of the list by a great margin...

I dont think we can compare the Japanese merchandise with the crap we get worldwide. Japan has TONS of japanese exclusive games, such as Royal Stone for Game Gear. It was a top seller there and never got exported. Also many games get released there first before we even hear about it. Xenosaga was released 9 months ago and until now, we didnt get the translated version.

edit: Japan is like a different gaming world. Some people live and sleep on thier consoles....

[Ninjaa]

Japan is the biggest video game market on the planet. The reason simply being that it is firmly integrated into their culture at this point. Japan is a nation full of addicts...

[Kaiser Sigma]

Which BTW, isn't necesarily a good thing...

[Ninjaa]

No way! Addicts make the best dru.... I mean video games! :emb:

[Kaiser Sigma]

Not only with video games... I read a magazine about Pokemon Trading Cards... those guys play it like wild psychos... (not to mention that they dress like them too)

[Ninjaa]

Two news tidbits I thought worthy of mention in this thread.

Ubi Soft will release Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell for both PlayStation 2 and GameCube in March 2003. Unconfirmed tidbits said the PS2 and GC versions will have additional levels not found in the Xbox version.

Bloody good to hear. They are putting that time that MS bought to good use. :)

Capcom's executive vice president Heiji Oshima has denied the rumors about Nintendo acquiring Capcom, the company does not have plans to merge or co-operate with another company. He said these reports about Nintendo purchasing Capcom were completely wrong. After Capcom's announcement, its stock price has dropped sharply in Japan.

Kaiser, you should be pretty happy to hear this one. ;)

[Exophase]

HEH, its stocks dropped.. oh well. I think an "I told you so" is in order ;)

- Exo

[Raedius]

Panzer Dragoon is in 8th spot in the Yahoo Japan daily rankings... The nearest GC game is Mario Party 4 in tenth spot, Zelda is... somewhere else... Those top 4 PS2 games all came out on the 19th to push the whole ranking of other games down :p

1 PS2 Unlimitedness: Saga ƒXƒNƒEƒFƒA RPG 2002/12/19
2 PS2 Encounter ƒpƒ`ƒXƒ� winning technique! Fierce animal king ƒTƒ~�[ TBL 2002/12/19
3 PS2 METAL GEAR SOLID 2 SUBSTANCE ƒRƒiƒ~ AVG 2002/12/19
4 PS2 King of colloseum (red) - new Japanese X all the Japanese X flat tire lath disks - Spike SPT 2002/12/19
5 GBA Pocket monster sapphire Nintendo Co. RPG 2002/11/21
6 GBA Pocket monster ruby Nintendo Co. RPG 2002/11/21
7 GBA With selfish fair Lee ƒ~ƒ‹ƒ‚ ƒ|ƒ“! Legend of golden ƒ}ƒ‰ƒJƒX ƒRƒiƒ~ AVG 2002/12/19
8 XB ƒpƒ“ƒcƒ@�[ƒhƒ‰ƒO�[ƒ“ alter first limited edition Sega STG 2002/12/19
9 PS2 Live powerful professional baseball 9 authorized edition ƒRƒiƒ~ SPT 2002/12/19
10 GC ƒ}ƒŠƒIƒp�[ƒeƒB - 4 Nintendo Co. TBL 2002/11/8

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/ranking/ori/game/game_d.html

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

Now this I cannot accept. I want to wait for the Dengeki charts before commenting on this one. Zelda has already sold half a million copies, but I can't see it simply stopping all of a sudden.

[Shiori]

LOL, did you use The Fish for that? :D Here's the Dec. 2o rankings:

ƒQ�[ƒ€�iƒfƒCƒŠ�[2002/12/18“ú•t�j ŒŽ—j�`‹à—j �X�V

�‡ˆÊ ‹@Ží ƒ^ƒCƒgƒ‹ ”_”„Œ³ ƒWƒƒƒ“ƒ‹ ”_”„“ú
1 GBA ƒ|ƒPƒbƒgƒ‚ƒ“ƒXƒ^�[ ƒTƒtƒ@ƒCƒA ”C“V“° RPG 2002/11/21
2 GBA ƒ|ƒPƒbƒgƒ‚ƒ“ƒXƒ^�[ ƒ‹ƒr�[ ”C“V“° RPG 2002/11/21
3 GC ƒ[ƒ‹ƒ_‚Ì“`�à •—‚̃^ƒNƒg ”C“V“° RPG 2002/12/13
4 PS2 ƒ��[ƒ‹ƒhƒTƒbƒJ�[ƒEƒCƒjƒ“ƒOƒCƒŒƒuƒ“6 ƒtƒ@ƒCƒiƒ‹ƒGƒ”ƒHƒŠƒ…�[ƒVƒ‡ƒ“ ƒRƒiƒ~ SPT 2002/12/12
5 GC ƒ}ƒŠƒIƒp�[ƒeƒB�[4 ”C“V“° TBL 2002/11/8
6 GBA ƒoƒgƒ‹ƒlƒbƒgƒ��[ƒN ƒ�ƒbƒNƒ}ƒ“ƒGƒOƒ[3 ƒJƒvƒRƒ“ ACT 2002/12/6
7 PS2 ƒ‰ƒ`ƒFƒbƒg�•ƒNƒ‰ƒ“ƒN ƒAƒNƒVƒ‡ƒ“ƒpƒbƒN SCEJ ACT 2002/12/3
8 PS2 SDƒKƒ“ƒ_ƒ€ GGENERATION NEO ƒoƒ“ƒ_ƒC SLG 2002/11/28
9 PS2 ƒeƒCƒ‹ƒY ƒIƒu ƒfƒXƒeƒBƒj�[2 ƒiƒ€ƒR RPG 2002/11/28
10 PS2 ƒMƒ‹ƒeƒBƒMƒAƒCƒOƒ[ƒNƒX ƒTƒ~�[ ACT 2002/12/12

[Raedius]

I don't really see Zelda as that big of a system seller... Everyone who would have wanted Zelda would have gotten a GameCube months ago or even at launch.

Dengeki doesn't have a daily sales chart.

~Raedius

[Raedius]

LOL, yea I used "The Fish", hehe... They have the best translations :)

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Raedius
I don't really see Zelda as that big of a system seller... Everyone who would have wanted Zelda would have gotten a GameCube months ago or even at launch.

:eek: Excuse me?

[Raedius]

Just as I know alot of people buying an Xbox right now to get Fable... They aren't going to wait until Fable comes out in stores to actually get an Xbox.

As such I don't think GameCube will get that big of a boost in sales just because of Zelda just came out.

Actually now that I think about it, Fable is wrong to use in this becuase I also know alot of people have no idea what Fable is until I tell them, while everyone knows about Zelda. Whatever...

~Raedius

[Shiori]

Ok, I just translated it :heh: :

Dec. 20 rankings:

1 GBA Pokemon Sapphire RPG 2002/11/21
2 GBA Pokemon Ruby RPG 2002/11/21
3 GC Zeruda no Densetsu Kaze no Takuto RPG 2002/12/13
4 PS2 World Soccer Winning Eleven 6 SPT 2002/12/12
5 GC Mario Party 4 TBL 2002/11/8
6 GBA Battle Network Rockman EXE 3 ACT 2002/12/6
7 PS2 Ratchet and Clank Action Packed SCEJ ACT 2002/12/3
8 PS2 SD Gundam G GENERATION NEO ƒoƒ“ƒ_ƒC SLG 2002/11/28
9 PS2 Tales of Destiny 2 ƒiƒ€ƒR RPG 2002/11/28
10 PS2 Guilty Gear XX ACT 2002/12/12

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Raedius
Just as I know alot of people buying an Xbox right now to get Fable... They aren't going to wait until Fable comes out in stores to actually get an Xbox.


Care to explain why GameCube sales increased by like 200% right before and after Zelda came out then? Same thing happened to GBA sales when Pokemon Ruby and Saphire came out.

I bought my GameCube over a year ago to play Zelda and Mario, but not all people are like that. I am still going to wait for Dengeki.

EDIT: Shiori, thank you for the proper translation. :D

[Raedius]

No thats wrong.. Its weird... Those are the December 18th rankings. I know because I looked at them on the 18th.

And the games released on 2002/12/19 are not on the list.

~Raedius

[Raedius]

Originally posted by Ninja


Care to explain why GameCube sales increased by like 200% right before and after Zelda came out then? Same thing happened to GBA sales when Pokemon Ruby and Saphire came out.

I bought my GameCube over a year ago to play Zelda and Mario, but not all people are like that. I am still going to wait for Dengeki.

Yea so? Whats your point? Ps2, GameCube and Xbox all drastically increased at that time.

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

Ok, I have figured out the problem... sort of. Raedius, you have the wrong link.

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/ranking/ori/game/021220/game_d.html

This is the correct one that Shiori translated. I can't read all of it, but I can definately read the top 3 games. Nintendo is kicking ass.

And Raedius, I think it's immediately obvious that Zelda is a system seller.

[Raedius]

Uhhh it says 2002/12/18 at the top of that link...

Thats for the 18th... BEFORE all the games on the 19th came out...

~Raedius

[Shiori]

Just how many games are scheduled for release on the 19th anyway? :confused: Any significant ones, like Tokimemo or Chobits? :p

[Yeloazndevil]

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/ranking/ori/game/game_d.html

this one is for the 19th

[Ninjaa]

I'm still waiting for Dengeki. The links on that site are messed. They don't lead where they are supposed to.

[Raedius]

Panzer Dragoon Orta and Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance are the big ones I guess...

~Raedius

[Raedius]

Originally posted by yeloazndevil
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/ranking/ori/game/game_d.html

this one is for the 19th

Yea... Thats what I said.

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

Panzer Dragoon Orta and Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance are the big ones I guess...

Well, I guess that's one slanted viewpoint of the situation. :D

[Shiori]

Damn I dunno what's ****ing right anymore...

I'll try to translate that link of Skuld Boy. :p BBL.

[Raedius]

Originally posted by Ninja
Panzer Dragoon Orta and Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance are the big ones I guess...

Well, I guess that's one slanted viewpoint of the situation. :D

Considering thats one Xbox game and one PS2 game on the list...

Sorry no GCN games released on the 19th made the top ten. The rest of the games released on the 19th I don't know about so can't comment.

How is that slanted?

~Raedius

[Yeloazndevil]

Originally posted by Raedius


Yea... Thats what I said.

~Raedius

u did? :emb:

to Shiori: Skuld Boy.............

[Raedius]

Well, I didn't actually SAY it but I guess it was kinda given I would post the current chart :)

~Raedius

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Raedius


Considering thats one Xbox game and one PS2 game on the list...

Sorry no GCN games released on the 19th made the top ten. The rest of the games released on the 19th I don't know about so can't comment.

How is that slanted?

~Raedius

I just mean that you picked out the two games that are on Xbox while ignoring everything else.

To me it seems that according to that list, Unlimited Saga is kicking lots of ass (Of course), Whatever that thing with lots of Kanji in it is in #2 is also kicking ass, Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance is met with a welcome, and the 20,000 people in Japan with Xbox's went out and bought Panzer Dragoon, as they needed to justify occupying a huge portion of their house with the thing. :D

How much you want to bet that it's going to be Zelda vs Unlimited Saga when Dengeki is updated?

[Shiori]

Originally posted by yeloazndevil

to Shiori: Skuld Boy.............

Yeah, because it's easier to type than yellowanzdevil or whatever... :heh:

Anyway,

1 PS2 Unlimited:Saga RPG 2002/12/19

2 PS2 Jitsusen (Reality War) Pachsuro(?) Hitsushohou (sure victory) ! Moujuuou(Fierce Animal King) [damned Kanji...] TBL 2002/12/19

3 PS2 METAL GEAR SOLID 2 SUBSTANCE AVG 2002/12/19

4 PS2 Kingu oubu Koroshiamu (King of Coliseum) [Akai (Red)] Shin Nippon X Zen Nippon X Pankurasu Disuku SPT 2002/12/19

5 GBA Pokemon Sapphire RPG 2002/11/21

6 GBA Pokemon Ruby RPG 2002/11/21

7 GBA Wagamama (Selfish) Fairy Mirumodepon! Kin Marakasu no Densetsu (Legend of the Gold Maracas (HUH?!?!?!)) AVG 2002/12/19

8 XB Panzer Dragoon Orta: Limited Edition STG 2002/12/19

9 PS2 Jitkyo Pawahuru Puro Yakyuu 9: Ket-teihan (True Powerful Pro Baseball 9: Definitive Edition) SPT 2002/12/19

10 GC Mario Party 4 (finally, something easy to understand) TBL 2002/11/8

[Samor]

Originally posted by Exophase
The SNES has also been dead for well over 5 years. What does it have to do with anything? When you say RPG's are "in" you make them sound like a fad. But if you think they're suddenly going to suddenly lose popularity, you're surely mistaken.

- Exo

well, atm indeed, prolly not. and, since the whole rpg thing itself is older than computer games I dont see it dissapearing anytime soon, heh. But the popularity might decrease, gradually, just like it has increased over the past years (it might still increase), but indeed , you're right, it's not a hype thats in for a few months and then "wham", it's over. This one takes longer than that ^^


oh, and pokemon outselling zelda hm?

duh.

[ChrisRay]

Samor. I just think this forum is highly populated with RPGS, As much as I hate to stereo type (and I admit to stereo typing)

You will find that birds of a feather flock together.


As people who like emulation a lot generally tend to steer towards RPGS. It's not something that I can explain. It's just something you'll notice.

Btw. I realise its a stereo type and there's no basic facts to prove or disprove what I am saying.

It's just something I have noticed. Emulation crowd just seems like a type of community which steers towards RPGS.

[T.O.F.K.A.Z]

Originally posted by Raedius at 21-12-2002 06:28 AM
Panzer Dragoon Orta and Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance are the big ones I guess...

~Raedius

Originally posted by Raedius at 21-12-2002 06:29 AM
Yea... Thats what I said.
~Raedius

Learn to use the edit button please multi-posting in about a minute is so annoying. i'm telling you this as a friend , mods/admins don't like that sort of behavior so try to cut down on it , OK ;)

Sorry for going :topicoff: here but it's making this thread a whole lot harder to get through.

[Samor]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
Samor. I just think this forum is highly populated with RPGS, As much as I hate to stereo type (and I admit to stereo typing)

You will find that birds of a feather flock together.


As people who like emulation a lot generally tend to steer towards RPGS. It's not something that I can explain. It's just something you'll notice.

Btw. I realise its a stereo type and there's no basic facts to prove or disprove what I am saying.

It's just something I have noticed. Emulation crowd just seems like a type of community which steers towards RPGS.

depends largely on which forum you're looking at. There never were that much rpg fans at VGN, and I think Retrogames not either. There seem to be more fans of arcade games there, and C64/amiga. However, in the case of PSX emulation and next-gen emulation, you might be right.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Samor


depends largely on which forum you're looking at. There never were that much rpg fans at VGN, and I think Retrogames not either. There seem to be more fans of arcade games there, and C64/amiga. However, in the case of PSX emulation and next-gen emulation, you might be right.


Yes I suppose kinds of emulation would make a difference too. I doubt MAME users spend much time talking about RPGS on a MAME forum :)

And please forgive me. But VGN is not a site I visit much. So please clarify on that.


I notice console emulation seems to have the most RPG addicts. Snes9x forums had RPG whackos :)

[Samor]

well, I dont visit VGN anymore either nowadays =P
but yes, it depends a lot on the system that is emulated too;
and I also think that japan fans and rpg freaks go well together ;)

[ChrisRay]

Hey I love RPGS , Expecially D&D type RPGS, But I'm not fan of Japan :)

[Syed Fawad]

I just thought about making my contributions to this beautiful thread again ;). Here goes. Let’s see. I have here invented a marks system in which each system is awarded a point based on its games’ quality x quantity product and its competition to other systems in a particular genre.

However, remember that this just totally my opinion and I try to remain as unbiased as possible. I have NO hatred or personal inclination towards either Microsoft or Nintendo or Sony.

Now back to the real stuff. Each genre constitutes of three points. A console, if has the best quality/quantity product and other’s are simply not up to it, then three whole points are awarded to it. Simply if a genre is equally good on all systems, then each system will get one point. There may be other huge ways of divisions as well ;)

Here goes:

Action/Adventure :

PS2: 2
GCN: 0.5
XBX: 0.5

The Action/adventure constitutes a huge portion of the total games available in the market. With two GTAs, MGS2, DMC, LOTR TTT, etc the PS2 leads but doesn’t get a clean sweep for obvious reasons.

Role Playing

PS2: 3
GCN: 0
XBX: 0

The Sheer number if great RPGs on the PS2 make it an RPG-land. Sure XBOX and GC have RPGS out and on the horizon but Suikoden3, FFX, FFX-2, Wild Arms3, Legaia2, Kingdom Hearts, Xenosaga and others are simply too much.


Sports

PS2: 1
GCN: 1
XBX: 1

The sports market is dominated by EA, and the good thing is that they plan to release there titles multiplatform. So these titles are equally impressive on all consoles.

Extreme Sports

PS2: 1
GCN: 1
XBX: 1

The Ext. Sports genre is also equally impressive on all consoles. THPS and others are all multiplatform.


Racing

PS2: 1.5
GCN: 0.75
XBX: 0.75

I guess I did justice to this genre as well. I also included those wipeout type racers in this one.


Fighting

PS2: 3
GCN: 0
XBX: 0

Sure Xbox has DOA3 but can a single game stand against DOA2 HC, Tekken Tag, Tekken4 and Virtua Fighter4? Simple answer. NO!


Plat formers

PS2: 1.5
GCN: 1.5
XBX: 0

I gave PS2 and GC equal marks because we are talking about quality/quantity product. PS2 have Jak and Daxter, Sly Cooper and Ratchet & Clank.


First Person

PS2: 0.5
GCN: 1.25
XBX: 1.25

I didn’t call it FPS just to include Metroid in this category. Xbox has Halo; GC has the GAME of The Year 2002 Metroid Prime. PS2 chips in with a few military shooters.


Wrestling

PS2: 2.5
GCN: 0
XBX: 0.5

I was about to give 3 points to PS2 but then, Raw2 came to my mind……


Survival Horror

PS2: 0
GCN: 3
XBX: 0

I say GC defines survival horror better than any other console ever had. With a **** load of Resident Evils, when you get Eternal Darkness like games, I call it CLEAN SWEEP.



Online

PS2: 2
GCN: 0
XBX: 1

I could care less about online games but WTH.



Other/ Misc

PS2: 1.5
GCN: 1.5
XBX: 0

When I say others, I meant Twisted Metal, Commandos, Sims for the PS2; Pikmin, Animal crossing, Mario party for GC and non for XBOX.


Now to sum up all the scores:

PS2: 19.5 (54.17%)
GCN: 10.5 (29.16%)
XBOX: 6 :D (16.67%)

Woah, quite similar %ages to that of this thread :)

I won’t mind if anyone disagrees. But if you want to disagree, you pick out genre(s) and discuss why the marks should be different. Here we go again. ENJOY ;)

[Drack]

Originally posted by Fawad

Online

PS2: 2
GCN: 0
XBX: 1

I could care less about online games but WTH.


I think XBOX is way better in this arena. Compaired to PS2 the XBOX has better online games, you actully have a place to store downloads, voice communication and the games arn't filled HPBs.

[Syed Fawad]

I don't seem to remember any XBOX online titles. Help me with it will ya?

[Samor]

Originally posted by Fawad
Racing

PS2: 1.5
GCN: 0.75
XBX: 0.75

I guess I did justice to this genre as well. I also included those wipeout type racers in this one.

I'd rate xbox higher than GCN on this one; it has project gotham racer, rallisport challenge and sega gt 2002.



Plat formers

PS2: 1.5
GCN: 1.5
XBX: 0

I gave PS2 and GC equal marks because we are talking about quality/quantity product. PS2 have Jak and Daxter, Sly Cooper and Ratchet & Clank.

xbox has toe jam & earl 3, blinx, shrek, oddworld. should have gotten higher than 0.


there. ^^

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Fawad
Action/Adventure :

PS2: 2
GCN: 0.5
XBX: 0.5

The Action/adventure constitutes a huge portion of the total games available in the market. With two GTAs, MGS2, DMC, LOTR TTT, etc the PS2 leads but doesn�t get a clean sweep for obvious reasons.

And we seem to be forgetting all about Dead to Rights, Killer 7, PN03, Dead Phoenix, Legend of Zelda, and a whole whack of others on the GameCube? (BTW, Two Towers is on GameCube as well I believe. At any rate, I don't think it's anything to write home about. :D)

Originally posted by Fawad
Role Playing

PS2: 3
GCN: 0
XBX: 0

The Sheer number if great RPGs on the PS2 make it an RPG-land. Sure XBOX and GC have RPGS out and on the horizon but Suikoden3, FFX, FFX-2, Wild Arms3, Legaia2, Kingdom Hearts, Xenosaga and others are simply too much.

Come on, I am not about to say that the GameCube has a bigger RPG lineup than the PS2, but it's no slouch either. If you are a hardcore RPG player, you are going to have to get a GameCube because there are some pretty high profile games coming out for it.

Originally posted by Fawad
Fighting

PS2: 3
GCN: 0
XBX: 0

Sure Xbox has DOA3 but can a single game stand against DOA2 HC, Tekken Tag, Tekken4 and Virtua Fighter4? Simple answer. NO!

You seem to forget about the only GameCube game to break a million copies in Japan to date. It was a fighting game by the name of SSBM. That fact alone means the GameCube deserves a little more than a zero.

I might comment that the Xbox deserves a higher mark too, but I could really care less, and DOA3 really isn't that good of a game.

Originally posted by Fawad
Plat formers

PS2: 1.5
GCN: 1.5
XBX: 0

I gave PS2 and GC equal marks because we are talking about quality/quantity product. PS2 have Jak and Daxter, Sly Cooper and Ratchet & Clank.

Come on. That's just BS! How can anything on PS2 compete with the likes of Super Mario Sunshine, Star Fox Adventures, or Sonic Adventure? GameCube owns the platformer arena. :D

Originally posted by Fawad
First Person

PS2: 0.5
GCN: 1.25
XBX: 1.25

I didn�t call it FPS just to include Metroid in this category. Xbox has Halo; GC has the GAME of The Year 2002 Metroid Prime. PS2 chips in with a few military shooters.

Personally I think it's a sin to compare Halo with Metroid Prime, and I would Metroid Prime in Adventure where it belongs, but even still, I don't think that GCN and Xbox should be leading by that much. The best FPS on consoles right now would be Timesplitters 2, and it's multiconsole. Another good one is Medal of Honor Frontline, and I don't believe it appears on Xbox, although I could be wrong. I would advise boosting PS2's score a lot on this one. Halo is about the only FPS that Microsoft has that isn't multiplatform.

Originally posted by Fawad
Online

PS2: 2
GCN: 0
XBX: 1

I could care less about online games but WTH.

I care even less than you, but this is just wrong. PS2 has like 1 or 2 online games, and they aren't really anything special. FFXI is a biggie I guess, but by most accounts the game sucks. Where does that leave you? I don't think that 2 points is fair.

GameCube has a single online game at the moment, but it beats the hell out of anything on PS2 or Xbox at the moment.

Xbox should have a clear lead at this moment in time though, as Microsoft is the only one that has their act together in this department.

[Carnage]

Ninja stikes again:D ,but ya,you got a big point,NGC is THE best console for platform games!!!

[Samor]

true. mario and sonic are unbeatable ;)

[Drack]

Originally posted by Fawad
I don't seem to remember any XBOX online titles. Help me with it will ya?

Unreal Championchip, Mechassualt, Ghost Recon, NHL 2K3, NFL 2K3, and Halo 2 will be online, also I've heard that they might make a Halo that has online capability. I think there might be more, but these are the only ones I can think off the top of my head. Some games like Splinter Cell have optional downloads.

[Syed Fawad]

Heh. I just seem to forget about all the games now that I have ceased to play them for a while. :D

I forgot that Zelda, Sonic, Starfox, etc are on GC. Time for a revision score?

Here goes Version 1.1:

Action/Adventure :

PS2: 1.5
GCN: 1
XBX: 0.5

The Action/adventure constitutes a huge portion of the total games available in the market. With two GTAs, MGS2, DMC, etc the PS2 leads but doesn’t get a clean sweep for obvious reasons. Dead to Rights is multiplatform.

Role Playing

PS2: 3
GCN: 0
XBX: 0

The Sheer number if great RPGs on the PS2 make it an RPG-land. Sure XBOX and GC have RPGS out and on the horizon but Suikoden3, FFX, FFX-2, Wild Arms3, Legaia2, Kingdom Hearts, Xenosaga and others are simply too much. I don’t think this genre needs consideration. I’ll leave it at that.


Sports

PS2: 1
GCN: 1
XBX: 1

The sports market is dominated by EA, and the good thing is that they plan to release there titles multiplatform. So these titles are equally impressive on all consoles.

Extreme Sports

PS2: 1
GCN: 1
XBX: 1

The Ext. Sports genre is also equally impressive on all consoles. THPS and others are all multiplatform.


Racing

PS2: 1.5
GCN: 0.5
XBX: 1

I guess I did justice to this genre as well. I also included those wipeout type racers in this one.


Fighting

PS2: 2
GCN: 0.5
XBX: 0.5

Sure Xbox has DOA3 but can a single game stand against DOA2 HC, Tekken Tag, Tekken4 and Virtua Fighter4? Simple answer. NO!
DOA3 earned XBOX a 0.5 point and SSBM got 0.5 point for GC.


Plat formers

PS2: 0.5
GCN: 2
XBX: 0.5

PS2 have Jak and Daxter, Sly Cooper and Ratchet & Clank. I forgot about Sonic in the last version. Imagine that! :p


First Person

PS2: 1
GCN: 1
XBX: 1

I didn’t call it FPS just to include Metroid in this category. Xbox has Halo; GC has the GAME of The Year 2002 Metroid Prime. PS2 chips in with a few military shooters.


Wrestling

PS2: 2.5
GCN: 0
XBX: 0.5

I was about to give 3 points to PS2 but then, Raw2 came to my mind……


Survival Horror

PS2: 0.5
GCN: 2
XBX: 0.5


I say GC defines survival horror better than any other console ever had. With a **** load of Resident Evils, when you get Eternal Darkness like games, I call it CLEAN SWEEP.
Now I come to think of it, XBOX and PS2 have SH2 and SH3. It at least deserves a little recognition.



Online

PS2: 1
GCN: 0
XBX: 2

I could care less about online games but WTH. Unreal Championchip, Mechassualt, Ghost Recon, NHL 2K3, NFL 2K3, and Halo 2 are for XBOX. PS2 have SOCOM, TM Black online. And also FFXI and RE online (though they doesn’t seem to be impressive but when you talk online, I guess anything goes.)



Other/ Misc

PS2: 1.5
GCN: 1.5
XBX: 0

When I say others, I meant Twisted Metal, Commandos, Sims for the PS2; Pikmin, Animal crossing, Mario party for GC and non for XBOX.


Now to sum up all the scores:

PS2: 17
GCN: 10.5
XBOX: 8.5

Now we may see Version 1.2 as well if someone can speak up for XXXBOX.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Online

PS2: 1
GCN: 0
XBX: 2

The GCN has PSO, a game with a GREAT comunity of players, trust me all the guys I know in that game already have the game for the GCN and are looking for the modem to play the game (since the game comes with a free month trial). Only one game ? yes, but since it inherited the comunity of the DC I'd give the GC no less than 2 (and no more either)...

[Exophase]

Uh.. what about PSO being on XBox and PC? Even still there's no way this one game deserves 2/3 of the points here...

- Exo

[_E_]

Online games are still " young" ...nt many people care about them.....I would exclude that from the review, but anyways,.....

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Fawad
I don't seem to remember any XBOX online titles. Help me with it will ya?


Future releases and current releases of Xbox online titles.

NFL Fever 2003

Unreal Championship

Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon

SEGA Sports NFL 2K3

MechAssault

SEGA Sports NBA 2K3

Whacked!

Capcom vs. SNK 2 EO


SEGA Sports NCAA College Basketball 2K3

SEGA Sports NHL 2K3



There's a few demos which I won't post here due them being demos.

Ahh yes.

Obviously this comes from the Xbox Live site.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kingstar
Online games are still " young" ...nt many people care about them.....I would exclude that from the review, but anyways,.....

They are only young on consoles. Online games have been around for years, and they are the exact selling point to PC games.

Consoles could easily take the PCS strongest selling point if they just go at it by the throat.


The sports market is dominated by EA, and the good thing is that they plan to release there titles multiplatform. So these titles are equally impressive on all consoles.

your very easily dismissing Sega Sports which produces a large amount of Sports titles. Who are by all reports and examples. Dropping there gamecube lineup.

This may change in a year. But 2003 they are reconsidering releasing games for the gamecube because they lost so much money on it this year.

don't feel bad, They won't even touch there lineups on the PC anymore.

[_E_]

Originally posted by ChrisRay


They are only young on consoles. Online games have been around for years, and they are the exact selling point to PC games.

Consoles could easily take the PCS strongest selling point if they just go at it by the throat.

if you are refering to successful online games such as Counterstrike and Unreal Tornament, i would certainly agree. but dont forget that PC games are different than console games. and to say the truth, people expect consoles to be something different from a PC, not a " PC-replica"

[ChrisRay]

if you are refering to successful online games such as Counterstrike and Unreal Tornament, i would certainly agree. but dont forget that PC games are different than console games. and to say the truth, people expect consoles to be something different from a PC, not a " PC-replica"

What does the difference between a console have to do with it's success? If developers take the time to code an online Console game properly with a console in mind. Then Online gaming could be just as easily intergrated into consoles


Btw I'm referring to games way beyond the scopes of First Person Shooters.

Anarchy Online
Everquest
Neverwinter Nights.

RPGS have the greates potential online if done right IMO, They just got to be done right or you'll piss off and disapoint a crowd.

[_E_]

Originally posted by ChrisRay


What does the difference between a console have to do with it's success? If developers take the time to code an online Console game properly with a console in mind. Then Online gaming could be just as easily intergrated into consoles


Btw I'm referring to games way beyond the scopes of First Person Shooters.

Anarchy Online
Everquest
Neverwinter Nights.

RPGS have the greates potential online if done right IMO, They just got to be done right or you'll piss off and disapoint a crowd.

Yes, but what am i talking about are gamers themselves. When you get a console, what will you be playing? RPGs, survival horror, sports, action....etc games or are you going to play online? basically, Online games were successful on the PC because ( IMO) the internet was started on the PC and whenever someone metions that word, we remmeber PCs. Plus the wide keyboard , movable mouse and powerful hardware resource.all these create a comfortable online expereince for the gamer. where he can chat and play at the sametime. however on the consoles, you only have 8 buttons to play around, ... and the chat option is not avalbale ( dont say its not neccessary, it IS indeed)

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kingstar


Yes, but what am i talking about are gamers themselves. When you get a console, what will you be playing? RPGs, survival horror, sports, action....etc games or are you going to play online? basically, Online games were successful on the PC because ( IMO) the internet was started on the PC and whenever someone metions that word, we remmeber PCs. Plus the wide keyboard , movable mouse and powerful hardware resource.all these create a comfortable online expereince for the gamer. where he can chat and play at the sametime. however on the consoles, you only have 8 buttons to play around, ... and the chat option is not avalbale ( dont say its not neccessary, it IS indeed)


Everything you listed above is available on a console. Mouses aren't neccasary for games if they are programmed with controllers in mind. So the point is kinda moot. The only reason PC games are coded like they are is because Keyboards and mouses are pretty much certain to be on Every COmputer system. Just like an Xbox or Gamecube controller is fairly certain to be on every game console I listed above.

Chat is available if programmed right. Every Dreamcast game I owned that you played Online supported the Keyboard. Or an Onscreen keyboard. Have you experienced console online gaming? It was the entire reason I bought my dreamcast and my sega saturn netlink prior.



And Hardware is a tricky issue. The Xbox And gamecube are probably more powerful than half the computers the users here use. So thats kinda a moot point. Anyone can program a game around hardware.

The internet can be used on anything thats coded for it. Which Includes consoles,

As a matter of fact. my Sega Saturn Netlink was my first internet experience. I think you should give consoles more credit for the internet capabilities. Because it is there. Just because its not the choice you'd use for internet gaming. Some people Might use it for the same. Just like the PS2 can play DVDS but that was obviously not its primary purpose.

Don't suppose you remember the Planet Web Browser? Small enough to fit onto almost any Piece of hardware so long as it has 512 KB Memory, (heck modern proccessors can store that on there L2 Cache)


Your making a statement that because it was a success on the PC, that it cannot be a success on a console because the two are so different. This is just completely untrue. The Gamecube and the Xbox both have a lot in common with a personal computer. The Only difference is they are dedicated hardware to a specific function. Which only improves there capabilities for gaming online.

Chris

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Uh.. what about PSO being on XBox and PC? Even still there's no way this one game deserves 2/3 of the points here...

For what I've heard the PSO on the XBOX is just a port, with the PC version it IS a port. PSO for the GC features chapter 2 which suposedly (I don't know since I don't own a GC) features a better end for the story of the first one. Besides the add-ons for the GC version are a lot, since I still play the game online I know what the PSO players want... trust me, even though some of them own a XBOX, no one says "I'll continue this game on the XBOX/PC" they all look forward to the GC version, which is reasonable, since it's not a port but a continuation to the original one...

[Ninjaa]

Syed, I still have some SEVERE misgivings about your RPG scores. GameCube is getting Tales of Phantasia, Skies of Arcadia, Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicle and an all new RPG from Namco for CERTAIN.

A true Pokemon RPG in the vein of the GBA games is strongly rumored for GameCube, as well as a remake of the first Parasite Eve. Fire Emblem and Earthbound are also almost certain to appear on GameCube this time around, although they might not come out for a long while yet. Miyamoto has said that he really wants to finish the cancelled Earthbound 64.

[psxyke]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> Uh.. what about PSO being on XBox and PC? Even still there's no way this one game deserves 2/3 of the points here...

For what I've heard the PSO on the XBOX is just a port, with the PC version it IS a port. PSO for the GC features chapter 2 which suposedly (I don't know since I don't own a GC) features a better end for the story of the first one. Besides the add-ons for the GC version are a lot, since I still play the game online I know what the PSO players want... trust me, even though some of them own a XBOX, no one says "I'll continue this game on the XBOX/PC" they all look forward to the GC version, which is reasonable, since it's not a port but a continuation to the original one...

The version for the XBOX will have the same characteristics that the version for the GC :) by the way, I already have the 3 systems :cool: ( 4 with my DC ;) ) but my vote is for the XBOX :)

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Ninja
Syed, I still have some SEVERE misgivings about your RPG scores. GameCube is getting Tales of Phantasia, Skies of Arcadia, Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicle and an all new RPG from Namco for CERTAIN.

A true Pokemon RPG in the vein of the GBA games is strongly rumored for GameCube, as well as a remake of the first Parasite Eve. Fire Emblem and Earthbound are also almost certain to appear on GameCube this time around, although they might not come out for a long while yet. Miyamoto has said that he really wants to finish the cancelled Earthbound 64.


GC may have a decent lineup, but when you put it to competition, it loses. And we're talking about confirmed games.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> GC may have a decent lineup, but when you put it to competition, it loses. And we're talking about confirmed games.

True, still the GC deserves more than 0... 1.5 or 2 no more, no less...

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> GC may have a decent lineup, but when you put it to competition, it loses. And we're talking about confirmed games.

True, still the GC deserves more than 0... 1.5 or 2 no more, no less...

1.5 or 2 out of 3? that is 50%-75% marks for GC for RPGs? that is so totally wrong.

OK if I give GC 1.5 points, it'll leave 1.5 marks for PS2, and by no means GC and PS2's RPG lineup are comparable. And giving GC 2 marks and PS2 1.......OMG, only a Nintendo Fanboy can do that.

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Fawad



GC may have a decent lineup, but when you put it to competition, it loses. And we're talking about confirmed games.

I never said it didn't lose, but it most certainly doesn't have 0.

The fact of the matter is that the GameCube has almost as much for me as the PS2.

PS2 RPGs I want: Xenosaga, Unlimited Saga, Wild Arms 3, Suikoden III, Tales of Destiny 2.
PS2 Maybes: Final Fantasy X, Breath of Fire V

GCN RPGs I want: Skies of Arcadia, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicle, Tales of Phantasia.
GCN Maybes: Namco's Untitled RPG, Lost Kingdoms 2, Giftpia.

PS2 is still leading 2:1, but by no means is GameCube a zero. If you were an RPG gamer, I would call that inexcusable, but I attribute it to your lack of experience.

[Samor]

Originally posted by ChrisRay


They are only young on consoles. Online games have been around for years, and they are the exact selling point to PC games.

Consoles could easily take the PCS strongest selling point if they just go at it by the throat.




your very easily dismissing Sega Sports which produces a large amount of Sports titles. Who are by all reports and examples. Dropping there gamecube lineup.

This may change in a year. But 2003 they are reconsidering releasing games for the gamecube because they lost so much money on it this year.

don't feel bad, They won't even touch there lineups on the PC anymore.

uh..typing of the dead 2003 is coming out. :heh:
at least in japan it is....

[Ninjaa]

Sega sports has lost money on all systems. Word is that they are considering dropping sports on all systems as EA is royally owning them. Personally, that's something I won't even notice.

[Drack]

Really, some of their sports games kicked ass. Even though I do admit that EA's NHL series was way better than sega sport's version. Yet their fotball games were really good. Thats a real loss.

[Ninjaa]

I almost never play or rent sports games. The exceptions are snowboarding and extreme sports games, as they contain some real gameplay elements. Real sports games just bore the hell out of me.

Speaking of which, 1080: Avalanche looks freaking awesome. Have you guys seen the trailer movies for it yet?

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Samor


uh..typing of the dead 2003 is coming out. :heh:
at least in japan it is....


Yippee... typing of the dead ^_^.

Sega Sports currently stated in a diplomatic fashion that they have no interest in releasing their titles for the gamecube or the PC, While the xbox lineup and PS2 lineup they are sticking with.

No way they are gonna drop the XBox lineup due to its success already with XBox Live.

The PS2 is basically gaurenteed revenue. If they drop their titles on PS2. they may As well pack up and forget about the software industry ^_^


Basically. Microsoft is paying Sega too well for their XBox Live Support, Sticking with Sony titles is obviously in their best interest as well

COmpared to the PC and Gamecube titles they have released lately which can't even sell 10,000 Copies.

[Samor]

Originally posted by ChrisRay



Yippee... typing of the dead ^_^.


it's better than nothing...
well...maybe it isnt ^^;



COmpared to the PC and Gamecube titles they have released lately which can't even sell 10,000 Copies.

it also doesnt help reviewers slag off the pc titles in advance. Then again, they (and capcom) are partly to blame for that theirselves due to shoddy porting.

[Exophase]

Originally posted by Ninja


I never said it didn't lose, but it most certainly doesn't have 0.

The fact of the matter is that the GameCube has almost as much for me as the PS2.

PS2 RPGs I want: Xenosaga, Unlimited Saga, Wild Arms 3, Suikoden III, Tales of Destiny 2.
PS2 Maybes: Final Fantasy X, Breath of Fire V

GCN RPGs I want: Skies of Arcadia, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicle, Tales of Phantasia.
GCN Maybes: Namco's Untitled RPG, Lost Kingdoms 2, Giftpia.

PS2 is still leading 2:1, but by no means is GameCube a zero. If you were an RPG gamer, I would call that inexcusable, but I attribute it to your lack of experience.

.. this is silly, why should we only be looking at games YOU want?

If you want to look at massive popularity in Japan, let's see... GCN is the only system not getting a Shin Megami Tensei game, while PS2 is getting two (SMT 3 and SMT Online).. if you're going to talk about Namco's "untitled RPG" which you know nothing about, don't forget to mention their PS2 RPG "Venus and Braves." We've also got an Arc the Lad game coming from Sony.. already out, there's Legaia 2, up and coming the Growlanser games..

Now for the other games I know you know about that you left out.

Dragon Quest 8, which according to you totally dominates RPGs in Japan...

FFXII anyone? I wouldn't be surprised if you thought right now that game could go on GCN now...

Where's Star Ocean 3?!

Phantasy Star remakes.. those are going to PS2 (I'm sure you'll say something about how the GBA ports are better because they're faithful to the originals.. mmkay, well if you want to say that, don't forget that the GBA leaves out the best entry in the series, while the PS2 remakes leave out the worst)...

According to RPGamer there's another "Tales" game for PS2 as well, so that additionally counters the Tales game for GCN and the untitled Namco game.

Now the GCN games you mentioned..

Skies of Arcadia.. oh boy, a port with a new character. Lost Kingdoms 2 and Giftpia.. do I even have to comment? And I have a very good feeling that FF:CC is going to be relatively weak in the RPG department, but that all remains to be seen.

So what DOES GCN have going for it.. a new Tales game. If that Suikoden 3 port was reality I'd think a little differently, but I'm starting to heavily doubt that one.

GCN .5, PS2 2.5. Best it possibly deserves.

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Sorry, I forgot DQ8 and Star Ocean 3. But I don't see how you can dispute that Skies of Arcadia, Tales of Phantasia, and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicle are good games. Namco does have a title for their game, but it's only in Japanese at the moment, and I have forgotten it. It should be good though.

If I was anyone else, would you be disputing this?

[Exophase]

How can I dispute FF:CC will be a good game? It's funny, you seem to have loathed just about everything Square has done in the last 3-4 years but the second they release a GCN game it's guaranteed to be great..? I'm not saying it won't be; there's a good enough chance that it will. But right now I'm seeing this:

"The world is in trouble from the evil plague! Pick one of four SD characters with stupid names to sprinkle magic water on stuff to make things better."

Okay, so that's not really a fair assesment, but the thing is requiring a GBA, REQUIRING one, for crying out loud. That's just not right. :p

As for SoA, like I said. It's a port. No matter how good the game is that seriously lowers its impact. Many of the people who want to have played it have (DC's were very cheap and accessible) and I don't think they're all about to buy it again for a new character, although a lot of people seem to love buying ports for some reason.

Yes Ninja, I would be disputing this with anyone. The fact remains that after months the GCN still hasn't produced a killer RPG. We're all still waiting, while PS2's are coming out nicely. I thought maybe the GCN has had more potential, but nothing has changed in their prospective game lineup, nothing at all. You're very much giving them the benefit of the doubt. You assume Namco/Monolith's game will be great when you know nothing about it, but you aren't even giving Venus and Braves a mention. You conveniently forget several games. And as far as FF:CC is concerned, FFX-2 has probably as much chance as being a good game, and you've already condemned that game senselessly, so...

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Ok, I am a little too drunk to be discussing this, but here goes.

I have seen nothing but goodness from Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles. Nintendo CANNOT allow the game to suck, and I have faith in that fact. Look at the trailer video that TOFKAZ posted to see what I mean. It doesn't require a GBA, although I think the experience is better with one.

As for Killer RPGs, I would say that Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicle or Tales of Phantasia fit that bill.

[Exophase]

Killer RPGs OUT. None are out, while PS2 has several. TWO RPGs aren't going to do anything, and if you look at say, the FF:CC board on GameFAQs, there are lots of mixed feelings. PS2 still has all the big name serieses (FF:CC is an offshoot that doesn't carry the same impact as the main series, and Tales is a big name series but not big enough) and GCN doesn't really have that. PS2 has the RPG userbase, and like I predicted, it will continue getting the RPGs. GCN barely has an RPG future right now. You originally slated that given enough time RPG developers would migrate to GCN, well I think we can all agree that that prospect looks ridiculous right now.

I still want to know how you can justify your overly positive attitude towards FF:CC and your overly negative attitude towards all of Square's recent PSX/PS2 games at the same time. Pick your biases carefully.

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Mixed feelings about FF: CC.... If I remember correctly, what did all the idiots on message boards say about Zelda: wind Waker? Oh yeah, it looks *** and the graphics suck. What did Famitsu say? Oh yeah! It rocked. What's the moral? People at GameFaqs mixed opinions don't mean **** to me.

And if you hadn't noticed, I have been neutral about FFX, negative about FFX-2, cautiously optomistic about FF:CC, and very positive about a Parasite Eve remake. I have been VERY positive about Xenosaga in spite of the fact that there is virtually ZERO chance of it coming to GameCube. I have also been optomistic about BoF5 in spite of bad reviews. Let's leave the stupid biasm out of this shall we? I am sick and ****ing tired of having this label pinned on me.

As for RPG developers migrating to GCN, I don't see how that looks ridiculous even now. Nintendo seems to be picking up a lot of RPG developers as 2nd parties and doing their best to get big names on GameCube.

[Exophase]

Well, your opinions mean **** to me too, I'm just saying... personally, I think Famitsu's screwed up, too, but that's another story. Cautiously optimistic Ninja? Cautious about what, you're insisting the game will be great and it just has to be, end of story. Parasite Eve remake, I haven't heard ANYTHING about this, I think you take your rumor sources a little seriously. Yes, I understand exactly how it is though Ninja, you're hard on Square's PS2 offerings while easy on their alleged GCN ones. You haven't even optimistic about BoF5, in fact you openly said here that you're glad GCN isn't getting it because it sucked so much, and you hope it gets a BoF6 because somehow Capcom will magically decide to "return to its roots."

You don't want to be called biased anymore? Then I have some simple advice for you, stop being so damned biased. Instead of whining and screaming about being called this why don't you take a look at some of the things you say because you're one very biased individual. And of course you wouldn't see the situation with RPGs and the GCN because of this. You know, I almost feel sorry for you, I seriously think you have no idea how deluded you can be sometimes. I don't know if in a year I'm going to give a big I told you so or just sadly nod as you realize the truth of how things were...

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Yeah whatever. I will fight this with you tomorrow. Right not I am too drunk to care. I suggest you check out TOFKAZ's FF: CC thread though, and check out any Xenosaga thread around here. If you can't accept that I might have a good idea now and then, then **** YOU!

EDIT: Your **** doesn't smell any better than mine. You just act like it does. You hold any PS2 game in better light than any GameCube game. Haven't you noticed that the PS2 Tales game is God's gift to gamers, while the GameCube one is crap? Or that maybe Skies of Arcadia might be a good idea for those of us without a Dreamcast? Near as I can tell, a Dreamcast isn't a good investment these days. You don't actually care or learn anything about GameCube games, as you don't own a GameCube. It's easier to just say that I am too biased to speak the truth, and say that the PS2 rules.

[Exophase]

I hold any PS2 game in better light than any GameCube game.. yeah, you ARE drunk. I guess I should wait for you to sober up. Right now you're more making a fool out of yourself than making much of a valid point about anything.

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Drunk or not, I think I have a point. Look at your post, and tell me that with a straight face that everything that you said was the truth.

[Exophase]

I don't see what I've said that can even be contended with. You shoved several words in my mouth though, such as:

"Haven't you noticed that the PS2 Tales game is God's gift to gamers, while the GameCube one is crap?"

I'm at a complete loss as to where you got this. I think you're just seeing things now.

- Exo

[Shiori]

Once this is locked, this goes straight to Closed Threads forum. So if you guys ever want to see this thread on a regular basis, keep it a clean fight.

[Exophase]

Pshah, I don't really care if this thread is locked Shiori, and I think deep down no one else really cares anymore either. Ninja said no flames, but now he's flaming me all over, so maybe this thread has lost something.

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

> 1.5 or 2 out of 3? that is 50%-75% marks for GC for RPGs? that is so totally wrong.

OK if I give GC 1.5 points, it'll leave 1.5 marks for PS2, and by no means GC and PS2's RPG lineup are comparable. And giving GC 2 marks and PS2 1.......OMG, only a Nintendo Fanboy can do that.

Quantity is unequal to quality... yes, the GC doesn't feature 70% of its game as RPGs... yet, do they need to have THAT many to have a good score ?
GC and PS2's RPG lineup aren't comparable. Yet while the PS2 is far from the GC, the GC is doing its best to catch up, a zero means they don't have ANY RPG... that isn't true, and some of the upcoming RPGs are as promising as the ones on the PS2...
Calling me a fanboy is ridiculous, but calling me that on a thread were I fought Ninja until the end that the GC has its flaws is an absolutely act of foolishnes... there you go Syed...

> Pshah, I don't really care if this thread is locked Shiori, and I think deep down no one else really cares anymore either. Ninja said no flames, but now he's flaming me all over, so maybe this thread has lost something.

Mocking that way at an admin (specially when they didn't messed with you) is quite bad... IMO this thread needs a rest... but maybe it's just me...

[Exophase]

Mocking? I don't think you know what mocking is Kaiser, I was just saying I personally don't care if this thread is locked, even though I didn't do anything to warrant locking it. I'm not all that bothered about anything they do, they can go ahead and ban me, although they probably won't because they're more sensible people than that. But look at my post count, what's 500 or so posts? You guys make that many posts in a week.

Anyway. Kaiser, you weren't being called a fanboy. He was saying that only a fanboy would give the GCN a higher rating than the PS2 for RPGs, and he's right. I think you didn't really put that much thought into it. Read my posts about RPGs for GCN/PS2, and tell me that the GCN seriously deserves to be considered more of a potent RPG machine than the PS2. I started a thread once about PS2 vs. GCN vs. XBox as far as RPGs were concerned.. it was closed because apparently "it was too early to tell." The thing is that nothing has changed since then, well nothing concerning RPG status on the GCN, apparently not only has arguing about which console is better went from taboo to acceptable, but a thread that would have been locked months ago is now pinned. But GCN, it's still not nearly as strong as PS2 when it comes to RPGs. If you want to argue with me about it.. well I can argue as long as this thread is open, which might not be that long, but neh.

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

I said that the GC deserves more than 0, Syed replied that the GC wasn't at the level of the PS2 (at RPGs)... now tell me, who is the one that doesn't read the posts ? I never said that the GC was at the same level, he just went and said that for me... as for the "fanboy" part... he addressed me like that in other threads, though I don't expect you to know that... it's not your fault...
As for the mocking part... a bit tense aren't we ? don't take all the stuff I say so seriously... geez, and they say I'm the one who's out of place... anyway, sorry about your closed thread... honestly I don't know why this one is still open...

[Exophase]

You said it didn't deserve a 0, and you ALSO said it deserved a 1.5 or 2, and "no more, no less." Well, maybe you don't understand how Syed's scoring system works, but that's saying that GCN is either as good or better than PS2 in RPGs. So that's why Syed responded as he did. Do you see what I mean?

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

Maybe... but do you really think that the GC deserves a 0 at RPGs ? Come on... that's too low for the few titles it has just right now, and for the upcoming ones... but IMO saying that the GC deserves a 1.5 isn't like saying that they are at the same level... who's the fanboy ? come on, the guy shivers at the idea of Nintendo catching up, not that I care... nevermind, sorry for the "misunderstanding" Exophase...

[Exophase]

No, I said it deserved a .5, and I stand by this. I don't understand how saying it deserves a 1.5 isn't saying it's the same. 3 points, means that if an XBox got a 0, PS2 and GCN would both have 1.5. That'd mean they're the same (or at least close enough so that they both round to the same value). These aren't independant ratings, but Syed did it to split things up. How does understanding this simple fact make ANYONE a fanboy? Syed said only a fanboy could think the GCN deserves a 2 (meaning PS2 deserves a 1, meaning the GCN would be about twice as good as the PS2 with RPGs), and I agree with him. The PS2 has a staggering advantage over the GCN right now, and probably will throughout the duration of both systems.

I don't think Syed is being unfair, and I definitely don't think he's a fanboy of any system. A 0 might not be exaggerated, but he still had reason for doing it. A 1.5 or 2 would be ridiculous.

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

Yeah, yeah... whatever you say... this thread indeed has grown to be something really boring, have it the way you want, at this point not even you care about it... at least I don't care about it...

[Exophase]

Yeah, it's boring... still, let's get straight what we mean about everything, eh? ;p

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

I don't recall saying anything negative about you (yet... heh, kidding) so I don't see the point of your coment... if you say it for Syed... well, he called me a fanboy (not in this thread) and I didn't go nuts over it...

[Exophase]

Uh... what about my comment? Going nuts eh.. heh....

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Sorry Shiori. I will give this thread a wide berth when drinking in the future.

Exophase, I think I over-reacted but I was right at the core. GameCube has some pretty good RPGs coming out for it, and nothing you can say is going to change that.

[Exophase]

Ninja, PS2 is raping GCN when it comes to RPGs, and nothing you can say is going to change that. And that, as they say, is that.

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

I never said that the PS2 didn't have more RPGs. I just said that the GameCube didn't deserve a zero, as there are some very good RPGs coming out for it.

[Exophase]

And I never said it deserved 0 either, in fact for the little score sheet thing I said it deserved .5. Yes, there's one or two RPGs coming out for it that probably won't suck; we don't know if they're very good yet because they aren't out yet. Unlike GCN PS2 has RPGs that are out that we know are very good. But giving GCN the benefit of the doubt and saying that FF:CC and the Tales game will both be really good, that's still next to nothing compared to PS2, and thus why I think PS2 deserves a 2.5 while GCN deserves a .5. But cheer up, at least I'm placing GCN above XBox...

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Well, I give Xenosaga and Dragon Quest VIII the benefit of the doubt. Why can't I give Tales of Phantasia and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles the benefit of the doubt?

I think GameCube deserves 1, and the PS2 deserves 2.

[Exophase]

GCN deserves .8, PS2 deserves 2.2. That's my final offer :p

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

How about 0.9 to 2.1? :p

[Kaiser Sigma]

Actually I don't see why you don't give the PS2 a 3... for now it's the king of RPGs... but most of that score is based on upcoming RPGs (Xenosaga, FFX-2, etc)... we give them the benefit of doubt, why not giving it to the GC RPGs ?

[Exophase]

Um, if you want to go by released RPGs PS2 already has that by a staggering longshot. FFX, Suikoden 3, Wild Arms 3, Legaia 2, Shadow Hearts, Grandia 2, and some others.

EDIT: Personally, I think you're just being difficult, Kaiser. It's not simply "benefit of the doubt" when you're talking about games that are already released in Japan (Xenosaga), and games that we have received a tremendous amount of information on (FFX-2). Another deciding factor is how well direct predecessors have done (such as in Star Ocean 2). With the GCN games we have the Tales game which we know very little about and just have some screenshots (which IMO don't look that great, I think it should have stayed 2D like the rest of the series if they're gonna like look that), and FF:CC which we know isn't going to be like a conventional FF game, so we don't have that much to bank on. Skies of Arcadia I guess you could say is a sure thing, but it has definite points against it because it's a port. Beyond that PS2 has many MORE upcoming RPGs so if we're giving both exactly equal benefit of the doubt (which isn't fair, but why not?) then PS2 would win in sheer quantity because having several more games when all games are completely equal in value means it wins. And with the number of RPGs PS2 has out and upcoming it wouldn't even be a question at all.

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

And now I'm being "difficult"... *nods head* whatever, have it your way guys, I'm damn bored, and staying here to listen nonsense about myself is pointless... better go to play something, more productive in the end... keep having your arguments on your endless thread...

[Exophase]

Way to go, duck out after realizing you have NO argument and tell us we're talking nonsense... you know how stupid it looks for you to sit here, after responding for SIXTY TWO PAGES, and suddenly have some kind of enlightenment about how you're better than us? I think I see what Ninja was saying about you :|

- Exo

[Syed Fawad]

Holy mama. THere is a whole fight goin on here. Let me jump into the mix:

*wheeeeeeee*


This is how I gave the marks. Look, let us suppose GC has 5 RPGs. PS2 has an equal number of equally great RPGs. So PS22's lineup will become 5 less and GC's as well. If the total number of RPGs on PS2 is 10, then the final ratio will be 0:5. This is why GC gets ZERO and PS2 gets all.

[Ninjaa]

That doesn't seem right to me... For example, you gave marks to PS2 and Xbox for Survival Horror because PS2 has SH2 and 3. You can deduct two games from GameCube, and it doesn't even scratch the GCN lineup.

Kaiser, Exophase, Ninja, let's cool it down a little shall we? Everyone loses if the thread is closed, and we have carried this fight for 62 pages without having a scrap serious enough to warrant closure. Let's try to regain our tempers shall we?

Oh, and by the way, here's a link that I think you should check out to see what there is on GameCube in the RPG department. It's another forum, but the info is pretty good for the most part.

http://pub89.ezboard.com/fpgcforumsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=9458.topic

[Exophase]

Are you talking to yourself again Ninja? Freak :D Well you know, I basically feel Kaiser should quit screwing around, if he really thinks this is a big waste of time and everything I say is ridiculous and whatever (read: he got involved in something he had no clue about and is too proud to admit it) then he needs to stop posting in this thread...

Heh, does anyone get this funny feeling when posting here now? Like you're roaming a vast wasteland with only a few people alive... weird.

- Exo

EDIT: Waah.. typos..

[Ninjaa]

Heh. I know that just as much to blame, if not more than you guys if this thread is closed. As for Kaiser, just deal with him calmly. It's difficult at times, but he's a pretty good guy deep down.

And yes, these forums are totally nuked. Nobody here but us scavengers. ;) This thread is the worst though.

[Exophase]

Wow Ninja that guy on that thread is like you * 10000000 when it comes to being a Nintendo fanboy! I love it, Ogre Battle series, that hasn't even been announced.. Parasite Eve remake, ditto, Xenosaga port? Hah, bloody likely. Man, this is the biggest load of tripe I've heard in a while, "third parties suck, we should only care about Nintendo", ahahah... people like this make me more appreciative of the reasonable fanboys, as few as there are...

Anyway, I'm sorry to say that that thread doesn't change my mind about anything, I can't speak for anyone else though. Many of the games they talk about are nothing but rumors or baseless speculation, and some of them are extremely unlikely to happen. Others aren't exclusive to GCN, for instance Gladius and Summoner 2 (which I heard nothing about whatsoever); some of them are probably not even going to be remotely RPGs (like "Phantasy Star Online card battles")

Next time you'd like to use a thread for reference I'd appreciate it if you didn't take it from such a biased source, who are naturally overoptimistic and name several things which are far from confirmed....

- Exo

EDIT: More typoes. :( :( :(

[Ninjaa]

Heh. Well it's nice to see that you recognize that I could be a LOT more biased than I am. ;)

But regardless of the commentary, many of the games that they mentioned are real, and some of the rumored ones will come to pass, I guarantee it. They may be rumors, but they are reliable rumors. (Not all, but some are.)

I don't remember much about Gladius, but the name is familiar. Summoner 2 is officially confirmed for GameCube. My interest in it is about zip though.

I just posted the thread to show that there are some good confirmed RPGs, and several big rumors afloat. I don't expect you to take it at face value, but I knew that if I posted anything like that, my ass would be bleeding for days. ;)

[Syed Fawad]

About the survival horror part. We've got RE remake and RE0 and RE4. Not to forget Eternal Darkness.

Compare that to SH2 and SH3. GC leads by two games. Got 2 out of 3 points.

As for RPGs. List ALL the GC RPGS Ninja. And list all the PS2 RPGs. PS2 will lead by more than 5-7 games. It doesn't deserve 3. Why?

[Carnage]

So if the ps2 has 5-7 crappy,sucky,rpgs more, then he scores better:confused:

[Ninjaa]

Yeah, that's kind of what I figured too... Ah well, what can you do. :D (Can't wait for Exo to come in and tell me I am a fanboy who refuses to accept that the PS2's RPGs are by definition better than GCN RPGs. ;))

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Carnage
So if the ps2 has 5-7 crappy,sucky,rpgs more, then he scores better:confused:

First of all I want to state that I said that assuming the quality factor to be constant.

Secondly, Willl you call these crappy Sucky?


Suikoden3
Wild arms3
Star Ocean 3
etc

[Carnage]

those are 3 good games...but how am I supposed to know that those are the games I am talking about???Besides,it was just a tought...I'l only confirm it when I see the complete lists of all the systems rpg's

edit:I also forgot to put the "if" in big letters

[Syed Fawad]

Great idea Carnage. A one to one game wise comparision in the RPG department would do the job. But when it comes to RPGs, you've gotta waite till Exo shows up cause I have a very distinctive taste of RPGs, and usually miss out a few. Anyway, here are a few GOOD RPGs that I am aware of:

FFX
FFX-2
Suikoden3
Wild Arms3
Kingdom Hearts
Legaia2
Star Ocean3
BoF5
Dragon Quest8
Xenosaga
Shadow Hearts
Tales of Destiny2


Others about which I am not sure:

.Hack infection
Unlimited Saga
Summoner1
Summoner2
Jade Coconut (is it right?)
Dual Hearts
Baldur's gate

[Carnage]

I think Jade coconut is supposed to be Jade Cocoon,I played this game for a while,it amused me but not much,summoner1 is also pritty good,exept for the fact that its kinda based at summoning(d'uh)and after a while it gets boring,summoner2 I haven't played yet but it seems to be boring to(SEEMS),Baldur's gate is a good game but not my type of rpg,DualHaerts,Hack infection and Unlimited Saga I have to play yet.

edit:and unless there is a jade cocoon2,its for psx

[Syed Fawad]

Yup I cinfirmed it from IGN. It is Jade Cacoon2 and not Jade coconut :D:D:D:D

BTW:

I Love Love.
I Hate hate. ;)

[Carnage]

/I Love Love.I Hate hate. /
:nono: ,anyway I'm gonna check on some info about Jade Cocoon2

edit:checked a quick info on IGN,and as i tought,breeding,breeding,breeding and more breeding...the same thing as last time,only more combinations now,the story isn't great,a and they say that its very repitive...here's a quote from IGN:Jade Cocoon 2 is one of the best looking games of 2001.
now look at the year,no,not a missprint,they mean that the graph.arent really fantastic...

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Way to go, duck out after realizing you have NO argument and tell us we're talking nonsense... (...)

Boy you are really in a bad mood aren't you ? I never said you were talking nonsense I said I was tired that's all... stop being chased by anyone...

> Well you know, I basically feel Kaiser should quit screwing around, if he really thinks this is a big waste of time and everything I say is ridiculous and whatever (read: he got involved in something he had no clue about and is too proud to admit it) then he needs to stop posting in this thread...

Two posts are all what it takes to "screw around" ?... whatever... as for "not having any idea"... congrats, you pissed me enough to do some research... check out any post of mine tonight or tomorrow...

> Heh. I know that just as much to blame, if not more than you guys if this thread is closed. As for Kaiser, just deal with him calmly. It's difficult at times, but he's a pretty good guy deep down.

"Deal with me calmly" ? Who the hell do you think you are ppl ? You are as "difficult" as me all the time... Exophase your behavior some times sucks, you get mad at Ninja and your way of expressing it is saying "You have your head on your a**"... quite reasonable aren't you ? Ninja... well I think I've said enough to you in posts and pms...
As for being good... you don't know me, you can't cast an opinion...

> So if the ps2 has 5-7 crappy,sucky,rpgs more, then he scores better

You know, I was trying to say that (IMO I think I said that) and I was labeled as "difficult"...but good point Carnage, I hope you do it better than me...

[Kaiser Sigma]

Ok... so far the RPGs for the GC in the US are quite few (specially if you take out the ones that are ports), as for the japanese market I'd have to check out... as for the rumors... well, Ninja knows better than me, so I suppose if any of them becomes truth he will be the first to tell...
On a second though 2 is too much for the GC, but 0 is too low... it's just my opinion... some of the RPGs out there (BG, PSO) are quite good... and hopefully we can say the same thing about the upcoming ones...

> Others about which I am not sure:

(...)
Baldur's gate

Is there going to be a new BG for the PS2 ? Any info on it ? (Oh, and please, I'm not doubting you... I'm asking out of interest, I love the BG saga)

Oh... and some things I missed on my previous post :

> and suddenly have some kind of enlightenment about how you're better than us?

I'm arrogant, not a superb person, I don't consider myself to be better nor worse than you...

> Way to go, duck out after realizing you have NO argument and tell us we're talking nonsense

Get a pair of glasses, I said "nonsense about me"... I don't think it's that dificult to understand... as I said above stop the chase...

> I think I see what Ninja was saying about you :|

Ninja called me an hypocrite, I dared him to show proof of it, and he said that he'll let it go... show proof of it, and we will discuss, basing your concept of me on the one that Ninja has about me is quite... mistaken...

[Carnage]

Kaiser,if people think you are difficult or whatever,thats their problem,you are who you are,no matter how much they keep offending you,and I hope that they will realise that,so would you now all get back on the ****ing topic,and il search for some info of a new BG;) But I'm pritty sure there will be a next one

[Exophase]

Originally posted by Carnage
Kaiser,if people think you are difficult or whatever,thats their problem,you are who you are,no matter how much they keep offending you,and I hope that they will realise that,so would you now all get back on the ****ing topic,and il search for some info of a new BG;) But I'm pritty sure there will be a next one

Um, JOOC, why are you jumping in and picking sides Carnage? He's been offending me probably as much as I've been offending him, so I don't really see what business you have posting this...

- Exo

[Exophase]

Anyway. Kaiser said that there were a lot of US RPGs for GCN but didn't list them. The two you listed were BG and PSO, neither are GCN exclusive (which until now I assumed we were dealing with) and neither are classic console RPGs (which I also assumed we were dealing with because otherwise XBox deserves far more points than it's getting).

I'm still staying by my last numbers, GCN .8, PS2 2.2, but if you throw in PC style RPGs we've got something else on our hands.

If you really want to research fairly, you have to look at both sides evenly. I've only been looking at NEUTRAL sites which have lists for both consoles.

- Exo

EDIT: Stuff.

[Kaiser Sigma]

I said there were upcoming titles, if I say there were a lot of titles out there already, then my mistake, I witdraw it... therefore that's why I dropped to saying that it deserves a 1.
PSO is not an exclusive title, yes, but still hasn't been released on the XBOX so for now IT'S exclusive to the GC. Splinter Cell will be released for the rest of the systems but for now it's XBOX exclusive
BG Dark Alliance (a port of the PS2 game) ISN'T like the PC BG... though I grant you that it isn't a conventional Console RPG... in that case, I suppose you don't count it for the PS2, as the game is the same... since Syed counted the next BG for the PS2 I don't see why I can't count this one.

RPG already out for the GC ?
* Evolution Worlds... I dunno if it's a good or bad game, I hated the first one and I liked the second one (both for the DC). This one features both chapters, if they fixed some of the mistakes that the game had it won't be the greatest of RPGs but it won't be the worst one either...
* PSO episode I&II, I've said it above, it'll be out for the XBOX but still isn't. Good dungeon Crawler type RPG, not the best, but good enough.
* Animal Crossing : I dunno about the game, it looked awful to me, but a look can deceive. I don't think it's a RPG but most sites put it in that category.
* Lost Kingdoms.
* Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance.

Out of the "already out" titles, only 2 are new ones, I grant you that, but still they are RPGs. They'll keep the RPG gamers entertained a bit since the strong RPGs come out.

Upcoming ones :
* FF CC.
* The new 'Tales' game.
* Rune II.
* Skies of Arcadia Legends (yeah, a port, but since a lot of ppl didn't play the original one, it's not a total waste... though a port in the end...).
* Summoner: The Prophecy.
* Dungeon & Dragons Heroes.
* Lost Kingdoms II.
* Gold Star Mountain.

There are some upcoming ones, though I can't say wether they are good or not... time will tell...

> (...) (which I also assumed we were dealing with because otherwise XBox deserves far more points than it's getting).

That's another issue, the concept of RPG has expanded a lot since the times of FF and CT on the Snes. IMO the XBOX also deserves a bit more than 0... I can't recall any RPGs for it other than (the upcoming) PSO and (the released) Shenmue IIx... Shenmue's style is debatable but wheter we like it or not it's the closest thing to a RPG in some aspects...

> I'm still staying by my last numbers, GCN .8, PS2 2.2, but if you throw in PC style RPGs we've got something else on our hands.

PC style's RPG ? As I said BG:DA is nowhere close to the ones on PC... yet, is different... but as far as I think, I'm pretty sure that Syed counted that for the score of the PS2, as he did on a thread long ago...
IMO the PS2 deserves the 3, for now. It's clearly the machine with the most and better RPGs... I don't see why give it a 2.2, since I can't recall a flaw on its RPGs lineup...

Anyway, Carnage sorry for straying of the topic... sometimes it can't be helped... as for the new BG, don't worry, I'll look about it when I have the time... thanks anyway.

My last off topic thing for the rest of the day (I promise) :

> (...) He's been offending me probably as much as I've been offending him, so I don't really see what business you have posting this...

Examples of me offending you on this thread ? So far the only harsh thing that I can recall is saying that your behavior sometimes sucks, but that was in response to you calling me "difficult"...

[Exophase]

Erm.. Kaiser, I think I see something I didn't see before and explaining this will clear things up a lot I think. See, the way the scoring system works isn't that each console gets a 0-3 rating ranking them, but rather they share 3 points. It's basically saying how the titles are distributed among the 3 systems. That's why Syed thought it was crazy for you to give GCN a 1.5 or 2 for RPGs because that'd also mean 1.5 or 1 for RPGs for PS2 (assuming XBox remains at 0). Also it means if you give PS2 a 3 the rest must have 0. I hope this clears some stuff up....

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

I see... my mistake then... but with no intention of being offensive, it ends up to be quite an unfair system...

[Exophase]

I guess it depends how you look at it. Giving them all a 0-3 rating I would give PS2 a 3, GCN a 1.5, and XBox a 1. Would you agree?

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Okay, here's a more or less complete list of announced games. I have misgivings about posting this however, as Nintendo has got to be the most secretive corporation ever, and has a tendency to hide their games for much of their development life. For example, Nintendo has 2 2nd parties that we know are making GameCube RPGs, but no names have been given. (Speculation is currently Golden Sun GCN and Pokemon GCN).

Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II
Evolution Worlds
Lost Kingdoms
Lost Kingdoms II
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Giftpia
Summoner: The Prophecy
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
Tales of Phantasia GCN
Virtua Fighter Quest
Gold Star Mountain
Times of Trouble
Dokapon DX

[Exophase]

Speaking of secretivity... I'm kinda confused about this whole Megaton thing, exactly what was that about Ninja?

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

> I guess it depends how you look at it. Giving them all a 0-3 rating I would give PS2 a 3, GCN a 1.5, and XBox a 1. Would you agree?

Don't misunderstand me, I think it's unfair because we are analyzing quantity... since when quantity matters ? XBOX doesn't feature much RPGs... suppose that tomorrow they launch 20 new RPGs they are all crap but according to this system the XBOX will get a 3.
IMO it's stupid, what matters is quality... but maybe it's just me...
As for your score, I'd say that a 1 for the GC is more than perfect...

[Exophase]

Since when were we analyzing quantity? PS2 not only has more RPG's but it has more GOOD RPG's too...

- Exo