PS2 vs GameCube vs XBox

[_E_]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad

Ok now let us try to see that which genres seem best on whic of the three consoles. This will make the thread go in a right direction.

mm,..so far, the PS2 is the king of RPGs. GC is the best platformer console and has a bit of everything. Xbox? I dunno, Mostly sports ( I think) :confused:

[Kaiser Sigma]

PS2 is strongest on RPGs but also on other genres as well, Deus Ex comes to mind... GC has great platform games but also some other good stuff, RE 0 (and the upcoming ones comes to mind) as well as ED... the XXXBOX... well, so far it has 4 or 5 good titles, and the upcoming ones are basically the same (just 4 or 5 good titles)... but we will see... the battle has just begun...

[Moayed]

i voted for ps2,as it is obviously better then others.

[Ninjaa]

I would give wrestling and racing to the PS2 at the moment as well.

Nintendo is ruling in Adventure, Platformer, and Survival Horror. It's holding its own in most other categories. I don't know if you could give the others to either console.

[zerocopy]

I've always been a playstation fanboy, but i always routed for the underdogs thats why im voting for the gamecube. Things seem to be looking good for the GC , it's on my holiday wish list this coming dec.

[Exophase]

I looked at Best Buy the other day while buying Suikoden 3, and noticed that a lot of the "common" PS2 games have hit $20. Likewise, there are some great deals on XBox games too, as far as the game prices go, although I didn't notice as many big titles at low prices, there were a number of $20 games as well. GCN, on the other hand.. the system itself is $50 cheaper, but other than that there were only a couple low profile games that hit $20, a couple more at $30, and most of the big name titles were at $40 or $50. For PS2 the new titles were at $40 or $50, but a lot of the not very old well selling titles like Devil May Cry were at $20. I was a bit surprised by this. For GBA games, it appeared most of the new games were $30, a few of the older (and less popular games) were at $20. Interestingly I saw a couple cross platform games that were $20 on PS2 and $30 on GCN...

It seems right now that while GCN is the cheapest of the three consoles, PS2 has the best game deals. It's really nice to see that the console's games quickly turn over to "greatest hits" and sell for $20 (even if some of the games under "greatest hits" probably were never even close to being hits). Likewise, most PSX games were $15-$20, some very good ones at that, and some pretty good ones were even $10. Overall prices have gone down a LOT since the SNES/Genesis era. I remember when seeing a new game for $70-$80 was not uncommon, and then there was PS4, the $100 behemoth.

- Exo

[Syed Fawad]

Hehe, nice to see that we are finally back on topic.


I would give wrestling and racing to the PS2 at the moment as well.

Nintendo is ruling in Adventure, Platformer, and Survival Horror. It's holding its own in most other categories. I don't know if you could give the others to either console.


Hey! I agree with ya ;)

BTW you missed RPGs and fighting and car combat in the PS2 genres.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Also let's note that the PS2 features some bundles while the GC features only one (though I'm not sure if it exists in america)...

[Ninjaa]

YAY! On topic at last!

I said "as well", implying that someone else had already said RPGs. ;)

Fighting.... I don't know. I guess I will give it to you, as GameCube only really has SSBM to call its own right now, but it's a slim victory. (Is Bloody Roar: Primal Fury on PS2?)

Car Combat, well, as we haven't seen Mario Kart yet, and Donkey Kong Racing seems to be a no-show for a while since Rare left, I will let you have that one.

But I will take puzzle games for GameCube. ;)

EDIT: Kaiser, you can currently get a big discount if you get Mario Sunshine or Metroid Prime with a GameCube console.

[Kaiser Sigma]

EDIT: Kaiser, you can currently get a big discount if you get Mario Sunshine or Metroid Prime with a GameCube console.

Yeah I know, but it isn't the same as a bundle... nothing beats a good package with 1/2 gamepads, a memory card and a great title (I can't name one since I don't recall any PS2 bundle at the moment)...

[Ninjaa]

There is actually a Mario Sunshine bundle in Canada/US, but you just get like $25 USD off if you buy Metroid Prime with a console at certain stores.

Interestingly enough, Toys R Us gave me a $10 gift certificate for a large pizza when I bought Resident Evil 0 and Metroid Prime. I have no idea what that was about, but I found it in the bag the other day along with the reciept. :D

[Kaiser Sigma]

The Mario Sunshine Bundle is also avaible in EU... it's quite good since it features 2 gamepads and a memory card...

[Ryos]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
heheh, my mistake... Anyway, there's also this nasty rumor about Shenmue III going XXXBOX-clusive (and this one totally exclusive)... That's possible. Shenmue II sort of was (if you ignore the fact it was kind of released on the DC). It's something in favor of Xbox...assuming you like Shenmue, of course. :p

[Agent006]

I like GC and ps2 but I think that Microsoft will buy up all the good game developers (like Rare) and sink both ps2 and GC in the long run.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Agent006
I like GC and ps2 but I think that Microsoft will buy up all the good game developers (like Rare) and sink both ps2 and GC in the long run.

I dont think Nintendo or Sony are getting sunk anytime Soon, as long as nintendo has a monopoly on the hand held market, There's no chance of that ever happening.

Sony has other revenues besides Gaming, And of course microsoft does as well.

Microsoft reported a HUGE financial gain from the windows Operating System and office software, with a profit of like 805 Million Dollars this year alone. Microsoft has enough money from its Windows market to feed its losses in the xbox market for a long time expecially if they keep generating profits of such insane margins as the sheer revenue they make from Microsoft Windows is more than enough to cover any losses they have,

[Shadow Warrior]

gamecube should win

[Kaiser Sigma]

The Gamecube features a great line up of games... but to catch up with the PS2 it will need a greater one...

[_E_]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
The Gamecube features a great line up of games... but to catch up with the PS2 it will need a greater one...

and more companies supporting the GC with good quality products too. So far , 90% of GC games are done by Nintendo itself.....

[Ninjaa]

Eh? And here I've been complaining because there aren't enough 1st party games... :D. Seriously, most of the games I want are either 2nd or 3rd party games.

[Kaiser Sigma]

True, Nintendo features great games but most of the games are from 2nd or 3rd party companies (ex : the RE series, ED, just to name a few)...

[Kane]

I think Star Fox dventures sucks. The continual 'fetch this' combined with the minimal amount of actual battles amde it seem really dull to me.

[Ninjaa]

Yeah, I didn't really think much of it either. It was an ok game, but nothing special.

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Ninja
Yeah, I didn't really think much of it either. It was an ok game, but nothing special.

and it had the best graphics on gc.........

[Kane]

Graphics aren't everything.
I also played a little 'Agent Under Fire' and I was a bit annoyed tht I couldn't use the C stick to move and the analog stick to look. Other than that it was OK I guess. Not spectacular, but playable.
Bloody Roar: Primal Fury looks nice, but IMO it can't hold a candle to any of my favorite fighting games.
Sonic Adventure 2: I much preferred the original on the DC. It's OK, but once ain, not spectacular.
Super Monkey Ball: Decided to give it another go, but I'm just not a puzzle game fan.

[Ninjaa]

I thought Bloody Roar kicked butt. I played it non stop with a friend for like 2 days. At the end, my thumb was actually bruised, but we both ruled at the game. ;)

And yes Syed, graphics aren't everything. We've been through this before. (But it's been totally wasted by Metroid Prime in this department anyway)

[Ph33r Viper]

I Think the PS2 Is the Best of of the 3 of them but configuration matters say the XBOX is 5-10% better than the PS2.

The PS2 Would Be the Most popular sytem around but awiat for the Playstation 3.

I bet the PS3 Will Be the Best Console in the World when it comes out in 2006.

Ph33r Viper:)

[Kane]

>I Think the PS2 Is the Best of of the 3 of them but configuration matters say the XBOX is 5-10% better than the PS2

The X-Box is considerably more powerful than the PS2, not just 5-10%, but it's games not specs that sell consoles.

>I bet the PS3 Will Be the Best Console in the World when it comes out in 2006.

2006. That's 3 or more years away. No one can predict what's gonnahappen between now and then.

[Ph33r Viper]

Originally posted by Kane


2006. That's 3 or more years away. No one can predict what's gonnahappen between now and then. [/B]

I Know Kane but one thing it might be 2007 or 2008 maybe.

Just have to wait and see.

Ph33r Viper

[Agent006]

I agree, I don't like Star Fox Adevntures and I also think Mario Sunshine is "not enough." The music stinks and it's not a quantum leap over Mario 64 like every other Mario game.

Metroid Prime is only one player, they should have had a two player deathmatch mode.

[Alias]

Originally posted by Agent006
I agree, I don't like Star Fox Adevntures and I also think Mario Sunshine is "not enough." The music stinks and it's not a quantum leap over Mario 64 like every other Mario game.

Metroid Prime is only one player, they should have had a two player deathmatch mode.

Metroid Prime wasn't designed to be a standard FPS in that regard, it was supposed to be and adventure game that revives the classic game style of previous metroid games while bringing the series into the 3D realm. If you ask me, making the game like a standard FPS will cheapen the experience (playing deathmatching only for cheap quick thrills).

[Ryos]

> The X-Box is considerably more powerful than the PS2, not just 5-10%, but it's games not specs that sell consoles.

Not always. I was in a store when I heard someone put back a PS2 for an Xbox because the Xbox has "better graphics." That doesn't strike me as a particularly game-oriented point of view.

[shinji^]

The Xbox often has some slowdowns in many games; however on the PS2, not even MGS2 had slowdowns. But, in my opinion, every new generation console is good, just not in all matters.

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Ryos
> The X-Box is considerably more powerful than the PS2, not just 5-10%, but it's games not specs that sell consoles.

Not always. I was in a store when I heard someone put back a PS2 for an Xbox because the Xbox has "better graphics." That doesn't strike me as a particularly game-oriented point of view.

That strikes me as a stupid point of view actually.

[Napro]

i gotta say ps2 because its got the only good gamez (final fantasy)

[Ninjaa]

lol. jegHegy's got the perfect movie for you.

And btw, PS2 isn't the only system with Final Fantasy. ;) GBA and GCN also have Final Fantasy games.

[_E_]

Actually, I think its safe to describe all Xbox users to be " graphically" contended gamers. Meaning that if they were given a game with good graphics, they ll get it, even if the game lacks a good story or characters......( personal opinion)

[Ninjaa]

The thing that I find interesting about that is that nobody has proven the Xbox superior in graphics to the GameCube yet. It's jsut commonly assumed. Yet the games speak a tale of themselves. There isn't an Xbox game which looks better than Metroid Prime for example.

[N1ghtw0lf]

I was never fond of X Box in any features...PS2 had best games (IMO) and cheapest...GC had my favorite controller and some instant classics (mario sunshine for example) but x box had a bulky controller, definately not mobile, and everything is so ****ing expensive...the only upside is that Toe Jam and Earl 3 is coming out on it

[Ryos]

Originally posted by Ninja
That strikes me as a stupid point of view actually. It is. Then again, it's also a common point of view. So one could say it's a stupid common point of view.

[Quatro]

>And btw, PS2 isn't the only system with Final Fantasy. GBA and GCN also have Final Fantasy games.

hey I don't know this... is it similar to the FF in PS2???

[PussInBoots]

Originally posted by Gamer1

side note: 3 hrs, playing into mario sunshine, i just had to drop/ letgo my gamecube controller. and get the psx to gc conveter. i can't stand the button layout.


I can't believe other companies are still dumb enough to try to come up with new controller designs. The PSX controller is about as good as it's probably going to get for the human hands for comfort/accessability, and you really don't need more buttons or it'd get confusing and unfamiliar ^_^

Unfortunately FPS/RTS require mouse style pointing which just doesn't work without a mouse =\

[PussInBoots]

Originally posted by Alias


Metroid Prime wasn't designed to be a standard FPS in that regard, it was supposed to be and adventure game that revives the classic game style of previous metroid games while bringing the series into the 3D realm. If you ask me, making the game like a standard FPS will cheapen the experience (playing deathmatching only for cheap quick thrills).

Which is exactly what castlevania needs, the GBA SOTN style games are great but they can't stay in platform style forever =\ What were the N64 Castlevania games like?

Basically there needs to be a Castlevania Prime, since the GBA games and SOTN are at the core Metroid clones ^_^

[Ninjaa]

Pussinboots, there is an edit button in the lower right. Feel free to use it.

Castlevania wouldn't work well as an FPA I don't think. Metroid Prime was made from a 1st person view to get around the difficulties associated with the 3D environment without detracting from the core gameplay. The visor modes are really what make it work.

And I hardly think that the PSX controller is the ultimate controller. The GameCube controller is proof of that. For every person too rigid to adapt to a new design, there are just as many, if not more who love the controller. At any rate, I wouldn't call a company that innovates to be dumb. If it weren't for Nintendo, you wouldn't have rumble or analog sticks on your dual shocks.

[Hanamichi]

So far, I like the PSX controller the most. But its probably because its the controller I used the most.
I voted late, real late, for the Gamecube. Strange, but I like the GameCube more than I do the PS2, although I only own a PS2 for the meanwhile. Probably because the GameCube has more "classic" and solid games, while the PS2 is loaded with a ton of crap these days.

[Kid A]

Bleh it just depends on each person. Do you sleep on your back or on your side? On your left side or on your right side? Facing up or down? Let's not argue on controllers, please :eek:

BTW IMO the PS controller is the best one ^^'"

[N1ghtw0lf]

So far, I like the PSX controller the most. But its probably because its the controller I used the most.


Bleh it just depends on each person. Do you sleep on your back or on your side? On your left side or on your right side? Facing up or down? Let's not argue on controllers, please

Probably also depends on the game... some game sa jump button is in a unfamiliar spot because your used to other controllers...and gamecube controllers are also for smaller hands...my friend was tryin to figure how to get his hands in there

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by N1ghtw0lf
Probably also depends on the game... some game sa jump button is in a unfamiliar spot because your used to other controllers...

True. Very true. I always had problems in playing Tony Hawk on PSX as I learned to play on N64. There are other examples here and there, but that's a very good point.

Originally posted by N1ghtw0lf
and gamecube controllers are also for smaller hands...my friend was tryin to figure how to get his hands in there

I have a GameCube controller, and a dual shock sitting here side by side, and the GameCube controller is clearly bigger, but not by much. I don't see how your point really holds that much water. I actually have VERY small hands, and I have troubles with the PSX controller being too small for me.

[Gamer1]

All controllers are basically personal preferences of the people that created it. Just look and ask around. alot would say that they love the Xbox controller.


If megaman (games based on the original, and/or x series) ever comes back to nintendo. I would just feel horrible trying to play it on the gamecube. it would remind me too much of playing Megaman X4 on the saturn...

[N1ghtw0lf]

it is on peoples preference...not on anyone saying its the best...just guess its whatever YOU feel comfortable with

[Ninjaa]

Does it strike any of you as funny that the Xbox is composed of the 3 great evils of the PC world? Think about it for a sec. Nvidia, Microsoft, and Intel. Each of them well known for underhanded tactics, monopolistic tendencies. It's like when they were designing it they were like... "you know? I don't think this is quite evil enough. Let's give nvidia a call." I swear, I don't even want to know where they got the silicon from. Probably from some dead vampire with implants.

[Drack]

Originally posted by Ninja
Does it strike any of you as funny that the Xbox is composed of the 3 great evils of the PC world? Think about it for a sec. Nvidia, Microsoft, and Intel. Each of them well known for underhanded tactics, monopolistic tendencies. It's like when they were designing it they were like... "you know? I don't think this is quite evil enough. Let's give nvidia a call." I swear, I don't even want to know where they got the silicon from. Probably from some dead vampire with implants.

The three great evils of the world, where is Sony? IMO sony it pretty bad. I don't think companies WANT to be bad, they just want to make a few bucks thats all. Nintendo is exactly the same way, did'nt they have some problem about a month ago about resellers, I can't remember the details though.

[Ninjaa]

Europe was suing them a couple months ago for deliberately creating supply shortages in Europe in the old days. Nintendo is appealing it though, as they presented the information willingly, and they stopped the practice on their own. I think they have a good chance of winning. I don't know about resellers.

MS is different though, as they just proved they can do whatever they like without reprisal from the legal system.

[Kraiger Drago]

IMHO, the N64 controller was the best one; I really wish they would make one for the GC. Speaking of which, anyone gotten their hands on a Wavebird yet? If so, how does it play?

MS is different though, as they just proved they can do whatever they like without reprisal from the legal system.
And what particular incident would you be referring too? The Anti-Trust thing? or something else?

[Ninjaa]

Kraiger, yes I was referring to their recent anti-trust suit.

I liked the N64 as well. It seemed perfectly adapted to many different types of games, most especially fps and adventure games. I had a little trouble using the C Stick rather than the C buttons on the N64, but I got used to it fairly easily. Mind you we are probably the only people who liked the N64 controller. :D

As for the Wavebird, when I bought my second controller, I was thinking of a wavebird, but I figured I would rather have rumble than a missing cord. ;)

[Carnage]

I also loooooooooooooove the n64 controller:) ,I still remeber the days when me and my best friend where playing BuckBumble and mariokart,ssb and some futuristic race game wich i forgot the name of on every wensday:drool: for some reason,those things gave me a magic feeling i could never forget...anyway,It just doesn't feel so magic anymore when you play with a xbox,I'ts like playing dvd's on your pc(for me,playing a dvd on my pc just isn't the same as with a dvd player)

[Moayed]

the n64 is ok but the ps2 still is the best.

[shinji^]

Yeah, I think that PS2 is the best console now. But I don't say that this can't change:)

[N1ghtw0lf]

The three great evils of the world, where is Sony? IMO sony it pretty bad. I don't think companies WANT to be bad, they just want to make a few bucks thats all. Nintendo is exactly the same way, did'nt they have some problem about a month ago about resellers, I can't remember the details though.

No company is as bad as microsoft...somehow they have this obsessive dracula effect on people...all the woman hate dracula but they are some how atracted to him. Microsoft has the same effect on the public because of their unreliability and their monopoly that they want you to pay 300 dollars just to change the look of your computer and make it run a tid bit faster...Microsoft is so damn expensive but everyone belives because its everywhere its good and because of this they make sales with everyhting they come out with...

MICROSOFT IS THE DEVIL!

[shinji^]

Microsoft ha unleashed an unspeakable evil on us called WINDOWS. So it began with the Macintosh, whereas Microsoft (It wasn't Microsoft then I think, but no matter) stole the plans of Macintosh, and used them. So they made WINDOWS. WINDOWS suddenly became more popular, and it was used wider than Macintosh. So all of the important programs were/are written on Windows, and so they pushed us into a circle of the devil...

[Kaiser Sigma]

Windows evil ? yeah, but if ppl really want a new OS then they should stop complaining and bring it on... it's easy to criticize, but hard to do something, isn't it ?

[Ninjaa]

Kaiser, it's hard to bring on a new OS, when most software is still programmed solely for Windows. I use Linux a little, but the compatability isn't great enough for me to switch over. This is beginning to change though. Windows wrappers are emerging, and some games are even being brought to Linux, such as Unreal Tournament 2k3, and some popular emulators such as ePSXe or ZSNES.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Exactly, but if ppl feel THAT uncomfortable they should do something regarding that issue... they shouldn't complain...

[Exophase]

Windows is so evil, it burned my house down and ran over my cat! I will still use this OS, but rest assured, I won't be happy about it, no sir!

It's an OS. It runs your programs. I don't think it really constitutes as much of an "evil entity", so just get over it.

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

awww... And here I thought you were a believer...

[Syed Fawad]

WTH? Discussion OS's again? argh.....

Let's get this discussion somewhere, shall we?

Prove me wrong; XXXBOX is the worst choice among the three next gen consoles out there.

[Exophase]

Syed I liked your sig ;)

Okay, XBox not being the worst choice... well, I don't know for sure but I'm going to assume that it plays DVD's better than PS2. It doubles as a Linux server for much less than it'd cost to get Linux on a PS2, and eventually will probably be usable as a PC (and perhaps for free). Buying it gives you the pleasure of taking money away from an extremely wealthy and powerful multinational... and you could always scrap the HDD as a PC part (I think??)... doubtful about any other parts.

As you can see I don't know much about XBox games, probably because I can't exactly think of any big name RPGs on the horizon for it.

And Ninja, I dual boot Windows and Linux, do you actually boot something besides Windows? I believe in using what has the best software for the occasion, everything else is just glitter, and I don't care very much who makes what I'm using, unless I have some kind of personal grudge against them.

And MS hasn't shot my dog lately ;)

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

I have a friend who works at Walmart. (or used to). He told me that they had gotten a warning to check all returned Xbox consoles, as it was found that some of the parts could be used in a PC, and people were just taking the parts and returning the console. He said he never knew which part it was though. (He's not good with computers.)

And to answer your question, yes, I dual boot Windows XP and Mandrak 8.2.

[Quatro]

> Prove me wrong; XXXBOX is the worst choice among the three next gen consoles out there.

here we go again...here's some...

WHY IT HAS POTENTIAL:
- its the most powerful console among the three
- it is very well designed in ergo and aesthetic aspect
- net play
- quality of the games

WHY IT'S AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST:
- few games
- cost of the games
- still seeking support from major game developer
- other console are well established
- lack appeal to target market outside US

[Ninjaa]

Quatro, good points, but I am afraid I disagree with 3 of your 4 potential things.

> its the most powerful console among the three

Maybe, but no games have shown it yet.

> it is very well designed in ergo and aesthetic aspect

Almost everyone complains about the controller and the size of the console. I suppose the big ugly thing isn't THAT ugly to some people, but personally I think the PS2 is the ugliest thing I ever laid eyes on, so I guess this one isn't that bad.

> net play

I agree. For people with broadband internet access, an extra IP address or router, and are willing to shell out their monthly payment for Xbox live, It's great. Penny Arcade says nothing but good about it, and I know that neither Sony or Nintendo really have any internet plans.

> quality of the games

I am still kind of laughing about this one...

[Quatro]

> quality of the games

I am still kind of laughing about this one...

argh... wrong input... that should have been the image quality of the game... silly me

and your right ninja, teh :quality of games" are quite laughable :D

[N1ghtw0lf]

like PSX and N64, PS2, and Gamecube all have shown mprovments among graphics as the system got older..but X Box shows no sign of doing that considering Microsoft poured all their money into makeing it "powerful"...i have seen one game that looks better than any other on X Box....

[Kaiser Sigma]

Graphics isn't the most important thing... though the XXXBOX doesn't feature good games, they aren't bad because of their graphics...

[N1ghtw0lf]

I didn't mean it like that...i mean x box hasnt showed any new elements in games that the others have...no marvelous new type of gameplay or anything...games just look like they are gonna be racing and shoot em ups...but i havent liked any X box games besides Halo which i socming out for PC anyways

[Drack]

Ok, this thread has turned into a XBOX bashing frenzy. You guys need to be a bit more open minded.

[N1ghtw0lf]

This thread to discuss why one system is better than another...everyone can state their opinion wether its bashing x box or loving it...it dont really matter...its just an opinion

[_E_]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
Graphics isn't the most important thing... though the XXXBOX doesn't feature good games, they aren't bad because of their graphics...

I agree,....storyline, music and garphics are one of a whole. All these elements complete each other to make a good game.

Originally posted by N1ghtw0lf
This thread to discuss why one system is better than another...everyone can state their opinion wether its bashing x box or loving it...it dont really matter...its just an opinion

and thats why i insist in ending your sentences with IMO to avoid confusion. for god sake, is it that hard to type a 3 letter abbreviation at the end of your post ??


Back to the topic: Xbox is a console and not an OS, even if it was based on one. Xbox has many fans, but basically, most people here are RPG games and dont find anything interesting in the Xbox, but if you look in other forums, Xbox is an " action & sports" gamers paradise.

[Ninjaa]

Kingstar, just read my sig if you want to get that picky. That's my one concession to this madness. I am not going to manually type IMO at the end of my posts, as it should be immediately obvious that it's my opinion.

I would disagree about the Xbox being an action gamer's paradise though. It does have a few, but nothing really outstanding. I hear about Halo all the time, but it's just one game.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Though the game still hasn't been released I'm really dissapointed that the new installment of the Panzer Dragoon series will be avaible only for the XXXBOX... other than that ? Shenmue IIx, and the possible Shenmue III...

[Ninjaa]

I haven't played the Panzer Dragoon series. I guess I am kind of grateful considering that it's now for Xbox. I therefore don't feel I am missing out on too much.

I am much more happy with Sega's RPG support for GameCube though. It's very appreciated.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Well, the first two Panzer Dragoon were memorable games... but Panzer Dragoon Saga was one of the best RPGs I've ever played... well, it's kind of an hybrid, still, IMO no Square RPG can compare to it...

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
Though the game still hasn't been released I'm really dissapointed that the new installment of the Panzer Dragoon series will be avaible only for the XXXBOX... other than that ? Shenmue IIx, and the possible Shenmue III...


Don't even say that. If Shenmue3 is XXXBOX exclusive then my staement will be proven wrong........

[Quatro]

ok... let me just clarify on behalf of my potential list in XBOX (since you guys are bashing XBOX to much... oh that includes me too :))

> powerful console

well its powerful because of its hardware specs... and that's it, nothing more...

> net play

well in effect to other country, this won't be effective but as we look 5 years from now, I think this feature would be promising (and I said years from now)

> ergo and aesthetics

well it look good when your not holding it... but we can say that it look good nontheless...

[Exophase]

Sega's RPG support for Gamecube? And that would be what, Skies of Arcadia? And?

- Exo

[Samor]

Originally posted by Exophase
Sega's RPG support for Gamecube? And that would be what, Skies of Arcadia? And?

- Exo

Phantasy star online.

[Exophase]

That's not exclusive to GCN...

But then again, neither is Skies of Arcadia. At least GCN is the only current one getting that, though.

- Exo

[Samor]

yeah, it was definately smart from sega to rerelease all the games from their failed console onto various other, more popular consoles.
Almost no development costs.

[Exophase]

Yes... and they're not really pinning any console in particularly. I don't see GCN being their "RPG console of choice" at all, but then again, I don't see Sega as being a big RPG developer at this point either. One port does not equal strong exclusive support for a genre....

- Exo

[Samor]

Afaik only Sonic Team are exclusively developping for Nintendo consoles atm, which isnt so strange, since their games tend to attract a more younger audience in general, like mario.

[N1ghtw0lf]

Sonic was awesome when i was a kid...im glad they brought him back to at least 1 console so i can enjoy the dreams of being a youngen again...there arent any kid games really for X box are there?

[Kid A]

Unlike Mario, Sonic was very educational... It was a naturist game :)

[Kane]

Naturist? Like Nudist?

[Kid A]

Err... I actually hesitated a bit when I was posting that... I thought the very same as you... maybe 'ecologist' would be more appropriate? You know, you gotta kill the big bad bastard who pollutes everything and free the cute little animals... :)

[Ninjaa]

Exophase, I was primarilly thining of Skies of Arcadia (GCN exclusive. No PS2 or Xbox port planned), Evolution Worlds, and Phantasy Star.

[Kraiger Drago]

The "Kiddie" argument against the Gamecube. I have come to the conclusion that these sort of accusations are made out of ignorance of the GC titles. Here is a short list of some of titles that are currently and will be available shortly for the GC:

Upcoming games for the GameCube:
Metroid Prime*, Resident Evil Zero*, the Legend of Zelda*, Dragon's lair 3D, Star Wars: Bounty Hunter, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Defender,X-Men: Wolverine's Revenge, Resident Evil 2*, Resident Evil 3*, Resident Evil 4*, Killer 7*, 1080 degrees*, Kelly Slater Pro Surfer, Mat Hoffman's BMX2, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4, Big Air Freestyel, Beach Spiker's volleyball*, Freekstyle, Agressive Inline, Swingerz Golf*, Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance, Godzilla: Destroy All Monsters*, X-Men: Next Dimension, Black and Bruised, Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast, Die Hard: Vendetta, 007 Nightfire, Medal of Honor: Frontline, Time Splitters 2, Turok: Evolution, F-Zero*, Nascar Thunder 2003, Nascar: Dirt to Daytona, Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles*, Evolution Worlds*, Skies of Arcadia: Legends*, All-Star Baseball 2004, MLB SLugfest 2003, NBA 2K3, NBA Live 2003, Madden 2003, NFL 2K3, Tiger Woods PGA tour 2003, NHL 2003, NHL Hitz 2003, NHL 2K3, FIFA Soccer 2003, Knockout Kings 2003.

* = GameCube Exlusive titles.

Hopefully this will do SOMETHING to dispell the cycle of ignorance that we have going on. Oh, I orginally posted this in the "Me Myself and Getting an Xbox" thread, but I thought I should unload this here as well.

[Gamer1]

the "kiddie" argument was made originally by sega. in order to get stupid kids that wants to act "grown up" to buy their system.

ahh to be young again, and be so gullible.

[Ninjaa]

Are you sure? I had always thought it had started with Square's FF7 ad campaign.

[Kane]

>I was primarilly thining of Skies of Arcadia (GCN exclusive)

Really? Then how the hell diod I get my hands on this dreamcast version I have sitting in my hot sweaty hands.
This is one of the reasons the cube doesn't appeal to me. A lot of ports of DC games with little or no improvement. Why, when I can get the same games + a console for a fraction of the price?

[Ninjaa]

Kane, I meant other than the Dreamcast version. There are going to be a few improvements over the Dreamcast version in the case of Skies of Arcadia though.

But of course, Dreamcast ports aren't the ONLY thing on the console. Hell, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of Dreamcast ports the console has. :D I consider them a bonus, not the end all of GameCube games. :D

[Kane]

Improvements? I played Sonic Adventure 2 on the GC, and it looks like it's a generation late. They could at least try to give it a little improvement before prting it. It looks identical to the DC version.

[Ninjaa]

When did I say that Sonic Adventure was improved over the Dreamcast port?

[Kane]

I didn't say you didn, but they clai#med to make improvements to itnd I don't see them.
If you are gonna do a port, improve it, (like ToP on the PSX) don't do what Square did with FF4-6.

[Ninjaa]

I can't remember them saying they were going to improve it actually, but I'll take your word for it.

In the case of Skies of Arcadia, they have added something like 3 new ships (not sure on the number) and an extra character. I would call that an improvement, wouldn't you?

[Kane]

Whatever. Sound's like the 'improvement' to Soul Calibur to me.

[Ninjaa]

Heh. Sometime I am going to make a game for you Lord Kane. It will have a single character in it, and feature nothing but blood and guts. That saves you the trouble of playing a kiddy game, and as a bonus, you don't have all those nasty extra characters to deal with. :D

[Kane]

And I'll hate it. Blood merely for the purpose of blood? Sonds like MK. A game I hate.

[Ninjaa]

Well, I'd have to otherwise you would call it kiddy. ;)

[Kane]

I didn't once make a reference to Kiddyt in this thread.
esponding to the points:
Kiddy: The GC does give a kiddy persona owing to the advertising (as mentioned in another thread).
Futhermore, I don't have a problem with the GC games coz they are kiddy, but because they are crap. I have the right to say theis as I've had plenty of chance to play the BATARDs on my bro's GC. I don't want any game currently out on the GC.

The Character question: If you are making a port of a game: Upgrade the graphics by all means. Resample the sounds. Don't add new characters. Imagine FF7 if it was ported to PS2 and they added a new character. It'd be wrong neh? It'd feel like (s)he doesn't belong.

[Ninjaa]

Heh. Sorry Lord Kane, but you are coming off sounding EXTREMELY biased. Saying something like "I don't want any game currently out on the GC." Just kind of takes the power out of your arguments.

[Kane]

But it's true. In Europe at least, no games interest me. They are average at best. Oh yeah they look good in the most part, but that is far from everyting in a game.

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Ninja
Saying something like "I don't want any game currently out on the GC." Just kind of takes the power out of your arguments.

Somewhat like my personal opinion. Right now, the only GC game or series that interests ME is RE. Other games, well, I can live easily without them.

[_E_]

hmm,...well thats why we always refer to the genesis vs snes era to be the golden age of the video games industry. Simply becuase MANY hits were released at that time. When i look at the PS2 and GC games, the games look good, but their concept & story is not that attractive if we compared it to the "old-school" games. There are some exceptions, but thats how i look at the new generation consoles games generally....

[N1ghtw0lf]

The "Kiddie" argument against the Gamecube. I have come to the conclusion that these sort of accusations are made out of ignorance of the GC titles. Here is a short list of some of titles that are currently and will be available shortly for the GC: Metroid Prime*, Resident Evil Zero*, the Legend of Zelda*, Dragon's lair 3D, Star Wars: Bounty Hunter, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Defender,X-Men: Wolverine's Revenge, Resident Evil 2*, Resident Evil 3*, Resident Evil 4*, Killer 7*, 1080 degrees*, Kelly Slater Pro Surfer, Mat Hoffman's BMX2, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4, Big Air Freestyel, Beach Spiker's volleyball*, Freekstyle, Agressive Inline, Swingerz Golf*, Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance, Godzilla: Destroy All Monsters*, X-Men: Next Dimension, Black and Bruised, Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast, Die Hard: Vendetta, 007 Nightfire, Medal of Honor: Frontline, Time Splitters 2, Turok: Evolution, F-Zero*, Nascar Thunder 2003, Nascar: Dirt to Daytona, Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles*, Evolution Worlds*, Skies of Arcadia: Legends*, All-Star Baseball 2004, MLB SLugfest 2003, NBA 2K3, NBA Live 2003, Madden 2003, NFL 2K3, Tiger Woods PGA tour 2003, NHL 2003, NHL Hitz 2003, NHL 2K3, FIFA Soccer 2003, Knockout Kings 2003.

Ummm...about that...the only games that arent kidie in that list are the resident evil games...sports games are made so KIDS and adults can play them which means they can still be considered "kiddie"...besides a few others about 3/4 of that list are sports...which isnt right

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Kingstar
When i look at the PS2 and GC games, the games look good, but their concept & story is not that attractive if we compared it to the "old-school" games.

Haven't played Eternal Darkness or Metroid Prime yet eh? Trust me, they would feel right at home on a SNES.

[Kane]

>Haven't played Eternal Darkness or Metroid Prime yet eh? Trust me, they would feel right at home on a SNES.

Why? Because they look crap? j/k
Just playing with you Ninja.
The world has changed, and the games must follow.

[Ninjaa]

Heh. yeah, I would love to see more GTA games. :D

[Kane]

There will always be debates like this, no matter what era we are in IMO.

The 8-bit generation: SMS vs Famicom (NES)
The NES was an obvious winner here. Who here honestly remembers more than a coe of games on the SMS?

The 16-bit generation: Sega Mega Drive (Genesis) vs Super Famicom (Super NES)
This is more difficult. IIRC Sega got their machine out first. On 'average' the two machines were reasonably similar. The bits that the MD could do, it could in theory do faster than the SNES. Clearly the SNES had a superior sound chip, and also had support for the nice Mode 7 effects.
n the games front, these two were at each other's throats. The MD had the better MK ports (blood not sweat), but the Snes had the better SF ports. RPGs were on both. Phantasy Star vs Final Fantasy. Tactics Ogre vs Shining Force. All in all it's a personal preference.
I prefer the SNES, but there are a couple of excellent games onthe MD I couldn't do without (Streets of Rage 2, Shining Force 2)

The 32/64-bit era: Sony Playstation vs Ultra 64 (N64)
The 32-bit and 64-bit era's are much overlapped:
There are many consoles in this 'era' that are missed: The Saturn, whcih was an excellent machine, but quickly beaten down Sony's marketing muscle, The Jaguar, in theory a great maching, but hopelessly lacking in the games department, and the CDi, which most no one's heard of, which says all you need to know.
The Playstation's larger capacity, coupled with a number of companies jumping ship from Nintendo and Sony's strong marketing arm doomed the N64. Branded as kiddy by many people, Nintendo was given a swift kick in the nuts by Sony, eentualy persuading them to drop their hoplessly overated 'family values', and allow a bloody MK and Resident Evil. Too little too late, The N64 really died about 1999 IMO, wheras the PSX was still going strong even after the PS2's release, and is still in good standing today.

The 128-Bit era: PS2 vs XBox vs Gamecube
The Dreamcast overlapped the 32/64/128 bit eras, but nfortunately suffered it's untimely demise. A powerful system, but people were skeptical of Sega following the 32x, Sega CD and Saturn debacles.
The PS2 built on the strength of the PSX, allowing people to play their PSX games on it, and promising the continuation of many of the PSX's steadfast series' such as Final Fantasy. In theory, it's a powerful console, producing excellent games such as Final Fantasy X, Metal Gear Solid 2 and SSX tricky. Unfortunately, programming for it is like trying to castrate a cat with a fish knife, resulting in dreadful ports like Grandia 2.
The Gamecube still has teh 'kiddie' stigma attached to it from the N64 days, and is still recovering to an extent. It's power is only matched by the Xbox, and the future holds many interesting titles, even if the current library is somewhat lacklustre for my tastes.
The XBox cannot be dismissed as another Jaguar or 32x. It's a powerful machine, and is currently outselling the GC in Europe if nothing else. Admittedly e lack of Japanese support is more than a little painful, combined wit hthe M$ stigma attached to it, but M$ has the money to pour into it to try and make it successful.
The PS2 builds on the success of the PSX with many great franchies, and many superb games. Of ccourse being the first machine helps, but the future looks only rosy for this machine. The Gamecube still has the 'kiddy' stigma, but is shaking these shakles and is producing some interesting games, and has a number in the future, such as FF Chrystal Chronicles, and the Tales game. The XBox is castrated by lack of any decent RPG support, but is helped by Sega, Konami and Mirosofts money. The future will be interesting.

We cannot at this time decide a clear victor. It will only beome clear after the battle is fought and won.

[Kraiger Drago]

Originally posted by N1ghtw0lf


Ummm...about that...the only games that arent kidie in that list are the resident evil games...sports games are made so KIDS and adults can play them which means they can still be considered "kiddie"...besides a few others about 3/4 of that list are sports...which isnt right

My brain is still reeling from the naivité of this post... I, don't even know where to BEGIN...

Ummm...about that...the only games that arent kidie in that list are the resident evil games
Have you even played a FPS game before? Do you even know what they are like? Have you ever heard of F-zero? Do you even know what it is? Have you ever seen Die Hard? Do you know what it is about? Have you seen any screenshots from Metroid Prime? Killer 7? Any of the commmercials or trailers for them? Do you know what a Fatality in Mortal Kombat is? Are you even old enough to know Dragon Lair's origin? Do you even know what 007 is?
sports games are made so KIDS and adults can play them which means they can still be considered "kiddie"
Have you ever played an EA sports game? If you did, you would know that they have all these features like Recruiting, Seasons Simulation, etc; features that your average 13 year old is probably not going to have a clue about, or let alone, even care about. Do you know what the average demographic for those are? 17(or 16, cant remember) to about 27 or 28. So even though there wouldn't be an issue with an 8-year old playing NBA Live 2003, that in still in NO WAY qualifies it as a "Kiddie" Game. "E" ERSB rating does not equal "Kiddie Game". I mean, lets see, Gran Turismo was E, is that a kiddie game?
...besides a few others about 3/4 of that list are sports...which isnt right .
Ummm, why? There is absolutely NO LOGIC in that statement. How many of the PS2's games are sports or sports related? A big *****ing hunk. Sports games sell, plain and simple. And as such, there will always be a large amount made for ANY console.

Its not that I have a problem with people not liking the GC. I just have a problem with people using the "kiddie" argument. I mean, if they used the lack of DVD support or something, at least that is a factual, coherent argument, but the "kiddie" argument just showcases ignorance.

Ah, but I do have something POSITIVE to say about *gasp* the Xbox! Xbox Live! offers people an opportunity to play multiplayer games. While that doesnt seem like such a big deal to people here in the states where Internet Connections and such are pretty cheap, its not the same in other countries. I know in Japan that the price of a PC internet service is fairly steep; that is why so many people use their mobiles for their intenet needs. Downside is that you can't necessarily game with it. Im sure it is the same in aome other countries as well. If Microsoft offered the Xbox Live! service in other countries, it could be a major selling point, especially if it was affordable enough. I still dislike the console though :p.

[Exophase]

Originally posted by Ninja
Exophase, I was primarilly thining of Skies of Arcadia (GCN exclusive. No PS2 or Xbox port planned), Evolution Worlds, and Phantasy Star.

Skies of Arcadia isn't a GCN exclusive, because it was released for Dreamcast. Is Evolution Worlds even a Sega game?

- Exo

[Exophase]

Yes, I should read the other posts before I post, oops. ^^ Anyway... like I was saying, Sega's RPG lineup does not impress me. They left their old top RPG franchises, that is Phantasy Star and Shining Force, in the dust. Even back in the 16bit era that was all they really had. The Genesis wasn't an RPG machine. The Saturn fared much better, but most of those never even came out in the US. And the Dreamcast had like 2 "real" RPGs, SoA and Grandia 2. I haven't played Skies of Arcadia, but I found Grandia 2 to be vastly overrated and not even in the same league as some of the best RPGs. PSO isn't even close to being a proper PS game, and Evolution bombed, and most RPG fans didn't have very good things to say about it. I'd have to say that of the lineup Skies of Arcadia is the ONLY RPG Sega has going for GCN and it's not even a new game.

BTW, Dragon Quest 8 has been officially announced for PS2, and it actually looks somewhat decent. Remember when you were saying that in the end that would be the decisive title discerning who got the RPGs? Well, here it is, and hopefully this one will stand out from its predecessors ^_-

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Yeah, I already said that in another thread Exophase. I still think that Nintendo can take a pretty good second place if they play their cards right though.

[Yeloazndevil]

Originally posted by Exophase


Skies of Arcadia isn't a GCN exclusive, because it was released for Dreamcast. Is Evolution Worlds even a Sega game?

- Exo

Well Skies of Arcadia 2 will be released for NGC and PS2, but not Xbox. Evolution Worlds is not a Sega game its publiched by Ubi soft and developed by sting

[Ninjaa]

I haven't heard nothing about Skies of Arcadia 2 yet. Do you have any links?

Sorry, my mistake about Evolution Worlds.

[Exophase]

I haven't heard anything about SoA2 either, and it's not listed on any of the sites I've looked at.

Ninja, if Nintendo doesn't get second place in RPGs with GCN then something will have to have gone seriously wrong... I just don't think XBox stands a chance. The only big name RPG it has is Shin Megami Tensei Nine, and that's not going to stand up well enough against FF:CC and a new Tales games.

This is of course not counting GBA which will probably beat GCN RPG-wise.

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Well of course GCN is going to be second place, but I want a GOOD second place. ;)

As far as the GBA is concerned, I normally think of it as a Trojan Horse. Nintendo sends it out, and you start playing it, and before you know it, you are playing a GameCube. ;) GBA/GCN interactivity is really being pushed nowadays. I still haven't bought my link cable, but I keep on meaning to.

As far as SoA2 goes, I would be surprised to see it go to PS2, as the remake of the first game was cancelled for PS2, and is only going to GCN now.

[Ninjaa]

Is there still hope left for Konami? Maybe.

http://www.gameforms.com/news/?308

In a press packet released yesterday at the Game Giant fair in France, Konami confirmed the existence of Hideo Kojima's latest game, Eclipse.


As mastermind behind the Metal Gear Solid series, Kojima will be making his first title for a Nintendo system since the original NES. Very little is known about Eclipse, which has been described by Kojima as a game focused on the family unit and telling the story of a son trying to "eclipse" his father's legacy.

Eclipse has long been rumored. It's possible that with this game, Nintendo and Konami can finally start giving Nintendo some decent games again. As I am sure many of you know, Konami is the last of the powerful 3rd parties that hasn't returned to Nintendo yet.

EDIT:

Other news:

Latest hardware sales in Japan.
http://www.totalvideogames.com/?section=Read%20News&id=2859&gameid=2804&format=000004

GBA - 150,800
PS2 - 38,400
GCN - 37,400
Xbox - 19,000
PSOne - 18,900

Good news for the Xbox it seems. It finally topped that pesky PSX. ;)

Seriously though, this is the closest that PS2 and GCN have been since the start of this war. GBA sales are currently off the charts due to the release of the new Pokemon games, and the GCN sales are picking up with Nintendo's latest barrage of marketting focusing on Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 0 and Legend of Zelda: Kaze no Tokuto.

We could be finally seeing a changing of the guard in Japan.

[Kraiger Drago]

Actually, Konami has 4 games that are coming out for GC: Disney All-Star Sports Football, Disney All-Star Sports Soccer (with GBA connectivity), Disney All-Star Sports Basketball, and Disney All-Star Sports Skateboarding. The only one that might be a GC exclusive is the Soccer one, since it has the GBA connectivity and all.

Of course, I do not consider these to be real contributions from Konami; I mean, they *MIGHT* be good and all, but seriously, Make with the Metal Gears! the Castlevanias! Dammit, I want a Goemon game for my GC!

[Ninjaa]

Yes, I know Konami has 4 Disney games coming out for GameCube, but that alone says a message. Konami bigwigs are a bunch of brainless morons who have actually said repeatedly that GameCube appeals to a younger demographic. In case they didn't follow the news, the average age of a GameCube owner is 23 FREAKING YEARS!

Kojima-san seems to be the powerful person in Konami with any faith in the GameCube.

[Kid A]

Lol. GBA outsells all of them together :eek:

[shinji^]

Yeah, they buy PS2 and GBA the most. And that's with games too; the top 10 list consists only PS2 games and one GBA game, but I forgot it's name^^

[Ninjaa]

GBA wastes the PS2 quite regularly. Nothing can compete with it. It's just that GBA sales are HUGE right now because of the new Pokemon games. :D

Shinji, there's always a GameCube game, and more than one GBA game on the top 10 list.

For example, the #1 game in Japan from Nov 4 - 10th was Mario Party 4. #4 was From TV Animation One Piece Treasure Battle which is for GCN.

[mattybones]

i dont actually care anymore which is the best console all i care about is that the system(s) i like (gamecube,gba) are still in business and dont go out like the dc

[N1ghtw0lf]

I like all of em besides X box...it jsut doesnt have the controls/games i like...

[Koji2009]

A game system is a system... the only reason anyone should ever like 1 system over another is the games... and possibly the controllers...

I personally think all the game systems have some great games that I want... but I've boughten an gamecube and unless fate plays kindly enough into my hands to give me money I'm stuck with it (not that that's a bad thing...)

[Yeloazndevil]

Originally posted by Exophase
I haven't heard anything about SoA2 either, and it's not listed on any of the sites I've looked at.

well Sega is just thinking of ideas for SoA2 so their is no real development for it yet and its only a rumor in PSM and EGM

[Ninjaa]

You know, I've been thinking. Nintendo's Megaton announcement is driving all of us Nintendo fans crazy. For the longest time, we assumed that Nintendo was going to announce Dragon Quest VIII for GameCube and be done with it. However, that hasn't happened, and Enix just announced the game for PS2.

Yet apparently according to the powers that be, Nintendo is still going to announce a big project by the end of the year that will cause GameCube sales to explode.

So we know it's not Dragon Quest now. What else could it possibly be? It's more mysterious than ever now. Of course there is the rumor that Konami has something up their sleeves, but have delayed announcing it due to Capcom's big announcement.

Some people have their own theories on the matter though.

[Koji2009]

hahah that is just funny... and yet it's just crazy enough to work...

[Ninjaa]

I think that one is being left up to the fans though. ;)

[Quatro]

hehehe... how does those people come up with those ideas... seems like the flaming war on Microsoft will be a LONG one...

must visit planetgamecube.com to read other stuf like this one...

[Koji2009]

Well m$ is hated on so many levels by so many people (a majority of them don't even know why accept what reasons OTHER people tell them to hate it for) it probably will go on for awhile. In all respects Sony should just sit back and watch it happen... sony has the majority of the power it doesn't really have anything to worry about from nintendo or M$ right now... once true dominance for 2nd place... then sony might have to start worrying.

[Ninjaa]

Heh. Those cartoons haven't been around for long, and some of them are completely stupid, but that is one of the two that I have found really funny so far. But PGC is good reading anyway, so I wouldn't dissuade you. They also had a really good article a while back when they got invited to Microsoft's Xbox Live! Demonstration. :D

EDIT: This (http://www.cube-europe.com/newsphp/news.php?id=3039) article make a lot of sense. A LOT of sense. I hadn't really thought about it before, but why do you need a whole inch to play GBA games?

I still find it interesting the way he put it though. I might just buy one of those things in order to make my GameCube an actual cube. :D

I do think that Pokemon would be the PERFECT game to start out Nintendo's Online push though. It has a massive userbase, and it already involves player interaction. Making it online would be a perfectly natural move for the game.

EDIT2: Man, I really hope Nintendo gives me a good Christmas present this year. Last year they gave me the GameCube, and the first movies of Legend of Zelda and Mario Sunshine. I cannot wait to see what this is.

[Koji2009]

It's not likely pokemon unless it's hidden in the game (pokemon ruby and sapphire are already out in japan... as well as Prime is out in the US... which throws it into question) but there is something big happening and nintendo really thinks this will be it... and it's not just nintendo... there is something big coming... and I just hope it's surprising enough to throw everyone off ^_^

[Ninjaa]

True enough. Nintendo is REALLY playing hardball right now though, and this announcement is really going to be big. I can feel it. I just can't believe I have to wait so long to find out what it is. SOMEONE has to leak it to us....

I have no doubt that it will be something unexpected, but what could POSSIBLY be bigger than Dragon Quest?

[Koji2009]

dunno... but gotta wonder if Nintendo is serious about going online if the Triforce arcades are going to work online too...

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by mattybones
i dont actually care anymore which is the best console all i care about is that the system(s) i like (gamecube,gba) are still in business and dont go out like the dc

Hey ! the Dreamcast fared well, it wasn't its fault to go off market... Sega was almost in bankrupt, it couldn't be helped... besides games (though vey few) are still coming for the Dreamcast... just take a look at any good import store...

hehehe... how does those people come up with those ideas... seems like the flaming war on Microsoft will be a LONG one...

Flaming war ? of all the wars out there it's the only one that I find to be "pointless"... it's just a waste of time...

[_E_]

Ninja, to say the truth, Nintendo pissed me off with thier GBA. Not only they imitate the front design of Sega's GG, they are coming up with all the SNES games without any single improvement. A link to the past, Street Fighter, Super MArio Advance are exact replicas. Nothing more. The only games I liked were Tom and Jerry ( :D , silly me) and Sonic Advance...

[Kane]

Just thought you might wanna see this. This is from RPGFan:Enix ... projected sales of 810,000 copies for its second key title of the fiscal year, Star Ocean Till The End of Time. The company is currently developing 25 titles (80% PS2, 10% GameBoy Advance and 10% PC games). Currently there are no plans to develop titles for GameCube, Xbox or WonderSwan Color.Combined with Square's lacklustre support of the GC (1 title, IIRC), and complete shunning of Microsoft's X-Box, it looks like the world is rosy for RPG fans with a PS2.
What was of interest was Enix saying 10% on PC.... The word w00t springs to mind.

[_E_]

10% on PC!! damn it! I thought Enix was concentrating mainly on PC games!..oh well,.....:( As for the PS2, its was said before , sony is still enjoying the large party support from various software companies, which is something MS and Nintendo does have....

[Kaiser Sigma]

It will take A LOT to surpass the PS2 on the RPG area... and I agree with you, Kingstar... so far most of the titles for the GBA are remakes...

EDIT : MOST, not all...

[Ninjaa]

Some, not most. I look at the shelf of GBA games in my retailers, I only see a handful of remakes. Let's not exaggerate here ok? And Kingstar, Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past has an extra 4 player game mode. I would call that an improvement.

Kane, Square is currently developing 2 GameCube games, but one's title is still not yet announced. Enix is also developing 3 games for GameCube. They said so themselves a while back. RPGFan is wrong in this case.

[Kane]

Whatever you say Ninja. I'm more likely however to listen to RPGFan than word of mouth....

[Ninjaa]

Well, each to his own. I personally prefer to listen to Enix's press releases than RPGFan's news.

[_E_]

Originally posted by Ninja
Some, not most. I look at the shelf of GBA games in my retailers, I only see a handful of remakes. Let's not exaggerate here ok? And Kingstar, Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past has an extra 4 player game mode. I would call that an improvement.


I am not exaguratting. I was expecting an improvement in Legends of Zelda: A link to the Past, but i was let down. That four multiplayer game is an add-on and its called Zelda: The Four Swords.
I didnt say that all of them are remakes, but until now, out of 5 GBA games, 3 of them are remakes, while the others are new games.....

[Ninjaa]

If you would like, I can post a list of all GBA games out to date, and count how many are remakes and how many are not. I am guessing that about 5% of them would be remakes.

And add-on or not, 4 swords is a bonus feature you don't get on the SNES.

[_E_]

Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong,...:) I am a stubborn minded person, I wont believe it until i see it myself, anyhow, dont worry, I ll post this list tommorow myself,..then we can talk about it once more ;)

[Ninjaa]

I am not feeling up to making such a list right now either. Maybe I'll get something going later on today. If so, I will PM it to you to avoid spamming this thread.

Lord Kane, I can't find the original story right now, but here's a breakdown of what Enix has planned for the next year.

http://www.gamersmark.com/news/2002/06/0/1531/

Playstation 2 : 6 games
Game Boy Advance : 5 games
Nintendo GameCube : 3 games

All in all, I don't think that Nintendo got the ****ty end of the stick.

[Koji2009]

At this point major 3rd partys are picking sides in the console wars... not that they weren't before... but there is still a bit of shuffling around. Most are trying to keep in good terms with all 3 consoles.. .and if not all three at least Sony and Nintendo (Sony as it's the largest one right now and nintendo do to they may make mistakes but they are long term players as well as doing a lot better in Japan)

M$ realized this was coming and has therefore been trying to snatch up 2nd party companies to add to it's exclusive content (like Rare)

Really the console wars have just begun... PS2 has it's head start and great 3rd party support; Nintendo has it's name, excellent 1st and 2nd parties as well as decent 3rd party support; M$ has a good amount of 1st,2nd, and 3rd party games.

No one person is instantly going to decide a winner... one probably won't be claimed untill the 3 consoles are long dead... and even then it will be debated...

As for the majority of games being remakes for GBA... go to IGN.com, go to the gameboy section, click on games... you will notice the very vast majority are brand new games and only a few are remakes... mostly they are remakes of classic games that are fun to be able to take with you... but the majority are still brand new games.

Edit: I made a mistake... you can't call those games for GBA remakes... they are ports... ports and remakes are very different things...

[Exophase]

Ninja, it's one site's word against another's, and of course both would insist that their news is "official."

Nintendo planning something big.. yeah, woowoo, I see they're playing the hype game again now. I can't stand blind hype like this, especially when people are gullible enough to start drooling because Nintendo tells them they're going to come out with some secret weapon to destroy the competition, yet no one has a CLUE what it is. I say take Nintendo's random hype with a grain of salt.. of course, if this isn't the incredible thing Nintendo is promising everyone then they're going to feel it, hard. Hype like this almost always backfires; how do you live up to such claims?

About the GBA's oversaturation of ports/remakes.. I would like you to make that list, Ninja. Better yet, why not someone compose a list of average scores off of a review site, for all their GBA games? Then we can see where the high scoring games land. I can bet you that only a handful of games released in at least both Japan and the USA have both scored well and aren't ports/remakes or at the very least offshoots. The ones that are are ones that seem to score well solely on the basis because they ARE something new, IE Golden Sun. That's just my opinion, but how people can condemn Beyond the Beyond and praise Golden Sun is completely beyond me when both games are made by the same company and have the exact same feel, only one happens to have been released 5 years after the other.

- Exo

EDIT: Double signed! o.o

[Kaiser Sigma]

> If you would like, I can post a list of all GBA games out to date, and count how many are remakes and how many are not. I am guessing that about 5% of them would be remakes.

While I don't think that the number surpass the 40 %, 5% is an exageration... like it or not, lot of games in the GBA are remakes... and even some of the ones coming are (the new SD for example... and also the rumored new remake of Lunar... EBA)...

> And add-on or not, 4 swords is a bonus feature you don't get on the SNES.

Under that viewpoint then FFIV for the PSX is a total new game since it features a "two player mode"... sorry Ninja, Zelda: The Four Swords is just a remake with a small new feature...

[Ninjaa]

40%? I think I should compile that list shortly if people are THAT misillusioned.

> Under that viewpoint then FFIV for the PSX is a total new game since it features a "two player mode"... sorry Ninja, Zelda: The Four Swords is just a remake with a small new feature...

Yes, that's exactly what I said. If you will check, I said that in response to Kingstar saying that it was a straight port with no improvements.

Exophase, I would rather not add scores, as that would double the amount of work I would have to do, and I don't agree with most reviewers scoring methods anyway.

But if the top scoring games ARE ports, then what's the problem? They are deserving of a port. :D

[Gamer1]

People are sheep... Like the people that thinks that the latest final fantasy is the greatest final fantasy ever...

I don't mind remakes... but remaking the game to the gameboy advance.... really takes out the fun in it... Like when they realeased Mario 1,2,3, and Lost Levels for the SNES... i like the conversion... But... when they rereleased it for the gameboy...(mario 1 and 2) it doesn't have the feel anymore... and the port was (IMO) really bad (the screen ruined it).

God bless the emu... the REAL preserver of classics.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> 40%? I think I should compile that list shortly if people are THAT misillusioned.

Watch it Ninja... we all are talking in a civilized manner... the "misillusioned" part is out of place... and bring your list, you will fight to prove your point and I'll fight to prove mine...

> God bless the emu... the REAL preserver of classics.

I double that...

[Ninjaa]

I won't retract my statement about you being misillusioned because there is nothing even remotely hostile about it Kaiser. I am not going to apologize if I have done nothing wrong.

I am going to go make a list now to back up my words.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> I won't retract my statement about you being misillusioned because there is nothing even remotely hostile about it Kaiser. I am not going to apologize if I have done nothing wrong.
I am going to go make a list now to back up my words.

*nods head with an arrogant smile* heh, never asked for such a thing... it's just an observation, you said you didn't want a "flame war", then you should watch the words you use... you may have not tried to be "hostile", but to me, it sounded that way... I await your list, then we will discuss wheter I'm "misillusioned" or if I really have a point...

[Ninjaa]

...whatever... anyways,

You have no idea how happy it made me when I got to the end of this list. An entire hour of copy and paste really takes its toll on you. As a result, I have no doubt that I have double posted a few of these names, and I would be happy to remove them if someone tells me what they are.

Also, I tried to filter this list of rumored games, but I may have missed a couple.

If I have grossly miscategorized something, let me know there as well and I will fix it.

One last thing. I haven't bothered to count these games. There are just too freaking many. If someone wants to, go for it. If I had to guess, I would say that there are between 10 - 15% remakes on the GBA. Of those, maybe half are actually SNES remakes, and the rest are classics from PC or Arcade days. Anyways, I've made my point. Now can we move on to next generation console discussion?

-=REMAKES=-
Phantasy Star Collection
Wings
Defender
Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Yoshi's Island: Super Mario Advance 3
Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2
Rock N' Roll Racing
Yoshi's Story
Kirby: Nightmare in Dreamland
Super Mario Advance
PAC-MAN Collection
Tetris Worlds (Not sure what category this belongs in...)
Earthworm Jim
Earthworm Jim 2
Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure
Breath of Fire
Breath of Fire 2
The Lost Vikings
Final Fight One
Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo Revival
Phalanx
A Boy and His Blob Advance
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Doom
Doom II
Wolfenstein 3D
LUNAR: Legend
Sega Smash Pack
Namco Museum
Midway's Greatest Arcade Hits
Game & Watch Gallery 4
Atari Anniversary Advance
Konami Collectors: Arcade Advanced
Bubble Bobble Old & New


-=ORIGINAL=-
Mario Kart Super Circuit (Not sure what category this belongs in...)
ChuChu Rocket! (Not sure what category this belongs in...)
Super Bust-a-Move (Not sure what category this belongs in...)
Contra Advance: The Alien Wars EX (Not sure what category this belongs in...)
Spy Hunter (Not sure what category this belongs in...)
Sabre Wulf (yes, it's still coming.)
Banjo-Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge (yes, it's still coming.)
Diddy Kong Pilot (yes, it's still coming.)
Donkey Kong Coconut Crackers (yes, it's still coming.)
Denki Blocks
Snood
Cruis'n Velocity
Monster Farm Mania
ESPN X Games Skateboarding
NFL Blitz 20-02 GBA
Powerpuff Girls: Mojo Jojo A-Go-Go
Denki Blocks
High Heat Major League Baseball 2002
Hot Potato!
Ready 2 Rumble Boxing: Round 2
Dragon Ball Z: The Legacy of Goku
Magi-Nation Advance
Broken Sword II: The Smoking Mirror
Zone of the Enders: The Fist of Mars
Broken Sword III: The Sleeping Dragon
King Of Fighters EX: Neo Blood
European Super League
Gradius Galaxies
Crash Bandicoot: The Huge Adventure
Crazy Chase starring Kid Klown
Driven (GBA)
Sports Illustrated for Kids Baseball
Sports Illustrated for Kids Football
Sports Illustrated for Kids Basketball
Rugrats Castle Capers
Lady Sia
Minority Report
BackTrack
Boxing Fever
Midnight Club
GT Advance 2: Rally Racing
M&M's Party
Duke Nukem: Retribution
Rocket Power: Dream Scheme
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone.
Pinball of the Dead
Roll-o-Rama
Tang Tang
Moto GP Advance
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Oni Advance
Atlantis: The Lost Empire
Fila Decathlon
Hot Wheels: Burnin' Rubber
James Pond: Codename Robocod
Rampage Puzzle Attack
MX 2002 Featuring Ricky Carmichael
Worms Blast Advance
Wizardry: Summoner
Men in Black: the Series
Razor Freestyle Scooter
Mega Man Battle Network 2
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
Fire Emblem Advance
Jurassic Park III: The DNA Factor
Jurassic Park III: Park Builder
Jurassic Park III: Primal Fear
Frogger's Adventure: Temple of the Frog
Sansara Naga
Lego Island 2: The Brickster's Revenge
Mat Hoffman's Pro BMX
Mech Platoon
Tom and Jerry: The Magic Ring
Survivor GBA
Broken Sword: Shadow of the Templars
Star Wars: Jedi Power Battles
Guilty Gear X Advance Edition
Car Battler Joe
Shaun Palmer's Pro Snowboarder
4x4 Off-Roaders
Aerial Aces
Pocky & Rocky with Becky
CUBE
Batman: Vengeance
Ecks vs. Sever
Dexter's Laboratory: Deesaster Strikes!
Powerpuff Girls: Him and Seek
Creatures
Klonoa: Empire of Dreams
Spider-Man: Mysterio's Menace
Columns Crown
Dark Arena
F-14 Tomcat
X-Men: Reign of Apocalypse
Gadget Racers
Lego Bionicle: Quest for the Toa
Lego Racers 2
Stuart Little 2
Super Dodge Ball Advance
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
Mega Man Battle Network
Pinobee: Wings of Adventure
F-Zero: Maximum Velocity
Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis
Wario Land 4
Magical Vacation
ESPN Championship Golf 2002
Bomberman Tournament
Advance Wars
Top Gear GT Championship
Fire Pro Wrestling
Tweety and the Magic Jewel
Fortress
Alone in the Dark
Mr. Driller 2
E.T.: The Extra Terrestrial
SpongeBob SquarePants: SuperSponge
Konami Krazy Racers
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Metroid Fusion
Hardcore Pinball
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
Super Monkey Ball Jr.
Bokura no Taiyou (Our Sun)
Pokemon: Ruby Version
Pokemon: Sapphire Version
GT Advance 3
Altered Beast: Guardians of the Realm
Legends of Wrestling II
Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2
Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 3
Gauntlet: Dark Legacy
WWE Road to WrestleMania X8
Slam Dunk: Streetball
He-Man: The Power of Grayskull
Hot Wheels: Velocity X
Invincible Iron Man
Super Bubble Pop
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
Iridion
Iridion II
Digimon: Battle Spirits
X-Men: Wolverine's Revenge
Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicle
Golden Sun
Golden Sun II
Samurai Jack
Sonic Advance
Sonic Advance II
Galidor: Defenders of the Outer Dimension
Yu-Gi-Oh! The Eternal Duelist Soul
Army Men Advance
Spyro: Season of Ice
GT Advance Championship Racing
Rayman Advance
Rayman 3 GBA
Tekken Advance
Heart of Darkness
Young Olympians: Mythos
Scooby-Doo and the Cyber Chase
Invader
Black Belt Challenge
Puyo Pop
Power Rangers Time Force
Ultimate Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat Advance
Planet of the Apes
The Wild Thornberrys: Chimp Chase
Prehistorik Man
Bomberman Max 2
Muppet Pinball Mayhem
Urban Yeti
Smuggler's Run
Magical Quest Starring Mickey and Minnie Mouse
Shining Soul
NBA Jam 2002
MLB Baseball from Sega
Lufia: The Ruins of Lore
Monsters, Inc.
Tom and Jerry: The Magic Ring GBA
Caesar's Palace Advance
Star X
Jackie Chan Adventures: Legend of the Dark Hand
Tiny Toons Adventure: Buster's Bad Dream
WWF: Road to Wrestlemania
No Rules: Get Phat
Alienators: Evolution Continues
Wizards
Motocross Maniacs Advanced
Fire Pro Wrestling 2
X-Bladez: In-Line Skater
Sheep
Black Black
Colin Mc Rae Rally 2.0
Chessmaster
Salt Lake 2002
Maya the Bee
Robotech: The Macross Saga
Baseball Advance
Punch King
Jonny Moseley Mad Trix
Inspector Gadget: Adavnce Mission
Mike Tyson Boxing
Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones
Shrek Swamp Kart Speedway
All-Star Baseball 2003 GBA
Penny Racers
The Scorpion King: Sword of Osiris
Spyro 2: Season of Flame
Monster Force
The Lord of the Rings, Part One
Frogger Advance: The Great Quest
Dinotopia: The Timestone Pirates
Blender Bros.
Ice Age
ZooCube
NHL 2002
Driver 2 Advance
Virtual Kasparov
Egg Mania: Eggstreme Madness GBA
Dexter's Laboratory: Chess Challenge
Matchbox Cross Town Heroes
Fairly OddParents
David Beckham Soccer GBA
Backyard Baseball
Disney All-Star Sports: Soccer (GBA)
Disney All-Star Sports: Skateboarding (GBA)
Disney All-Star Sports: Football (GBA)
Disney All-Star Sports: Snowboarding
Disney All-Star Sports: Basketball (GBA)
Klonoa 2 (GBA)
Klonoa Heroes: Legend of the Star Medal
Shrek Extra Large
Shrek: Hassle at the Castle
Spiralstone
The Revenge of Shinobi
Space Channel 5
Kelly Slater's Pro Surfer GBA
Shaun Murray's Pro Wakeboarder (GBA)
Turbo Turtle Adventure
Donkey Kong Plus
Kururin Paradise
Airforce Delta Storm
Yu-Gi-Oh! The Immortal Duelist Soul
Yu-Gi-Oh! Dungeon Dice Monsters
WTA Tour Tennis
BattleBots: Beyond the Battlebox
The Hulk GBA
Silent Scope
Next Generation Tennis
The Sum of all Fears - GBA
Oddworld: Munch's Oddyssey
Monster Truck Madness 2.0 (eh?)
Cubix: Robots for Everyone: Clash 'n Bash
Rocky GBA
The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers GBA
Madden NFL 2003 GBA
Moto Racer Advance
Ronin
Virtua Tennis GBA
Godzilla: Domination
Star Wars Episode II: The New Droid Army
Hyperspace Delivery Boy
SSX Tricky
Kong: The Animated Series
The Mummy
Disney’s The Jungle Book
Sabrina The Teenage Witch: Potion Commotion
Justice League: Injustice for All
Dr. Muto GBA
ATV: Quad Power Racing
Woody Woodpecker in Crazy Castle 5
Lego Island Xtreme Stunts
Aggressive Inline GBA
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Prophecy
Deadly Skies
Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe
The Pink Panther
Starsky & Hutch (GBA)
Sega Rally Championship
Reign of Fire GBA
Harvest Moon: Friends of Mineral Town
SpongeBob SquarePants: Flying Dutchman GBA
Ripping Friends, The
xXx
Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever
FIFA Soccer 2003 GBA
Rocket Power: Beach Bandits GBA
The Invincible Iron Man
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Jazz Jackrabbit
Kien
R-Type III: The Third Lightning
Zapper GBA
Sea Trader: Rise of Taipan
Karnaaj Rally
Jimmy Neutron vs. Jimmy Negatron
GT Advance 3: Pro Concept Racing
Vexx GBA
NHL Hitz 20-03 GBA

[Yeloazndevil]

..........damn! :eek: thats a lot of games for GBA and o yea lets get back to next gen consoles dicussion

[Kaiser Sigma]

About that list :
Mario Kart Super Circuit
ChuChu Rocket!
Broken Sword II: The Smoking Mirror
Crazy Chase starring Kid Klown
Pinball of the Dead
James Pond: Codename Robocod
Jurassic Park III: The DNA Factor
Broken Sword: Shadow of the Templars
Star Wars: Jedi Power Battles
Alone in the Dark
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
Altered Beast: Guardians of the Realm
X-Men: Wolverine's Revenge
Army Men Advance
Rayman Advance
Heart of Darkness
Ultimate Mortal Kombat
Prehistorik Man
Colin Mc Rae Rally 2.0
Chessmaster
Virtual Kasparov
The Revenge of Shinobi
Space Channel 5
Oddworld: Munch's Oddyssey
Virtua Tennis GBA
Disney’s The Jungle Book
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Prophecy
Deadly Skies
Sega Rally Championship
Reign of Fire GBA
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Jazz Jackrabbit

Either they are remakes (James Pond, Chessmaster) or ports... IMO they are the same, there's no original idea behind a port, in the end it's just some kind of remake (well, it's not, but I hope you get my point...) many remakes are missing on that list, just right now I'd lie if I mention names... only 2 come to mind, the "new" seiken densetsu and the rumored remake of Lunar EB... as soon as I get the others I'll post them...
Ok, back to next gen consoles discussion... though IMO the GBA fits the category as it's a next gen portable system...

[Ninjaa]

Hey, it's easy to criticize. You didn't have to make that list. :D It's not your eyes that are bleeding, and have the bruised fingers to prove it.

I'll get around to countering that later.... I guess.

Kingstar's original point was that GBA only had SNES remakes. I have disproved that and then some. If you want to do remakes in general, well that's a lot harder.

Without going too much into detail right now, I don't see how come you have games such as Chu Chu Rocket! and Star Wars: Jedi Power Battles on that list. It's true that nothing groundbreaking is going into those games, but they are more than mere ports. They are essentially being moved from Dreamcast/PSX to a GameBoy, which is a lot more than a straight port.

And I am aware that I missed a few games on that list, but do you have any idea how hard it is to find a complete list of GBA games? This list is essentially the whole thing at PlanetGameCube, but since they are not a GBA site, they don't regularly update that portion as much as they do the GameCube stuff.

Anyways, I'll go over this list with you tomorrow if I must. Right now I lack the energy, and I desperately need sleep.

EDIT: Woo hoo!! 666th post!

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Kingstar's original point was that GBA only had SNES remakes. I have disproved that and then some. If you want to do remakes in general, well that's a lot harder.

I know, my point is wider that Kingstar's... still it's my oppinion, the GBA features too many remixes and ports... not the console's fault though, more likely the game producer's...

[_E_]

Originally posted by Ninja
> Kingstar's original point was that GBA only had SNES remakes. I have disproved that and then some. If you want to do remakes in general, well that's a lot harder.


well, thats exactly what i said " out of 5 GBA games, 3 games are remakes" . Anyhow, the number of remakes ( as far as i see) are more than the number of orginals. The only original game i liked in GBA was Sonic Advance, its a hard, but yet, fun game. When i refer to your list, It seems that I was wrong. Anyhow, I shall see for myself, since I didnt play many games listed on the "original" list...

Anyhow, that should be the end of the discussion, Ninja's list was so long, I am sure he put alot of effort into it, so thanks ninja! :)

[Ninjaa]

Heh. No problem. My purpose in life is to guide the lost sheep toward the truth. ;) It took a huge chunk of my time, and was indeed a lot of work, but it was worth it.

Anyways, there's some new news on the Nintendo/Sony front. In a countermove to the Xbox Live it seems, Sega has announced that they will be using their own servers to host PS2/GCN games. It seems that there is finally a viable way for developers to create online games for GameCube, whether Nintendo is ready or not. Personally, I am a little anxious, as this will take a lot of wind out of whatever it was that Nintendo had up their sleeves, but I am more grateful, as Nintendo had to get around to it sooner or later. The online aspect of the Xbox seemed to have become a major selling factor.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Ninja
Heh. No problem. My purpose in life is to guide the lost sheep toward the truth. ;) It took a huge chunk of my time, and was indeed a lot of work, but it was worth it.
(...)

*Kaiser yawns with an evil smile* "And with the ages the shepherd thought he knew the way in the woods as well as the palm of his hand... one day he strayed of the path and got himself and the sheeps lost... that day the wolf attacked, devouring the fool shepherd and feasting on the skins of the sheeps..."
Ahem... here's a little list, it's not finished I'll look more as soon as I can, but so far it contains all the titles that fits my description... either remakes or ports (ports of old games, I don't consider Spiderman : The movie to be a port that counts against the GBA)...

Super Mario Advance
Chu Chu Rocket
Fire Pro Wrestling
Silent Hill
Final Fight One
Ready 2 Rumble Boxing - Round 2
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
Namco Museum Advance
Earthworm Jim
Pitfall - The Mayan Adventure
Army Men Advance
F-Zero - Maximum Velocity
Fire Pro Wrestling
Rayman Advance
Breath of Fire
Super Street Fighter II X
Pac-Man Collection
Mario Kart Advance
Jurassic Park 3 - DNA Factor
Tetris Worlds
Caesar's Palace Advance
Prehistorik Man
Doom
Super Street Fighter II Turbo
Gradius Advance
Star Wars - Jedi Power Battles
Mat Hoffman's Pro BMX
Super Bust-A-Move
Midways Greatest Arcade Hits
Columns Crown
Super Mario Advance
Breath of Fire II
Mortal Kombat Advance
Tekken Advance
Guilty Gear X
Puyo Pop
NBA Jam 2002
Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3
Space Invaders
Rainbow Six Rogue Spear
Broken Sword - The Shadow of the Templars
Chessmaster
Wolfenstein 3D
Lunar Legend
Super Mario World
Earthworm Jim 2
Yoshi's Island
Super Ghouls N Ghosts
Street Fighter Zero/Alpha 3
Samurai Evolution
Sega Smash Pack

I'll update it as soon as I find new material... BTW it doesn't contain some of the titles on your list of remixes...
Note : my purpose in life... *smiles* that's a big secret...

[Ninjaa]

Heh. You are one strange guy Kaiser. I did indeed miss a few on that list. The only one that really stands out at me at the moment is Silent Hill, but I am sure I missed more as well on both sides.

I'll just throw a few names back at you at the moment, and then I have to go watch a movie.

these are not remakes.

F-Zero - Maximum Velocity
Star Wars - Jedi Power Battles
Rainbow Six Rogue Spear
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2

There are more I am sure, but I am less familiar with them, so I will let them go for now. Anyways, I'm off.

[Kaiser Sigma]

> F-Zero - Maximum Velocity
I have to see the game... maybe I talked before time... but to me it looked like some kind of port of the snes version...

> Star Wars - Jedi Power Battles
Direct port of the Dreamcast version, which by the way, was an awful game...

> Rainbow Six Rogue Spear
PC game... from what I read it IS some kind of port...

> Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
Isn't there a THPS for the PSX and the PC ? yeah, that's what I thought...

[Ninjaa]

Kaiser, F-Zero is a sequel to the SNES version. It happens roughly 25 years after the SNES game.

As for the others, come on man, listen to yourself. Dreamcast PORT on GBA? Doesn't that seem a little ridiculous to you? The game has to be redesigned from the ground up to be made on the GBA. In doing so, it becomes a completely new experience, and a new game.

I have played THPS2 on N64, PSX, and GBA. The N64 and PSX versions were identical in most respects, except that the buttons used were different , and the graphics were better on the N64.

On the GBA, the game was COMPLETELY different. The controls didn't work the same, the game was no longer in full 3D, and the game just felt different.

[Kraiger Drago]

I spent a lot of time wondering around the various retail stores today (securing my copy of RE:0 and Metroid Prime, though I wont get to play them until December 24th :(); while I was in one store I noticed something that I hadn't ever noticed before: The Konami Logo on a pack of Yu-Gi-Oh! cards.

This made me start thinking about the Nitendo's Megaton announcement. If I remember correctly, Yu-Gi-Oh! is more popular in Japan (at least Sales-wise) than Pokémon, and we know how Pokémon boosts the sales of GBA. Konami supposedly has big news to announce as well, and since the Yu-Gi-Oh! is Konami and all.. But I seriously hope that is not it. I mean, I really don't think it is, after how bad the N64 Pokémon games were, I really don't see a NGC Pokémon game boosting sales; nor a Yu-Gi-Oh! game either.

We know its not Dragonquest (a a title that is more popular in Japan than the FF series, a factoid I learned from Ninja). But, personally, I dont think that a single or series of titles[*edit* like RE series or Megaman Series] (with the exception of Zelda, I knew people who bought an N64 just to play it, and with the GC being the cheapest of the new consoles, it could happen again) would boost sales of the console any significant amount. It would take a WHOLE LOT of Titles. If Rockstar, Konami, and Square said that "Screw the PS2, the NGC is getting all the new GTAs and MGs and FFs" then yeah, but that just ISNT going to happen.

My Theory- A Bad-@$$ Peripheral. Some sort of add-on for the NGC; maybe something that connects to your PC, or ummm......, a new powerglove, or.. Rob GC (with Gyromite 64!), I dont know.. something. Games make the consoles and all, but I don't know.. I suspect it has to be something more...

[Ninjaa]

Eh? I don't know who told you that Yu-Gi-Oh sold more than Pokemon... whoever did lied. Here are the sales data so far. (In millions)

Pocket Monster (Green, Red, Blue) 8.00
Pocket Monster Silver 3.41
Pocket Monster Gold 3.30
Pocket Monster Crystal 1.82
Pocket Monster Yellow 1.70

Yugioh Duel Monsters 1.60
Yugioh Duel Monsters II: Dark Duel Stories 1.45
Yugioh Duel Monsters IV:Strongest Duel Record 2.05

Actually, I was thinking some more about this myself. The rumors seem to be flying around like crazy about Konami lately. As we all know, Konami is the last of the major developers to embrace the GameCube. Once Konami's in, Nintendo will have all the ones that really count.

A few Konami games have been confirmed on the side. Eclipse (Kojima's GameCube project) being one of the more prominant ones. It was thought that Konami was going to announce some SERIOUS support for GameCube recently, but the Capcom announcement caused them to delay their own announcement for a little longer. I think it's entirely possible, as Eclipse still hasn't been officially confirmed, although unofficial reports say that Konami and Nintendo have finally managed to reconcile their differences.

What if Capcom and Konami are just the tip of the iceberg? What if a whole bunch of developers are about to announce a bunch of games for GameCube? It's possible, and would definately sell a lot of GameCubes. And Nintendo really is up to something. They just ordered a whole stockpile of CPUs from IBM, and seem to be entrenching themselves preparing for a huge amount of customers.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Knowing my luck, it will be something stupid (but cool nonetheless), but I still have my expectations high. :)

[Quatro]

you guys really know a lot of games... my head aches reading your post and kaiser ninja... but then again, these games are well related to the topic... Pokemon is way too popular compare to Yu-Gi-Oh...

[Carnage]

/how bad the N64 Pokémon games were/
man,ever seen the graphs of pok.stadium2???those where beautifull:) anyway,ya,the gameplay and story wasn't fantastic,but it was great to see them do the stuff in 3d

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Ninja
Kaiser, F-Zero is a sequel to the SNES version. It happens roughly 25 years after the SNES game.

As for the others, come on man, listen to yourself. Dreamcast PORT on GBA? Doesn't that seem a little ridiculous to you? The game has to be redesigned from the ground up to be made on the GBA. In doing so, it becomes a completely new experience, and a new game.

I have played THPS2 on N64, PSX, and GBA. The N64 and PSX versions were identical in most respects, except that the buttons used were different , and the graphics were better on the N64.

On the GBA, the game was COMPLETELY different. The controls didn't work the same, the game was no longer in full 3D, and the game just felt different.

It may look different but a port is still a port, like it or not... no original idea behind it, that's the plain truth... Jedi Power Battles IS a port, learn to live with it... if you want to sum points to the GBA by altering the facts, well that's your choice, the truth remains the same...

[mattybones]

now thats childish fighting over what is a port and what is not

[_E_]

Ninja, thanks again for your list, but i think you were getting over excited with that Shepherd statment of yours :D .

Matty Bones : I dont call this a childish fight, the point that i was trying to say ( well in an indirect way,that is..) is that GBA is nothing but a reborn SNES. many SNES games are on the GBA and we felt that nintendo is not putting too many efforts to release/develop new INNOVATIVE games> Ninja is trying to proof us wrong, but since the list of the GBA is more than what i expected, I couldnt comment any furthur. There are lots of games i didnt play yet...

[Samor]

there ARE quite a lot of ports on the GBA, which is kinda annoying, but there's more new stuff coming now, and some ports are kinda special, like Silent Scope; it's neat (IMO) how Konami translated it to the small screen using sprite zooming .

It's too bad there's no new super mario bros game on gba yet, allthough the Wario land 4 makes up for that. It's of course awesome that the system got a new metroid and not a port.
But, there's no denying that a number of games are nothing more than quick ports, and compared to other consoles it's quite a large number (a tad too large if you ask me). The cream of crap has to be the port of Comix Zone ;)

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by mattybones
now thats childish fighting over what is a port and what is not

My, my... childish ? heh, not to me, but... do you want to enter the fight to take it to a more... "adult level" ? I'll continue to debate that point for the same reason Ninja does, we both fight to prove our point (well, at least that's what I do... I don't know for sure about Ninja...)...

As for Kingstar and Samor, I share your oppinion, I don't think that there is other system in the history of video games with such a big number of ports/remakes... but, time will tell...

[Ninjaa]

Kingstar, the sheppard comment was a joke.

Heh. Kaiser, if you call THPS2 a port, then you have some problems with your definition of a port. That's all I have to say on that matter.

Yes, there are a lot of ports on the GBA, but there are even more original games.

Think of it this way. If Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion both had the same plot, but the games remained the same otherwise, would you consider the game on the GBA to be a port?

[_E_]

Originally posted by Ninja
Kingstar, the sheppard comment was a joke.

Heh. Kaiser, if you call THPS2 a port, then you have some problems with your definition of a port. That's all I have to say on that matter.

Yes, there are a lot of ports on the GBA, but there are even more original games.

Think of it this way. If Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion both had the same plot, but the games remained the same otherwise, would you consider the game on the GBA to be a port?

man, I know its a joke,...I didnt take it seriously as much as you thought ;)

As for Metroid fusion and Metroid Prime,...well , since i played both, I dont think it safe to call Metroid Fusion a port ( but thats only my personal opinion) , however, games such as Zelda were STRAIGHT ports, it took me 3 hours to realise that i am playing on a GBA...

[Ninjaa]

Kingstar, I don't think it's debatable that Metroid Fusion wouldn't be a port. I was just saying that hyopthetically. But what I am disagreeing with Kaiser on is the games that undergo serious changes in the process of being made. Kaiser thinks that if the game features the same plot and name, then everything else is irrelevant. I am saying that some games become so changed that they cease to be the same game.

A perfect example would be THPS 2.

[Exophase]

Hm, interesting that you made that list, as it seems that most of the games can in fact be categorized into ports, remakes, or offshoots (either of existing games or movies, legitimate sequels do not fall under this category. "Sequels" like F-Zero: Maximum Velocity, which are practically remakes of the original and would probably not be very popular if they had been released on the original system, are).

As someone else once said GBA has primarily "Class B" and "Class C" games. Class B games that are either ports, remakes with relatively minimal adjustment (and there have been very few drastic overhauls for remakes, the closest ones probably being the FF remakes for WSC, but I might consider Super Mario Advance too), and offshoots of existing games or serieses, but not full-fledged sequels to said series. Class C games would be games with movie licenses, TV licenses, toy licenses, and possibly those games they seem to release for EVERY system that basically only get released for name recognition.

So I started running through the whole list categorizing the games, and after I was about 3/4th done realized that people probably wouldn't want to scroll through all that.. but it is worth mentioning that what's on there are largely games that are using name recognition from established games, but aren't quite sequels (ie, "me too" games that often flop)... lots of movie and TV licensed games, but everyone gets those.. lots of generic sports games, many of which share the same NAME as others on other systems... and a handful of pure ports that Ninja overlooked altogether.

What am I trying to say, that everything on GBA is a port? No. Although the number is way more than Ninja estimated (5%), and we shouldn't be chastized for being "misillusioned" in thinking otherwise (although Ninja would be hard pressed to convince me I'm misillusioned when that's not even a word)... what I am trying to say is that GBA has gotten a reputation as being a system where people can milk their established franchises, and historically this has been a method that has produced crap game after crap game.

What are we seeing on GBA?
Ports, remakes, licensed games, games that try to offer the same "experience" of existing popular games by rebranding the name on it (notice how very many games are "GBA versions" of previous PSX/DC/games. Of course they're not ports, because GBA is much to weak to port them)... we have the sports games that everyone gets (except the GBA versions would probably be invariably worse), some spinoff games, and a few legitimate sequels because the company is so pathetic that they can't deliver their main games for anything better (IE Natsume with Lufia 4).... GBA isn't a hotbed for original franchises, it's a platform for people to milk their existing franchises, and let's face it, much of the time games that are going on name recognition and lacking elsewhere (and I'll be the first to admit that Final Fantasy has fallen under this more than once). As many as 85% of the GBA's games may not be straight ports, but let's face it, most of them aren't worth anyone's money. Most of the GBA games that seem "worth it" to me are the ports and the remakes, and I'm never buying another one of those, not after Zelda DX. Sorry, I don't feel like buying the same thing twice. The very few that are appealing are ones that are banking strongly on an existing name like Final Fantasy Tactics, and this would be great but for the most part the ones with big names in them haven't moved the series to the system, but the games are offshoots from a series which has enjoyed its lifespan and continues to enjoy it on other systems, and if you want an example of what typical offshoots on handhelds can be like go play Lunar: Magic School or either of the Phantasy Star games for GameGear. The one or two serieses that have moved to GBA look like they've completely burned out and have probably already ruined their image entirely (Lufia 3 anyway? Never mind, Ninja probably likes that game.. oh, and Lufia 4 doesn't manage to impress me very much)

Is there anything wrong with this? Not necessarily. Handhelds target a different audience. But you can't deny this, nor can you attempt pitting something like GBA against any modern consoles (and I applaud Ninja for not putting it in this poll). The system is weaker, and most people don't want to put their full efforts towards a second rate, "casual" system. Of course EVERYONE wants to put their ports, remakes, spinoffs, and what have you on the system because it's relatively cheap and easy to do so. Why sell new games when you can sell names?

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

> (...) But what I am disagreeing with Kaiser on is the games that undergo serious changes in the process of being made. Kaiser thinks that if the game features the same plot and name, then everything else is irrelevant. I am saying that some games become so changed that they cease to be the same game.

About the name... it's quite irrelevant, about the plot... if Square tomorrow anounce that they will port the entire FF saga (with the exception off FFX) to the GC, BUT... with a 3D engine like the one of FFX... then under your concept you have 9 new games for the GC ? Sorry but all what you have is 10 ports of great games... that's all, read Exophase post as he explains things better than I do (but then again, who doesn't ?) like it or not THP2 is a port, as well as Jedi Power battles and the rest I mentioned...
Oh and BTW, I have to say that I agree with that marvelous post Exophase...

[Ninjaa]

... whatever. I'm tired of discussing this anyway. I'll give you the point because I don't feel like I'm losing anything, and this discussion is just boring me silly. I can't believe you guys actually care this much.

I proved my initial point, which is that about 5% of the games on GBA are SNES ports. I accomplished my goal, and if you guys want to take it further, do so. I will just let you all decide what's what, as I can't be arsed.

Kaiser, I suggest playing THPS 2 on GBA though.

Exophase, Majora's Mask is just as much a sequel to Ocarina of Time that Maximum Velocity is a sequel to F-Zero.

[Razor Blade]

Wow I can't beleive this post has 35 pages!

"can't we all just ... get along!?"

Hehehehe, I love that little saying. But really I mean no one will ever all agree on one console but i guess if you want my 2 cents here it is:

Games .....
Playstation 2 has all the RPG's
Gamecube has all the "Fun" games
X Box - well i don't care for it that much but it has some cool games if you like the pc style games.

Harware .... (here where it gets fun!)
Okay X Box is very powerful I mean Geforce 3 type card and 8 GB HDD wow! But have you seen the screens of The new res evil game for gamecube omfg! But no one still can beat GT3 i mean it is just gorgeous .. well that new lambergeeni (sorry for spelling) game looks really good but i'm sure GT4 will beat that omne also.

So here is MY verict.

I LOVE PS2. Played X Box or as some call it XXX Box, and well my personally don't care for it as i mentioned earlier; And gamecube i played it and like it but as for game selection i'm gonna go with ps2. I mean it has all the best titles (ALSO IMO) Final Fnatasy, Gran Turismo, And some pretty cool adventure games like Jak & Daxter, Ratchet and Clank. Well Oksay there ya go now I will wait for the ... What the's and the Who the hell are you to judge ... oh and cant forget you have no idea what your talking about--- hehe i love these kinds of posts. Okay my fingees are tired so i'll go now. Anyways Peace.

RIP: Blade_Jae ....

[Kaiser Sigma]

> ... whatever. I'm tired of discussing this anyway. I'll give you the point because I don't feel like I'm losing anything, and this discussion is just boring me silly. I can't believe you guys actually care this much.

If you only enjoy the fights that you choose then you will never enjoy a true fight... I don't care THAT much, I simply won't say "yes" because of nothing...

> I proved my initial point, which is that about 5% of the games on GBA are SNES ports. I accomplished my goal, and if you guys want to take it further, do so. I will just let you all decide what's what, as I can't be arsed.

Sure, but let's clarify that percentage (5%) is only of SNES ports... the number of PORTS (whatever platform, SNES, DC, PC... you name it) is bigger (way more bigger than 5%)...

> Kaiser, I suggest playing THPS 2 on GBA though.

Nice game, liked the Dreamcast version better... just because it is not 3D, and because the controls are different doesn't mean it is not a port... *smiles* that's a fact...
oh and BTW think of my example of the FF ports, maybe it'll help you to carry out a better role as a "shepherd"... heheheheh, sorry, couldn't hold that one...

[Exophase]

Sorry Ninja, it's just your wording was kinda ambigious:

If you would like, I can post a list of all GBA games out to date, and count how many are remakes and how many are not. I am guessing that about 5% of them would be remakes.

And add-on or not, 4 swords is a bonus feature you don't get on the SNES.

It seemed like you said 5% being remakes of games from any system, and I think other people misread it this way too, which is why we were suggesting otherwise.

Ah, and some of those GBA games you posted aren't out yet unless I'm terribly mistaken. ^_^

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Yeah, you are correct. Some of the games aren't out yet, some are rumored (I tried to filter those though), and some are already released. As you mentioned, I also missed some completely. You can blame this on the fact that it is almost impossible to find a complete list of GBA games, and I stated such earlier on.

And yes, I suppose my wording was a little off, and coupled with the fact that I did include some remakes from other systems in the remakes category, I can really see how you could misread that, and I admit that it's my fault. But I was originally just taking this up with Kingstar.

Anyways, let's move on shall we? ;)

Blade Jae, I'm not about to criticize anything you said, as for the most part, you are correct.

However, the Xbox isn't as powerful in hardware as you make out. That's the one thing against you I will say. :)

[Kaiser Sigma]

> But I was originally just taking this up with Kingstar.

My, my... he didn't even took the effort of making a counter list (specially one as beautiful as mine)... oh well, whatever... I just fight because it entertains me, anyway...

[Quatro]

> I just fight because it entertains me, anyway...

and this thread will be a long one ;)

[Ninjaa]

Will be? I think this is the longest active thread on NGEmu right now! And amazingly enough, it's still sort of on topic. :D

Kaiser, I fight out of neccessity, not for the sport of it. I have long since vowed to stand by Nintendo until the day I die. That promise is not going to be broken. Interestingly enough, it's always Final Fantasy VIII that comes up at this time.

"No matter what happens, even if you become the world's enemy I'll be your knight."

This is me in a nutshell. I don't have a lot of loyalties, and I am mostly introverted, but in a rare case, I will show EXTREME loyalty to an outside force. Nintendo isn't the only one for whom this quote holds true.

[Quatro]

> Will be? I think this is the longest active thread on NGEmu right now! And amazingly enough, it's still sort of on topic.

nah, dis aint the one... well in game discussion it is...

[Ninjaa]

Oops... I made a mistake... You are correct, I did mean Game Discussion... :D Sorry, I have had a lot to drink tonight. ;)

[Quatro]

better slow down on the drinks so you and kaiser will caught up each other again in this discussion... did you know that maybe half of the thread discussion post came from you two??? just a trivia :) but I like the way it goes... on the track ;)

[Kaiser Sigma]

> Kaiser, I fight out of neccessity, not for the sport of it. I have long since vowed to stand by Nintendo until the day I die. That promise is not going to be broken. Interestingly enough, it's always Final Fantasy VIII that comes up at this time.

The company to which I swore loyalty gave up, so now I fight just because it's in my nature... though I used to fight for the same reason back then...

> did you know that maybe half of the thread discussion post came from you two???

Is that true ? didn't stop to think about it... oh well, let's pick another subject to discuss...

[_E_]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
> But I was originally just taking this up with Kingstar.

My, my... he didn't even took the effort of making a counter list (specially one as beautiful as mine)... oh well, whatever... I just fight because it entertains me, anyway...

I said it before, and now i am saying it twice. There are many games on the list i didnt play. I cannot COMMENT on them. Simply, if i added a list on my own, I would just look stupid. I didnt know that the GBA had such library, otherwise, I would fight for my point.....

[_E_]

Okay, I think this is enough about the GBA. Its gone too far beyond the main topic. here is a comic from Penny Arcade to illustrate how heavy the Xbox controller is ;)

[_E_]

heh

[_E_]

sorry f i turned this into a screenshot thread, but these pics are too funny, i cannot resist putting them...hehehe

[Napro]

LOL thats really really funny :) lol

[Ninjaa]

I always liked the middle one the best. ;) Penny Arcade used to bash MS all the time. Those were the days. *sigh*

[Ninjaa]

Woo Hoo! Latest sales data from Japan is in.

Game Boy Advance: 145,900
PlayStation 2: 66,300
GameCube: 35,100
Xbox: 3,100
PlayStation: 2,100

GBA sales have dropped a lot since last week, and PS2 sales have shot up a little, but the GameCube is holding pretty steady. Xbox has been almost completely forgotten... :D

Zelda comes out next week in Japan. Things will start to get interesting then.

[Kaiser Sigma]

mmmm... let me see... the GBA sold more than the PS2 and the GC together ?

[Ninjaa]

Pokemon Ruby and Saphire just came out. ;)

[Kaiser Sigma]

Do ppl still buy Pokemon games ? geeez... no wonder we see so many Poke titles...

[Ninjaa]

Heh. The two Pokemon titles combined sold a million copies through Pre-orders alone. ;)

EDIT: Another interesting tidbit. The top 5 selling games in Japan right now are on Nintendo systems. 3 GBA, 2 GCN. So far Biohazard 0 is wasting Breath of Fire V. :D

[Kaiser Sigma]

Well... we will see what happen in America... japanese tastes differs greatly from ours...

[Ninjaa]

Oh yeah, Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 0 are wasting the competition here in America too, but the sales numbers are a lot less accurate. :D

[Kaiser Sigma]

We will see... Xenosaga has still to make its appearance, and I'm sure that it will be a good candidate for that top list...

[Ninjaa]

I'm sure it will. But can it outsell Zelda? That's a more difficult question. (It might in the US, but I doubt it in Japan)

[Exophase]

Xenosaga outsell Zelda in the US? Are you crazy? There's no way. Zelda is a very, very well known and popular franchise all over the world. I'd be surprised if Xenosaga had particularly high sales here at all, but there's no way it'll beat Zelda.. just.. no way. Zelda games are surefire top sellers for Nintendo, I mean, look at how well Ocarina of Time did, and that was for a system with a user base that was probably much smaller, relatively.

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

You are probably right. But most of the people I know seem to hate the Zelda graphics. But they are also intrigued by it as well, even if they don't like the graphics, as most of them know that Zelda kicks ass. I am seriously anxious about how Zelda is going to do in America. I have no idea how it's going to do in all actuality. There's no question that next week will mark a HUGE sale of GameCubes in Japan though.

[N1ghtw0lf]

they ahte zeldas graphics? i love cell shading...i think it makes games where they actually feel like your playing a game...some games look a little too real for me...i like that old fasion cartoony look that originated on dreamcast...

[Adair]

I haven't read any of the posts in this thread besides the first one.

Anyway here's my opinion: each console has its good points and its bad points. Each console has a handful of good games.

Xbox is my favorite because of the hardware. I think this gives it the most potential. Unfortunately there is a lack of support in Japan which I think will change in time and it has a lack of developers which will probably also change in time with M$'s deep pockets.

GameCube is great for nostalgia and is also bringing some nice new titles to the plate. It lacks a couple of things such as 5.1 speaker support and DVD playback, but on the other hand the lack of these features is reflected in its low price. Actually there's really not that much that I can complain about when it comes to the GC. It has very nice graphics considering the lack of raw power compared to Xbox.

Playstation2 has a handful of good games which is pretty disappointing to me considering how many games are available. Also there's no question(in my mind) that graphically the PS2 is in last place. However you do get a decent DVD player.

I will definitely have to say that Sony knows how to run an add campaign since there still beating the other 2 consoles in monthly sales, but I think this trend will end before too much longer. Nintendo is already catching up in Japan.

[Kraiger Drago]

God I love that Avatar, Adair. It makes me miss that show so much. It makes me sad that Comedy Central canned it. Oh well...

I wouldn't really say that Sony knows how to run an advert campaign; I think what it really boils down to is the simple fact that they got on the market first. They had a almost a 2 year head start on the other systems, and therefore grabbed most of the market. All of the major developers put out, and still put out stuff for it. If all the systems came out at around the same time, it certainly wouldve been a different story.

[Exophase]

If all the systems came out at the same time there also wouldn't have been nearly the power difference between the three, which is the main fuel for MS's XBox advertising campaign, and Sony would have still have the formidible advantage of both coming from and still sitting on the PSX.

I think what it REALLY boils down to is that even though both PSX and PS2 have had lackluster initial lineups (certainly PS2's was bad enough to keep me from buying one at that point) they've always promised big names in the future, and 9 times out of 10 they deliver on those promises. They're not like Nintendo who has a history of cancellations that dates long before the N64 was ever released. They're also not like MS in trying to buy up all the competition and throwing as much money as they can at the system.

- Exo

[Exophase]

Oh and, Ninja, what were you saying about Nintendo having all of the top 5 slots in Japan right now? This paints quite a different picture... http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2002/2236.html

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

That's a new chart. The one I mentioned was the one before this one, as the chart just got updated today. Check the date on that story. ;)

Breath of Fire V is doing miserably though it seems. Pity. I was hoping that the reviews to this point were wrong. I like Breath of Fire.

By the way, it's a very good time to get a GameCube or some more games it seems. I might be wanting Resident Evil sooner than I thought....

http://www.nintendo.com/coupon/coupon.pdf

[Kraiger Drago]

Oh man, If I had only held off on getting RE:0 one week. Oh well.

1. I started talking with my 12 year-old nephew about WHY he wanted an Xbox so badly (he got one in August, but he already had a PS2 at the time). His words were "PS2 just doesn't have any good games, and the Xbox is just better, and you can have 4 players with Xbox [without one of those multitaps or whatever they have for the PS2]."

I was absoutely ****ing shocked to hear this.

I couldn't reason with him on WHY he should continue to buy PS2 games; he would just not listen to me. So I asked him, jokingly, if his PS2 was such a big piece of crap, could I take it home with me. His reply: "sure".

So now I am the proud owner of a PS2, and I picked up a copy of Parasite Eve from the local EB (I wanted Rival Schools/2 too, but they were out) to celebrate.

2. Why the hell does Nintendo not advertise its RE games? I saw a GC commercial last night and it had a guy twisting on a hospital bed, and it would cut to like his skeleton and heart and various other body organs being exposed with a bubble of something running around under his skin. I think the tagline was something like "GC- you can't get it out of your system"; Anyhoo, point is, it was a fairly dark commercial (a bloody, beating, exposed heart in a ribcage, etc) [and the little ESRB ratings in the corner just said RP-T, which could just be from the screens they showed various games from, but its also like Nintendo denying that it has any M rated games]. We have THAT commercial, yet no RE commercials? I mean, a lot of people I have talked to about it does not even know that the games were Remade, let alone for the GC. I mean, even the electronics guy at Target was surprised to hear that they made a new game for it (and he put the dizamn thing on the shelf! of course, he couldve just been an idiot).

...and thus concludes tonite's mini-rant.

[Gamer1]

Game commercials is a real no go.

Nintendo found out that the Internet was a better advertiser than any other forms of advertisement could ever do, and at the fraction of the cost. Also, Nintendo heavily relies on word of mouth. hey, what makes the system better is the approval from your peers ;)

[Ninjaa]

Gamer1, I think you might have a very good point there.

Kraiger, we have stand-ups and everything in the video stores here advertising Resident Evil 0. Whenever I see the lifesize Rebecca standup at Blockbuster, I always just want to take her home with me....

The guy who works at Toys R Us is also a Nintendo fanboy, so there isn't much problem in finding out about Nintendo games. :D

[Razor Blade]

Yup I really don't like commercoials either and have any of you noticed they lie alot? Like on the x box one where they are playing tic tac toe on those roofs they say only gaming system with dvd playback and 5.1 surround. HAh! Yea right! I know for a fact that ps2 has those things number one: I have one and i have played dvd movies on it and number two: it says right on the console that ithas dts dvd and dolby!? I mean how can microsoft get away with that!?

[Kaiser Sigma]

Well... it shouldn't surprise anyone that fact about the comercials... it's obvious that they will make their product look better than the real thing... only young audiences may be caught by comercials...

[Razor Blade]

Man I don't even think young (hardcore) gamers can be caught up in that bul. But its the stupid ones like my dumbass friends who think they know everything but they don't ya know. Don't those people just piss you off!? I know they piss me off.

[Ninjaa]

Here's some new GameCube news for y'all that I think is worthy of posting.

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2901154,00.html

I think this is a pretty cool addition. I might be picking this game up. The dreamcast version was pretty good, but I was drunk when I was playing it, so I didn't get that far. :D

[Kaiser Sigma]

That isn't anything new... it was known that Ikaruga was going to be ported for the GC... as for the new features I've already heard something about it... the game is cool, so you won't regret buying it... specially since you don't see many games of that kind...

[systemid]

Kraiger your nephew is entitled to his opinion but then again he is 12 and knows nothing at all. There are kids like this at my school. I tell some people i have a gcn and they go why the hell would you get that it is for little kids. Then i hear them say i want an xbox. I cant understand why the hell they would want an xbox it has probably the least quality games and the good ones you can probably buy for the computer. My one friend always go's your *** why did you get a gcn and not an xbox? I would just like to punch him in the face.

[Drachenfels]

After a long consideration, I've decided to buy a xbox. ***cube just doesn't have a modchip.

[Ninjaa]

LMAO! Great reason. I have to agree with your decision. The only mods available for GameCube only allow you to play games from other regions after all. If having a mod chip that does other things is important to you, I encourage you, and all others who want such a device to buy an Xbox at your earliest opportunity.

[T.O.F.K.A.Z]

Well check this out then :

GSX - NGC Backups (http://gamecube.insidegamer.nl/ShowContent.asp?ContentID=11383)

I'll translate if needed (or Samor might me :wave: to Samor)

Mainly it's about NGC backups they have deviced a way to put the game on a hdd but they haven't made a backup that actually plays on the GC , but it will be there within the next three months according to the Enigma-team.

[systemid]

i dont understand why people think its neccesary to get a mod chip. Personally i wouldnt like risking messing up the system. Plus some of you in this forum are older and most likely have jobs why not just buy the games. If you want to get one for playing inports i could understand becuase i would like on efor that reason as well.
And even still i dont know how to speak japanese so i dont see the point in that either.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Man... I tire of this, just let them be... if they want an XBOX they have all the rights to get one, stop bashing ppl who like the XBOX, MS or both of them... stop acting as if having an XBOX would be a sin, I'm getting tired of your damn attitude...

[Drachenfels]

Originally posted by neoid2000
Plus some of you in this forum are older and most likely have jobs why not just buy the games.

70€ for a game is simply too ****ing much.

[Alias]

obviously this guy doesn't care about ripping people off. hopefully, in whatever line of work he pursues, people will do the same to him.

Even if this does make MS lose more money, Its still unfair for the developers who work so hard to make these games. Some people just don't understand how much work goes into developing and programming a game.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Drachenfels is well know for saying this kind of crap... however it surprises me that ppl sez "uh, modchips ?", when a while ago they bashed MS just because they took legal actions against modding... oh well...

[Alias]

You have to understand, they go with society... when something becomes uber popular, people start hating it just to not be n the norm. Hell I feel this way about MS and thought I would like to believe it's for their shoddy business practices, i can't help but dislike them for the above reason too.

I for one, hate modchips on any system, because they always lead to piracy. I never really appreciated programs in general until I started programming serious programs myself.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Oh well... that does it... I criticized piracy a long ago, and all what I got was a bunch of ppl (actually 75% of the Ngemu users) saying that modchips and piracy are unavoidable... I hate modchips for the piracy issue but in the end it's just in you, wether you use it for piracy or just to play import games...

[systemid]

I dont know if getting imports is bad actally more or less you rip yourself off having to pay a whole lot of extra money on shipping and stuff and also you usually buy the game when it comes to whichever country you live in, and the whole language barrier. Whats the point of playing a game when you have no clue of whats going on?

[Ninjaa]

neoid, in some cases you don't need to be able to read it in order to play the game. Some people have imported Ura Zelda, and have a lot of fun with it, because they know what's going on. Super Mario Sunshine is also such a case. you don't need to be able to read it to have fun.

I have actually given serious thought about importing Kuru Kururin for GBA on a number of occasions. It just seems like a really fun game to me.

[systemid]

I understand for an action game how it would be good because of less dialouge but many people import rpg's and that is somthing i dont understand. And once again most of these games will come to america or where ever if you wait a bit.

[Ninjaa]

I wouldn't mind having my hands on a SFC version of Chrono Trigger... *drool*. But I don't know enough Japanese to play an RPG by a long shot, so I can see your point.

Here's some Xbox mathematics that I thought was rather interesting. ;)

http://red-mercury.com/mmceo/mmceo_current.html

[Quatro]

"The economics of the XBox don't add up now, and they get worse with time. Sony and Nintendo can kill the XBox on cost alone. The "software subsidies" that Microsoft expected are a myth. Game console prices will continue to drop, from $199 to $149, then on down to $99. Will Microsoft ever make it to the $99 level of this game? We'll see. According to XBox economics, it all depends on how much money they are willing to lose."

nice conclusion... but are they really up to it to go for $99??? What do you guys think??

[Ninjaa]

I think it's entirely possible, but probably not until after this Christmas. The price of the Xbox has been unofficially dropped in Japan by the resellers due to lousy sales, so it's entirely possible.

It just depends on how badly Sony and Nintendo want to get rid of Microsoft.

I really liked the part where the guy said that each Xbox user would have to buy 20 games in order to pay for the console. :D No wonder MS is going to such extremes against modchips. They are fighting for their lives. :D

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Quatro
"The economics of the XBox don't add up now, and they get worse with time. Sony and Nintendo can kill the XBox on cost alone. The "software subsidies" that Microsoft expected are a myth. Game console prices will continue to drop, from $199 to $149, then on down to $99. Will Microsoft ever make it to the $99 level of this game? We'll see. According to XBox economics, it all depends on how much money they are willing to lose."

nice conclusion... but are they really up to it to go for $99??? What do you guys think??

Of course its possible. Microsft made a net profit of 85% with Windows last year,

It lost about 40 million dollars in the Xbox, And MSN, But made a profit of 850 Million dollars last financial report due to windows alone. and 250 Million off Microsoft Office.

The money they are losing on the xbox, Is Pennies to Microsoft. They can afford to drop millions of dollars into the Xbox so long as they are generating hefty Funds elsewhere. As there software venture is more than enough to fund them in there other deparments.

They are just making TONS of money via Windows right now. 85% profit margin is just insane, This is even with all the people who pirate Windows. The plain and simple fact is, Windows now sells itself. And So does Microsoft Office. They can afford the losses.

[Quatro]

well they really don't belong in the console scen in the first place... its really hard to get higher percentage in the market without those aggresive moves...