PS2 vs GameCube vs XBox

[Ninjaa]

F-3582, The GameCube has two analog shoulder buttons, with a digital click at the bottom. In essence, each shoulder button can perform a double function. (This is used to a very good effect in games such as Rogue Leader).

The face buttons are not analog, thank god. (I have bad experiences with analog face buttons)

[ChrisRay]

It really looks like Microsoft is taking Sega's stance on console online gaming.

The xbox currently stands as the best online gaming console there is. Expecially once Xbox live gets released. With tremendous support from many titles. Xbox could easily become just as online capable as a PC is for gaming.

This is why I want an American company in the gaming industry. Online gameplay is so big here It's not even funny. With continued support for the online gameplay (Something Nintendo And Sony aren't persuing very much) People could very easily be swayed by the online capability.

You can claim that Sega was interested in online play (which is true. But the japanese market didn't see as much use for it as the US market. (compare Dreamcast 33.6 Modem to the 56k Modem on the US dreamcast)

I think online console gameplay has been the future ever since the Sega Saturn netlink. After seeing it fail on the Sega Saturn. And Become somewhat Successful on the dreamcast. I'd really like to see Xbox take it to the next level.

Maybe 3rd times a charm.


P.S. I realize that PS2 and Gamecube will be broadband capable. But they don't view it as the future.

But I have always "felt" online gaming was the future. Expecially for the anti social ;)

[Ninjaa]

ChrisRay, I find it kind of hard to accept that Xbox is paving the way for online gaming. They do have a fairly good plan, but there is just one little problem. They have no support for dialup users. That's alienating a HUGE portion of the market.

[F-3582]

Originally posted by Ninja
The face buttons are not analog, thank god. (I have bad experiences with analog face buttons)

Do you mean the PS2 controller?

[Ninjaa]

Yeah, actually I do. I played MGS2 on the PS2, and every time I tried to fire the gun, it wouldn't fire. I got used to it eventually, but there would still be that odd time that I would pull out the gun and not fire. It became a pet peeve of mine.

[Quatro]

Originally posted by Ninja
ChrisRay, I find it kind of hard to accept that Xbox is paving the way for online gaming. They do have a fairly good plan, but there is just one little problem. They have no support for dialup users. That's alienating a HUGE portion of the market.

mainly their target market is the US first... coz in other parts like in Asia, The Xbox does not post as a contender where PS2 and GC takes the majority of the console shares...

[Syed Fawad]

For the Gmaepad part:

IMO the PS2 Dualshock2 is the best controller. The pressure sensitive feature IMO is an excellent addition. MGS2, GTAVC, GT3, etc use the feature quite well.


every time I tried to fire the gun, it wouldn't fire. I got used to it eventually, but there would still be that odd time that I would pull out the gun and not fire. It became a pet peeve of mine.


That is one of the funniest story I've heard :D. I may add it to my sig :D. May be the DS2 you had was a bit defective. You were using a rented PS2 which may be quite weared down.

As for the online games, I don't see how the XXXBOX LEADS it. May be Chrisray you should better do a little research on PS2's online capabilities. But I don't care about online games. I don't care about'em at all.

[Quatro]

do online game of PS2 a click in your area??? just wanna know coz our country is still in the dial up era so we don't know much of it :)

[metal_ash]

dial up era??? are you sure quatro?

[ChrisRay]

ChrisRay, I find it kind of hard to accept that Xbox is paving the way for online gaming. They do have a fairly good plan, but there is just one little problem. They have no support for dialup users. That's alienating a HUGE portion of the market.

Dial up is all but dead. Even I as recent dial up user know this. The only place Dial up still makes sense is in little cities. And it will very quickly be replaced.

Broadband has become available almost everywhere now. If you don't have broadband there's either 2 reasons. A: Your fooled into thinking it costs more than Dial up. Or B: It's just not available in your area quite yet.

I might agree with that philosphy if this were 2 years ago. It's not. In Another year. broadband will pretty much be available everywhere in the US. Microsoft target audience.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad
For the Gmaepad part:

IMO the PS2 Dualshock2 is the best controller. The pressure sensitive feature IMO is an excellent addition. MGS2, GTAVC, GT3, etc use the feature quite well.



That is one of the funniest story I've heard :D. I may add it to my sig :D. May be the DS2 you had was a bit defective. You were using a rented PS2 which may be quite weared down.

As for the online games, I don't see how the XXXBOX LEADS it. May be Chrisray you should better do a little research on PS2's online capabilities. But I don't care about online games. I don't care about'em at all.


Research? Sony isn't supporting a server wide network like Gamespy. Microsoft Live is similar to the gamespy network except its completely dedicated to microsoft xbox title. Sony and Nintendo have not even come close to that.

[Ninjaa]

ChrisRay, that's the US only. A console will have difficulty surviving in the US market alone, especially if that console isn't the #1 selling console, which I am sure you are aware Xbox is not.

There are still many areas of the world that don't have access to broadband, or it hasn't caught on yet. Japan is the most noteworthy.

And even many US and Canada residents still use dialup. It's far from dead.

EDIT: GameCube may not have any sort of online plan, but they do have the only online console game worth mentioning at this point in time. It's selling well, so Nintendo might consider creating an online network. As for Sony, they have the rights to Everquest IIRC.

[ChrisRay]

ChrisRay, that's the US only. A console will have difficulty surviving in the US market alone, especially if that console isn't the #1 selling console, which I am sure you are aware Xbox is not.

Please refer back to my sentiments towards the japanese market. And how much I care about the state its in.

And also look at my reasons for why the US canada resistents still use Dial up.

They either think it's cheaper or B: Just haven't got quite it in those rural areas. Within the next year that will be completely aleviated. Dial up is Dead.

It's dying a slow death. But it's going the way of the dinasaur.

The kind of bandwith needed to play games today require broadband access. Even if it did have modem support. It wouldn't do anything except slow down online gameplay for Xbox users. Why would microsoft support a technology thats being phased out.

[ChrisRay]

As for Sony, they have the rights to Everquest IIRC.

Not entirely. verant interactive has the rights to Everquest. Verant interactive is a branch of sony thats not affiliated with sony. Similar to Sega Soft.

[Ninjaa]

You see? that's my whole problem with that point. George Lucas is a great man, and he thought that all theatres would be equipped with digital projectors by the time Episode II was released. It just didn't happen.

Dialup may be unpleasant, but there are still MANY who use it. Will it be phased out? Perhaps. Maybe even in time for the Xbox 3.

Your hatred for the Japanese market is irrelevant. A console MUST become accepted by the Japanese in order to survive. It's that simple.

[ChrisRay]

Your hatred for the Japanese market is irrelevant. A console MUST become accepted by the Japanese in order to survive. It's that simple.

Then explain the PC game market. It's neither been accepted nor embraced by the japanese game market. And it still is strong in the US.

They are just starting to embrace the market and they have not even touched it.

Just because you want games that are made in Japan does not mean I do or they are needed. A Market can survive fine without Japanese market. But Microsoft is still trying to enter it. Thats all that matters.


You see? that's my whole problem with that point. George Lucas is a great man, and he thought that all theatres would be equipped with digital projectors by the time Episode II was released. It just didn't happen.

I guess with that way of thinking. You also think that stations and networks shouldn't reach the digital standard by the specified timeframe apointed to them.

Clinging onto technology like Dial up for online gaming is a mistake. it only limits the potential of it. Which defeats the entire point.

[Syed Fawad]

WTF? I wanna live in Antarctica and play games.

C'mon pl get real. I don't wanna look at who has plans for what. Online capabilites are least imprtant on my list. They aren't the main reason for a console's success at least in this generation. Online games are quite far from established and XXXBOX2 is rumoured to be due out in 05. now what?

OK I admit (somehow just for a point) that XXXBOX rules the online games. Is that enough for its success?

[ChrisRay]

OK I admit (somehow just for a point) that XXXBOX rules the online games. Is that enough for its success?

Of course not. But it's definately a very arousing factor expecially to the US gamer.

[Ninjaa]

ChrisRay, I do believe you are more blinded by your hate of the Japanese than I am by my hatred for Microsoft. Consoles are very different than PCs. They appeal to a completely different market. The problem is that MS is trying to attract PC gamers rather than console gamers. I suppose that fits with your theory that Xbox can survive without Japan, but I hardly think that it can survive on the US alone even now. Besides, it's still a LONG way from #1.

And like Syed said, online gaming on consoles is still untried and hardly a secure business approach. The last poll on Gamefaqs should tell you that much.

[Syed Fawad]

Not arousing enough when you look at the lineups of the consoles, XXBOX ain't even close. BTW I just saw that Twisted Metal Black Online is released which makes the online RELEASED games for PS2 around 6.

I donno but IMO it is a good idea to unfold the games which are about to be released within an year. It helps a buyer decide which console is more promising and is likely to fill its promise.

[ChrisRay]

ChrisRay, I do believe you are more blinded by your hate of the Japanese than I am by my hatred for Microsoft. Consoles are very different than PCs. They appeal to a completely different market. The problem is that MS is trying to attract PC gamers rather than console gamers. I suppose that fits with your theory that Xbox can survive without Japan, but I hardly think that it can survive on the US alone even now. Besides, it's still a LONG way from #1.

I've stated several times that I have an opinion of the japanese market. And its merely an opinion. I'm not trying to represent that as a fact.

You make it sound like trying to attract both PC gamers and Console gamers is bad. It's a diifferent aproach mind you.


but I hardly think that it can survive on the US alone even now. .

Rhetoric Opinion.


And like Syed said, online gaming on consoles is still untried and hardly a secure business approach. The last poll on Gamefaqs should tell you that much.

Beg to differ. The unlimited potential of online gaming is becoming blatantly obvious. Expecially recently. More and More developers are starting to see this.

Consoles have always been late bloomers. They are always one step behind PCS. It has been successful elsewhere. paticularly the PC market. PCS games "aren't" successful unless they are online anymore.

Online games will be in demand. Someone has to set the standards. Once again. The future is now. Microsoft and Sony see this.

If you don't believe console online games are successful. I suggest you go review some of the online games available for the dreamcast that sold extremely well.

Including Sega Sports titles,
Quake
Unreal
Daytona USA.
Phantasy Star Online (even you pointed out this game is successful)

Squaresoft is embracing it. Sony is embracing it. Microsoft is embracing it. Sega is embracing it. By the time the Xbox2 and PS3 are released. Online gameplay is going to be as much of an important selling factor for these consoles as graphics and gameplay are right now.

[Ninjaa]

Square can embrace online gaming as much as they want, but that doesn't change the fact that FFXI is selling pathetically.

Time will tell whether online gaming on consoles becomes a success. I know that I am not that enthusiastic about it. I have no plans about getting PSO or a broadband adaptor for my GameCube.

[Syed Fawad]

I didn't get a reply to a particular post of mine.......


Originally posted by Syed Fawad
OKAy this thread has gone a little complicated for me.

Chrisray, do me a favour. Please state in plain English (my English ain't all that good so I am requesting this) why you like the Microsoft XBox referred by me as XXXBOX. Please. Thank you. Remeber what makes or breaks a console are the games on it. I don't mind anyone liking, loving or hating the XXXBOX. I just need to find a valid reason as to why one would like an XXXBOX. This is not an offensive post if it may seem so. Apologies if anyone is offended.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad
Not arousing enough when you look at the lineups of the consoles, XXBOX ain't even close. BTW I just saw that Twisted Metal Black Online is released which makes the online RELEASED games for PS2 around 6.

I donno but IMO it is a good idea to unfold the games which are about to be released within an year. It helps a buyer decide which console is more promising and is likely to fill its promise.

You seem to think I am stating sony is not aware of the online trend blooming. They are most definately aware of it and are acknowledge its existence. And are taking steps to be prepared for it.

I'm stating that the microsoft has the advantage of starting internet equipped. Also having the first console gaming network similar to gamespy is an important jump in the right direction for online gaming.

Sega didn't market there online gaming correctly. Nor did they provide this kind of service. This is one of the most awesome ideas for console gaming.

[ChrisRay]

Square can embrace online gaming as much as they want, but that doesn't change the fact that FFXI is selling pathetically

This is simply a lousy game. Instead of learning to use an existing engine to develop this game. They created a paticularly lousy engine with terrible gameplay.

This games failures are squaresofts own fault.

[Ninjaa]

ChrisRay, FFVIII and IX were also god-awful but people still bought the games. FFXI is selling worse than some crap I peeled off the bottom of my shoe.

Anyways, that being said, Metroid Prime rocks, and I am going to bed.

[ChrisRay]

ChrisRay, FFVIII and IX were also god-awful but people still bought the games. FFXI is selling worse than some crap I peeled off the bottom of my shoe.

These games had a selling point that FF XI does not. Graphics. The engine for this game game is so bad it looks remarkably terrible on any system or port of it.

Squaresoft also has no idea on how to design a MMORPG, These games require something thats just not available in any kind of console RPG available. And it's a hard lesson squaresoft is going to have to learn.

Squaresoft would do well to learn from Microsoft (Asherons Call) And Sony(Verant Interactive's Everquest) on just how to design a proper online RPG.

[Ninjaa]

You seem to forget just how popular the Final Fantasy name is. Every other recent game has sold a million copies in the first week. And I would hardly say that the graphics are that big of a turn off for the game.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Ninja
You seem to forget just how popular the Final Fantasy name is. Every other recent game has sold a million copies in the first week. And I would hardly say that the graphics are that big of a turn off for the game.


I haven't forgotten. As I stated before. The gameplay elements of this game are terrible. So terrible that no one would want to pick up and play it. It's "Not" enjoyable. This comes down to squaresoft having no knowledge on how to create an online RPG.

Name doesn't neccasarily means something will sell. Remember the Final Fantasy The Spirits Within?

Something is either good enough or its complete crap. FF XI is complete crap in almost everyone's eyes who's seen it.

[Syed Fawad]

Another reason why ppl won't buy FFXI is because it is online and costs too much. Well at least that is my case.

And please, don't try to neglect my earlier request.

[ChrisRay]

Syed I'm not quite sure I understand the question. I thought I've answered it.

I like the xbox because its

A: An American Company

B: Because it's built in online features

C: I've stated several times that game taste will vary from person to person So I simply will not get into an argument with anyone over games. There are games I like that are exclusive to microsoft. There are games I like that are exclusive to Sony. I'm sure there are games I like that exclusive to Nintendo. It's preference and I wont get into a discussion about which consoles have more games.

You either buy a console because you like a select few games or not. This is exactly the reason I have a Sega Saturn. Not because it's library is huge. But because it has a few games which I absolutely adore and cannot be found anywhere else.

[Syed Fawad]

Well you got a nice reason to like XXXBOX but I don't think anyone would mind to see your choice of games. I guess I stated my choice too. I believe I have the oddest taste around here. So I don't think it is bad to state which games you like. I would love to know the games you like as IMO they are the ONLY things that matter for a console.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Give it time, that things (the XXXBOX) will have a good line up before you even realize it... even more since I heard rumors of Shenmue III going XXXBOXclusive...

[Syed Fawad]

And even a bigger rumout about M$ buying Capcom. If that happens, XXXBOX will take over the lead from GC.

[Kaiser Sigma]

We will have to wait... but I am sure that in due time it will grow to be quite a powerful machine (even if it comes from a horrible company such as MS)...

[_E_]

hmm,....Personally, I dont care about the origin of the console. Its true that i voted for the GC and I still prefer Dreamcast over all these three ( Xbox, PS2, GC),but when i have to buy a console, I have to make the smart move and go for the PS2. I have to face the fact that still, sony is on top of the console industry. Meaning that the PS2 wont die that easily. So i can play with it for a few more years. ( Just like the psx right now, there still a few games coming up for it). I dont think a "PSIII" will come up until 2006, and even if a Xbox II was released, the popularity of the PS2 will say the same............

[ChrisRay]

Well like I said. I steer clear of any console system until its been out about 4 years. then I can decide whether I want it. It's not a matter of not wanting it sooner. But by that time there's plenty of cheaper software for the system. And the consoles themselves will drastically drop in price.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Depends... you risk yourself of losing some great games... I never had the chance to get Shining Force Scenarios II & III (yeah I know, they weren't released on america, yet I can't get the import version... it's too rare)....

[ChrisRay]

Well if your a serious collector these games aren't normally too hard to find when you look around. but I admit I mainly buy used video games with the exception of games like the Lunar Series. Which I knew were collectors editions to begin with.

[Syed Fawad]

Usually when a console runs into its 4th year, I tend to sell it, upgrade my rig and get the PC gems which outshine the console games in every respect. And also try to find the latest emulator ;)

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad
Usually when a console runs into its 4th year, I tend to sell it, upgrade my rig and get the PC gems which outshine the console games in every respect. And also try to find the latest emulator ;)

This is definately very true. PC is definately my favorite gaming rig. if I have to choose between a PC upgrade or buying a new console. PC always comes first.

[Syed Fawad]

However in my case, PC doesn't always come in first place. There were lotsa gems on the PS2 this year that were just too much to miss. Also the emulator was and is far off so anytime before 2004-05 I get a choice between PC and Console, it'll be a console.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Well, no matter what they say, the PC will always be the most powerful one...

[Ninjaa]

I am a console gamer. I will always put my money towards a console first. PCs may be more powerful, but they just don't have enough games worth playing. I do try to keep my computer in a mid to high range though.

[ChrisRay]

Consoles just don't offer the power and diversity for me to call them my favorite gaming system.

[Ninjaa]

I've lost faith in PC gaming since every game started to become an FPS. There's just nothing left for me.

[ChrisRay]

There are some pretty decent RPGS for the PC. IceWind Dale Series. Neverwinter Nights, Baldurs Gate, Dungeon Siege. I admit I wish there were more.

Online RPGS have pretty much taken over the normal RPG market unfortunately on PCS, I wouldn';t have a problem with that if they all didn't cost so much money to play.

[Ninjaa]

These are the PC games I still care about. (I have never really cared for PC RPGs.)

Wing Commander
Freespace
Monkey Island
Starcraft
Warcraft (although I haven't bought the new one yet :D)
Master of Orion

[ChrisRay]

Hmm Grandia 2 is also available for the PC. When I consider a PC's software library I take into account emulation as well. Thats the thing about PCS. the diverability of them is astounding. And they are basically limitless with proper programming.

However, There are some really good FPS which aren't just about Shoot em up Doom games.

One really good example is the No One Lives forever series. While its First Person. It's not really a shooter. Even PCGamer classifies it as action.

The AI in this game is incredible. Can hide from enemies to evade them, set traps. its an innovative title.

Warcraft 3 was ok. I hate real time strategy.

Games for the PC which I really like are.

Diablo 2
Icewind Dale
Neverwinter Nights
No One Lives forever 2
Need for Speed Hot Persuit
Need for Speed Hot persuit 2
Need For Speed High Stakes
GTA 3 (I think its ok not my fav but playable)
Disciples: Sacred Lands
Disciples: Dark Prophecy
Grandia 2

Those are some of my favorites right now. UT2003 is ok but I can enjoy the demo forever, lol

I "used" to like the FF games on the PC but emulation surpassed them a while ago.

I "used" to play Everquest. But the game is way to addicting and can destroy your social life/work life/sex life. Yes that bad.


It's a real shame PC wasn't included in this poll as I think its just as capable of being a gamers choice for games.

[Ninjaa]

ChrisRay, I think you have missed my whole point. PCs are only really good for emulating what consoles supply. They have no games of their own really. Including a PC on this poll would go against the very essence of what I am fighting for. That's partially the reason I hate the Xbox so much. It's just not a console.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Ninja
ChrisRay, I think you have missed my whole point. PCs are only really good for emulating what consoles supply. They have no games of their own really. Including a PC on this poll would go against the very essence of what I am fighting for. That's partially the reason I hate the Xbox so much. It's just not a console.

Erm Did you just miss everything I wrote? I think you should just go back and look at the PC game library. it's easily bigger than the original Playstations library and its not limited by upgrading Operating Systems (there are a few exception)

I just listed several games "for the PC". I said emulation was different. And it was just an example of how PCS are not limited to anything of that category.

I could argue with you for days about how the xbox is just as much a console as your gamecube is. But I won't. I'm tired of arguing with you about it.

You fought for hours to make this a sticky thread but it seems that anything that goes against your "vision" is intolerable. You treatevery opinion that you do not like as unacceptable. Just take a look at that.

I could discuss for hours with you why a PC is just as good for gaming as a console without even bringing up emulation. The problem is you don't like that because it goes against your "vision"

But seriously next time you go to best buy. Take a look at those huge rows of PC games and tell me PCS are not a gamers machine.

[Ninjaa]

ChrisRay, I am not in the mood to start a flame war with you, so I will just drop it now.

Let's get this back on topic. We are talking about consoles, not PCs, and we are supposed to respect other people's opinions, not assault them on a personal level. Got that?

[ChrisRay]

We are talking about consoles

I think the PC is just as capable as a console for games anyway. Considering how much you fought for this kind of thread. You certainly do attack anyone who presents an idea your in oposition to yours.

Also I think you should take into account that the you claim the xbox is not a console. Tell me Ninja. What defines a game, Consoles, Piece of hardware to you? I'm seriously wondering because you treat everything in this thread liks its your way or the high way. I respect your opinion on the matter. But you have never, even remotely respected mine.

So you understand me. I will discuss the validity of PC and Xbox gaming with anyone interested in discussing it.

and we are supposed to respect other people's opinions, not assault them on a personal level. Got that?

I'm sorry but this is the pot calling the kettle black. I'm sorry you feel that way. But I think your the one whos on the defensive side. Not me. And you really have no reason to be.

[Ninjaa]

No further comment on this issue. I want the thread to remain open.

Back to the debate at hand though, what do people here think of the new Capcom development? 5 new games only for GameCube sounds pretty darned good to me. They sound like some pretty respectable games too. ;)

[Quatro]

yeah knock the flame thing ok... don't want this thread to be closed...

on ninja's question: I think the less games they release, the more good it is... well I mean is that they get a lot of time devoted to a certain game project than releaseing many games with is not a "click" in the market... but of course, it will all come to the preference of teh gamers out there, wether they like it or not...

[Ninjaa]

Me and ChrisRay have worked out an agreement via PMs. I just want to say one last thing however.

2) No off-topic posts. This discussion is about the consoles, and which is better.
This does not include PCs.

on ninja's question: I think the less games they release, the more good it is... well I mean is that they get a lot of time devoted to a certain game project than releaseing many games with is not a "click" in the market... but of course, it will all come to the preference of teh gamers out there, wether they like it or not...
Well, Capcom is known for making pretty good games. It's true that 5 games could be a little much, but time will tell how these ones turn out. I have high hopes at any rate.

We still have yet to hear from Genius Sonority too. I can't wait to hear what they are doing. ;)

[Quatro]

that's good to hear...

[Syed Fawad]

I still want to know who the 6 XXBOX voters are and I still can't understand why one can state XXXBOX as a top console on a general level.

[_E_]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad
I still want to know who the 6 XXBOX voters are and I still can't understand why one can state XXXBOX as a top console on a general level.

Its not a top console. Its one of the best 3, but its not a topseller,......yet...

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad
I still want to know who the 6 XXBOX voters are and I still can't understand why one can state XXXBOX as a top console on a general level.


I think this post sums it up best. First Sentence.


Originally posted by Exophase
I don't exactly want to add fuel to the fire but if _I_ were an XBox fan I'd probably be too intimidated to post in this thread, you know? I think ChrisRay's made some good points and his opinion is certainly valid, so.. yeah.

- Exo


No matter what anyone says, The xbox users would get ganged up here. And I can't blame them for not wanting to argue with some of the people here. It doesn't bother me any.

Some people are more easily offended and don't wish to argue about such things.

[Demigod]

Originally posted by Ninja
ChrisRay, I think you have missed my whole point. PCs are only really good for emulating what consoles supply. They have no games of their own really. Including a PC on this poll would go against the very essence of what I am fighting for. That's partially the reason I hate the Xbox so much. It's just not a console. Oh my god, this is the most ignorant post I've ever read. Ninja, you are clueless.

In my definition a console is a dedicated piece of (static) hardware optimized for playing games. By that definition the Xbox is just as much of a console as the Gamecube. If you hate Microsoft then that's fine, but don't bash the PC because of them.

To think of the PC as not a gaming machine is just wrong. The PC has more gaming power than consoles will ever have. Most console -> PC ports are ridiculed because they are just so primitive. For most PC -> console ports, however the developers have to tone the game down due to the limited abilities of the console. I mean the Dreamcast couldn't even run Quake 3 Arena at full frames while it flies on a Celeron 600 & TNT2 on a PC. Think the Gamecube or PS2 can handle a game like Doom 3? I think not (although the Xbox might). The PC also has a huge library of games, much more so than any console. Sure most of the games go unnoticed (only about 1 out of every 20 games is note worthy) but they're there.

[Ninjaa]

Demigod, what you say is true, but I think you misunderstand me.

Xbox contains a mostly PC-based architecture, and their business plan to this point has been decidedly PC-like in nature. That's what I was referring to.

I am well aware that the PC is more than capable of being a gaming machine, but the genre types on the PC are decidedly limited, and as a result I find the pickings very slim when I go to buy games for my PC.

As for Doom III not being able to run on PS2 or GameCube, I think you are mistaken. Doom III is OpenGL based I believe. Xbox is DirectX. That would create a lot of difficulty in porting I believe to begin with.

Also, I may be mistaken, but a lot of Doom III's graphical splendor comes from bump mapping correct? I believe I recall hearing once that the bump mapping capabilities on the GameCube were top notch. However, the T&L engine is a little weak (as in not programmable), so there might be merit to what you say. However, it must also be noted that consoles run with a fraction of the resolution of a PC, and 60fps isn't as neccessary as it is on a PC monitor.

I just remember a time when there were a bunch of nay-sayers who said that FF7 wasn't possible on PC.... Now the tables seem to be turned. I seriously don't think the Xbox is THAT much more powerful than the GCN.

[Demigod]

Originally posted by Ninja
Xbox contains a mostly PC-based architecture, and their business plan to this point has been decidedly PC-like in nature. That's what I was referring to.
But you can't just rule out the XBOX because it has a PC-like architecture. PC gamers are gamers too, although their tastes are largely different from console gamers.

Originally posted by Ninja
I am well aware that the PC is more than capable of being a gaming machine, but the genre types on the PC are decidedly limited, and as a result I find the pickings very slim when I go to buy games for my PC.True, the PC is mostly FPS games, although there are the occasional RTS (Warcraft 3). Most developers choose FPS because they're proven to be very effective. There aren't as many space sims as there used to be though (FreeSpace 2 was a masterpiece) and most RPGs are on-line. Still, there are plenty of good titles to choose from.

Originally posted by Ninja
As for Doom III not being able to run on PS2 or GameCube, I think you are mistaken. Doom III is OpenGL based I believe. Xbox is DirectX. That would create a lot of difficulty in porting I believe to begin with.John Carmack himself has stated that Doom 3 will be ported to the XBOX, and in all its graphical glory. The Nvidia chip the XBOX uses surely has OpenGL extensions as well (although I don't know if MS included OpenGL support in it). I have some doubts about it a XBOX port of Doom 3 (last time I checked JC detests Microsoft and DirectX) but from a technical POV I think it's entirely possible.

Originally posted by Ninja
Also, I may be mistaken, but a lot of Doom III's graphical splendor comes from bump mapping correct? I believe I recall hearing once that the bump mapping capabilities on the GameCube were top notch. However, the T&L engine is a little weak (as in not programmable), so there might be merit to what you say. However, it must also be noted that consoles run with a fraction of the resolution of a PC, and 60fps isn't as neccessary as it is on a PC monitor.Yes, Doom 3 makes extensive use of bump-mapping and stencil shadows to achieve its effect. John Carmack stated the game technology is based around the original GeForce and Radeon technologies. I don't know what features the PS2 and Gamecube's GPUs have but the design of the Doom 3 engine is very PC-esque (which is why I think the game will run well on the XBOX). It may be possible for a Gamecube port but JC hasn't made any comments on that.

Originally posted by Ninja
I just remember a time when there were a bunch of nay-sayers who said that FF7 wasn't possible on PC.... Now the tables seem to be turned. I seriously don't think the Xbox is THAT much more powerful than the GCN. I think the people who said that had the Pentium processor in mind (although FF7 runs well on a Pentium as well). I think 3D acceleration really set the pace for PC gaming and allowed it to match and surpass consoles. Gotta hand it to 3dfx, they did some good work.

[Ninjaa]

Agreed on all points. I think that what sums this up most effectively is this.

PC gamers are gamers too, although their tastes are largely different from console gamers.

I don't mean to exclude PC gamers, but this discussion is in fact about consoles. I established that in the first post. The key here is that PC gamers and console gamers rarely see eye to eye on anything.

I do have a pretty good collection of PC games, and some of them are very good. However, I do not think that the PC is as great of a gaming platform as a console, in spite of it's technological superiority.

That's really one of the key differences between PC gamers and console gamers. PC Gamers primarily look at the specs of eachother's PCs in order to determine who has the better gaming system. Console gamers normally look at the game libraries, and see what is really the pick of the litter. Whoever has the most good toys wins. ;)

If you were to ask me what the greatest gaming system ever was, I would probably answer with either the SNES, PSX, or NES. Each of those systems not only had massive amounts of games from every genre, but there were stunning amounts of quality games. When I compare the greatness of any one of those systems to my PC, my PC doesn't stand a chance. Of course it's true that the PC can emulate each of those systems, but I think that's a cheap way out. Emulation wouldn't exist without those consoles.

Anyways, I am glad we could work that out. :)

[ChrisRay]

True, the PC is mostly FPS games, although there are the occasional RTS (Warcraft 3). Most developers choose FPS because they're proven to be very effective. There aren't as many space sims as there used to be though (FreeSpace 2 was a masterpiece) and most RPGs are on-line. Still, there are plenty of good titles to choose from.

Thats the thing. Just because its different. Doesn't mean it should be deemed any less or not equal. Thats what I'm trying to point out. It's not fair to say the PC has virtually no software available to it.

There's more games released for the PC each month than anyone console out there.


John Carmack himself has stated that Doom 3 will be ported to the XBOX, and in all its graphical glory. The Nvidia chip the XBOX uses surely has OpenGL extensions as well (although I don't know if MS included OpenGL support in it). I have some doubts about it a XBOX port of Doom 3 (last time I checked JC detests Microsoft and DirectX) but from a technical POV I think it's entirely possible.

I wasn't even aware Doom was being ported to the console. I guess its no surprise considering how well Doom sold on both the PSX and the Saturn. Also considering Doom64 did fairly well. I guess this is a franchise Carmack has no intention of ignoring on the consoles. Which is definately good. It'll be interesting to see how the consoles size up to the PC ports.

I have no doubt there will be a gamecube, PS2, and Xbox version eventually. Obviously corners will have to be cut eventually to size up to this.

I wonder if the Xbox version will call upon the accuview anti aliasing engine. Would makes sense. I imagine most Xbox games use 2x or Quincunx FSAA as the blur effect is a lot less noticable on the TV.

[Omega]

I would go for PS2, many sequences of some classic games are for this new console, i would go for it

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Ninja
ChrisRay, I think you have missed my whole point. PCs are only really good for emulating what consoles supply. They have no games of their own really. Including a PC on this poll would go against the very essence of what I am fighting for. That's partially the reason I hate the Xbox so much. It's just not a console.

Ninja... are you drunk ? "PCs are only really good for emulating what consoles supply"... where did you get that crap, uh ?
"It's just not a console"... who are you to judge that ? Sorry Ninja but lately you are totally blind to reality, your hatred toward MS makes you say things that are pure crap (again, no offense, just the truth).
"I am well aware that the PC is more than capable of being a gaming machine, but the genre types on the PC are decidedly limited, and as a result I find the pickings very slim when I go to buy games for my PC."
Find a good RPG(D&D based)/Strategy/Graphic Adventure/FPS/Sport game on a console system (well, exclude sport games).... just because you don't like FPS doesn't mean you can exclude the genre, as a matter of fact 70% of the world likes them (IMO)... please think before speaking Ninja, as I've said lately you are saying nonsenses...

[Ninjaa]

Kaiser, I am not drunk, and I have nothing against PCs. I just don't generally use them for gaming, as I can't find enough games that I like on them. It's my opinion.

RPG(D&D based) - I don't like them, as they are too hack and slash for me.
Strategy - PTO 2, Nobunaga's Ambition, Liberty or Death, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, etc.
Graphics Adventure - granted, this is one area that the PC was once great in. Sadly, this genre seems killed by FPS games.
FPS - Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Timesplitters, etc.
Sports - SSX Tricky, Tony Hawk, etc.

Kaiser, you are reading way too much into what I say. I was voicing my opinion.

It's just not a console

It's true. PCs are in fact, not consoles. I don't know how you can debate that.

PCs are only really good for emulating what consoles supply

For me, that's the truth. I do have a few PC games, but most of the games I play on my PC are emulated, except for when I am in the mood for an FPS, or one of the classics such as Wing Commander, Freespace, Monkey Island, Master of Orion, etc.

I am well aware that the PC is more than capable of being a gaming machine, but the genre types on the PC are decidedly limited, and as a result I find the pickings very slim when I go to buy games for my PC

This is actually one that I am finding a great deal of difficulty in accepting that you have a problem with me saying. How would you know what I do when I go to the store? You know absolutely nothing about me. I see about 2 or 3 PC games a year that I actually want. I see a very large amount of console games each year that I want.

Kaiser, I am just not a PC gamer. Xbox has nothing to do with that. I was never a PC gamer before the Xbox came along, and guess what? I'm still not. If you don't believe me, search my previous posts. I was here long before the Xbox was announced, and I am sure I posted something similar to this a long time ago.

[Kane]

Ninja. What you said stated that it was true of everyone, and it's simply not. The Xbox is a console, like it or not

[Ninjaa]

I'm sorry if it was taken that way. I seriously didn't mean it that way. (honest) I'll try to be more clear in the future.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Ninja
Kaiser, I am not drunk, and I have nothing against PCs. I just don't generally use them for gaming, as I can't find enough games that I like on them. It's my opinion.

RPG(D&D based) - I don't like them, as they are too hack and slash for me.
Strategy - PTO 2, Nobunaga's Ambition, Liberty or Death, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, etc.
Graphics Adventure - granted, this is one area that the PC was once great in. Sadly, this genre seems killed by FPS games.
FPS - Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Timesplitters, etc.
Sports - SSX Tricky, Tony Hawk, etc.

Kaiser, you are reading way too much into what I say. I was voicing my opinion.

It's true. PCs are in fact, not consoles. I don't know how you can debate that.

For me, that's the truth. I do have a few PC games, but most of the games I play on my PC are emulated, except for when I am in the mood for an FPS, or one of the classics such as Wing Commander, Freespace, Monkey Island, Master of Orion, etc.

This is actually one that I am finding a great deal of difficulty in accepting that you have a problem with me saying. How would you know what I do when I go to the store? You know absolutely nothing about me. I see about 2 or 3 PC games a year that I actually want. I see a very large amount of console games each year that I want.

Kaiser, I am just not a PC gamer. Xbox has nothing to do with that. I was never a PC gamer before the Xbox came along, and guess what? I'm still not. If you don't believe me, search my previous posts. I was here long before the Xbox was announced, and I am sure I posted something similar to this a long time ago.

The drunk part was a cynicism, something that it's buggin me lately is that you are stating your oppinions as absolutes... which they aren't, you have your oppinions, but trust me, just right now they are really separated from reality...

Romance of the Three Kingdoms was awful (IMO) you'd rather name a great game such as FFT... as for graphics adventure some are coming their way (Simon the Sorcerer 3, the new chapter of Broken Sword, Full Throttle 2, etc)... the only good FPS on a console are the ones you mentioned plus Halo, not enough compared with the PC library, you know, CS isn't only about killing others, there's strategy behind the game... RPGs (D&D Based), play Planetscape Torment and you will see if they are only hack and slash... Oh and BTW, another genre that consoles still don't feature, (well I don't know how to name it...) Space simulators (no, they aren't simulators, oh hell) like Descent 3, Freespace, Homeworld, Homeworld 2, etc...

Sorry, but the reasons for your "crusade" against the XXXBOX still aren't valid (IMO at least)...

[Kane]

That's true, Kaiser, we only see these shallow arcade space games on the consoles, nothing like X-Wing alliace or Freespace

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Kane
That's true, Kaiser, we only see these shallow arcade space games on the consoles, nothing like X-Wing alliace or Freespace

Freespace, what a game. It features some of the most fiercest space battles EVER (either on a video game or in a movie)... anyway, sorry for getting OT...

[Ninjaa]

Actually, most of the Wing Commander games were ported to some console or another. But I am not too fond of the ports, and I play them on my PC.

As for the PC RPGs, I have only really played Diablo and Dungeon Siege. Judging by the amount of praise they recieve from PC gamers, I didn't pick ones that were all that bad. I didn't really find the games that pleasing.

Don't get me wrong. There are some games that I REALLY like to play on the PC, but there just aren't very many. The sad truth is that it seems like PC Gamers have mostly forgotten about other genres than FPS games. Myself, I am not that crazy about FPS games, so I prefer to stick to my console games, and the occasional PS2 port that comes to PC. (Such as Silent Hill 2).

The drunk part was a cynicism, something that it's buggin me lately is that you are stating your oppinions as absolutes... which they aren't, you have your oppinions, but trust me, just right now they are really separated from reality...

Once again, I am sorry if I came across as sounding a little too preachy. I have strong opinions on some matters that people sometimes take as being statement of fact.

But once again, I would like to state that I am not primarily a PC gamer, and as a result, I have no respect for the XBox or its business practices. (IN MY OPINION!)

[Kane]

> I have only really played Diablo and Dungeon Siege

These are dungeon hacks. Not indicative of true PC RPGs at all.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kane
That's true, Kaiser, we only see these shallow arcade space games on the consoles, nothing like X-Wing alliace or Freespace

The beauty of PC's is its incredibly large library, They still run the old games

The Wonderful thing about computers is even when you upgrade they are still very compatible with olders games. Sometimes you have to work harder to get them to run. The PC can run games from the 386 days and it can run things like Doom 3. Grandia II. ect.

But no Console can even say that. The Closest thing to that is the PS2. Which is a wonderful idea and I applaud sony for doing it.

The software library for the computer is limitless.

And it very much deserves the recognition as one of the better contenders as a gamers platform.

[Kane]

Emulation further extends the PC's awesome lineup. IMO there can be no greater machine.

[Ninjaa]

*sigh* I seem to be surrounded by PC gamers. Ah well, what can you expect on an emulation forum. :D

Seriously though guys, we are way off topic. We are supposed to be comparing consoles, not PCs.

[Exophase]

Hey Ninja, is me being a PS2 gamer better than being a PC gamer? ^_-

It looks like XBox should get a couple of games that PC's tend to lack. Or at least it will have to survive, otherwise its sales in Japan will continue to rapidly approach nothingness. What I mean is console style RPGs, or at the very least meeting somewhere attractively inbetween PC style ones (which I rather loathe) and console style ones (which I rather like). There were a couple PC games that tried this, like say.. Septerra Core, but they had some pretty serious flaws in some others areas. Hm.. I need to play through that game someday.

Anyway. Even if XBox's primary development is similar to PC games, it'll still get some spillover from those who like to develop for everyone. IE that "Kameo" RPG-like game being put on XBox and GCN. Has anyone seen the shots at RPGfan? It may be may imagine, or it may be because the GCN shots are lower res, but the GCN ones seem to look much, much better than the XBox ones...

- Exo

[Exophase]

Originally posted by ChrisRay


The beauty of PC's is its incredibly large library, They still run the old games

The Wonderful thing about computers is even when you upgrade they are still very compatible with olders games. Sometimes you have to work harder to get them to run. The PC can run games from the 386 days and it can run things like Doom 3. Grandia II. ect.

But no Console can even say that. The Closest thing to that is the PS2. Which is a wonderful idea and I applaud sony for doing it.

The software library for the computer is limitless.

And it very much deserves the recognition as one of the better contenders as a gamers platform.

What you say about consoles may be true in practice, but imagine not only console but PC emulators for systems like PS2.. then you could run those old 286 games in a fully synthetic environment without much hassle at all! Well it's a thought.. I think someone actually has done (or was in the process) of doing this.... and naturally such a thing for XBox should be extremely simple soon enough (IE DOS-for-XBox)... GCN would probably actually be better at emulating PC than PS2, so I should mention it too; I just don't think there's such a project for GCN, and it's probably too early to independently develop for it.

Naturally this wouldn't come close to running modern PC games.. hmm, lesse, maybe about a 66MHz 486 with VGA and SoundBlaster is a reasonable goal. Don't tell me that wouldn't be a cool project :D

- Exo

[Exophase]

Come to think of it, I DO remember hearing something about playing old DOS games on an XBox..

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

EXOPHASE!!!!! Boy, am I happy to see you. And yes, being a PS2 gamer is FAR better than being a PC Gamer. (no offense PC people, I have had enough for today.... maybe tomorrow... :D)

As for Kameo, that was once supposed to be Rare's first GCN game. :D I had thought it was a pure platformer, but to tell you the truth, I was never that interested in it, even when it was scheduled for the GameCube.

[Syed Fawad]

WTF?

I TYPED A HUGE POST AND POSTED. MY SYSTEM CRASHED AND I DON"T SEE THAT POST. MAN I AM PISSED OFF REAL BAD!

OK now I'll try to type the entire thing again.

:mad:

Once again we mixed the opinions on general levels and personal levels.

On a general level, PC is the best gaming platform. You can add mods and edit the games which gives somewhat an extra life to your games (at least in my case). And in the later years of consoles, their emulators appear and hence PC becomes an ultimate gaming machine.

But then again, the PC's are the most expensive of the platformers as well as they aren't primarily meant for games. This is where consoles come up. They are cheaper, easier to set up, smaller and portable (well not in XXXBOX's case :D) and covers a wider range of games.

Then we come down to personal opinions. In my case, I prefer consoles for my gaming. Some of the types like WWE games just suck on PC. And some of the PC games which I like are usually ported (Deus Ex, Monkey Island and Max payne). However, when the consoles age and their emulators are avaiable, I make a shift to PCs.

The bottom line is, there is no point in comparing PCs and Consoles. These are two totally different things IMO. So we should better keep this discussion limited to consoles.

BTW about XXXBOX voters "afraid" to reason their vote? I mean they don't just vote for ****. They must have reasons. I respect reasons a personal level but if anyone sez that I XXXBOX rules on a general level because of its built in online capabilities, then he deserves bashing.

[Ninjaa]

Dude, that sucks. I would have really liked to have read what you wrote. I always find your posts to be interesting. I know exactly how you feel though, as another forum I used to visit did that to me regularly.

EDIT: Syed revised his post.

I agree with you on most points Syed, except for a few things.

But then again, the PC's are the most expensive of the platformers as well as they aren't primarily meant for games. This is where consoles come up. They are cheaper, easier to set up, smaller and portable (well not in XXXBOX's case ) and covers a wider range of games.

PCs generally have cheaper games, and they can be bought for a reasonable price, but I still prefer the feel of a console game to a PC game for the most part.

Then we come down to personal opinions. In my case, I prefer consoles for my gaming. Some of the types like WWE games just suck on PC. And some of the PC games which I like are usually ported (Deus Ex, Monkey Island and Max payne). However, when the consoles age and their emulators are avaiable, I make a shift to PCs.

I find that console games rarely crash, they usually don't need patches, and the controls usually work very well, since you are playing with the controller that the game was designed for. I am not as fond of PC ports as you are, as they usually look worse, and most are designed to be played with a mouse and keyboard.

The bottom line is, there is no point in comparing PCs and Consoles. These are two totally different things IMO. So we should better keep this discussion limited to consoles.

*waves banner saying "keep PCs where they belong"*
Agreed. I am not saying that PCs shouldn't be used to play games, but they really do not fit the context of this poll. Especially given the title of this thread, and the question asked in the very first post. Hell, even the Dreamcast was excluded from this poll.

BTW about XXXBOX voters "afraid" to reason their vote? I mean they don't just vote for ****. They must have reasons. I respect reasons a personal level but if anyone sez that I XXXBOX rules on a general level because of its built in online capabilities, then he deserves bashing.

I personally don't think that the Xbox people would be bashed. Questioned rather severely, but what else can you expect? I think that comment was just written at a rather spiteful moment. I mean, why else would the Xbox have been included in the poll if people weren't allowed to vote for it?

[ChrisRay]

BTW about XXXBOX voters "afraid" to reason their vote? I mean they don't just vote for ****. They must have reasons. I respect reasons a personal level but if anyone sez that I XXXBOX rules on a general level because of its built in online capabilities, then he deserves bashing.

Well I could tell you why. But I promised myself I wouldn't go down that alley, But obviously people like it more than just online gaming. But like I said before. I dont get into game discussions because everyones opinion on a good game differs way too much to make an accurate argument about a console.


But then again, the PC's are the most expensive of the platformers as well as they aren't primarily meant for games. This is where consoles come up. They are cheaper, easier to set up, smaller and portable (well not in XXXBOX's case ) and covers a wider range of games.

They definately do cost more. But not as much as people think as they are really easy to upgrade if you play it right. I think advantage is well worth it. I also like the PCs ability to save "on the fly" with most games.

The ability to truly configure your console is awesome. And I wish more consoles allowed tweakability.


Naturally this wouldn't come close to running modern PC games.. hmm, lesse, maybe about a 66MHz 486 with VGA and SoundBlaster is a reasonable goal. Don't tell me that wouldn't be a cool project

Would definately be a cool project And I'd love to see it done. The only problem is most consoles right now (aside from xbox) lack a hard drive. And Aside from the onboard cmos on most consoles. You can't really configure an OS to run on them "without" a hard drive.

Sure you can boot up a CD. but without a hard drive your left with a pretty functionless Operating System. And Cmos just lack the memory capacity to make it feasable.

Its a wonderful idea however. I can imagine playing Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 1 on the Xbox. ;)


WTF?

I TYPED A HUGE POST AND POSTED. MY SYSTEM CRASHED AND I DON"T SEE THAT POST. MAN I AM PISSED OFF REAL BAD!

OK now I'll try to type the entire thing again.

ya this happened to me when I tried to reply to exophase. It was quite damned annoying. But oh well I just shut my PC off as the screen was giving me a headache ;)

[Exophase]

Yeah, the lack of an hdd is kinda annoying, although DOS in particularly doesn't need much hdd space. I think you could possibly do a little virtual disk image in a memory card? That might be sufficient for a little bit of space for some small things; of course all of your executables (and default configuration) would be on the CD-ROM, right?

- Exo

[ChrisRay]

Yes but those memory cards are quite slow in comparison to a hard drive.

Its definitely possible. But if its all loaded off cd, No tweaking to the configurations or executables can be done.

Unless of course thats loaded off memory card, Which is possible. The new PS2 memory cards are quite a bit more advanced.

If the Ps2 had more ram. it could be done Via a ram drive.

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by ChrisRay


Well I could tell you why. But I promised myself I wouldn't go down that alley, But obviously people like it more than just online gaming. But like I said before. I dont get into game discussions because everyones opinion on a good game differs way too much to make an accurate argument about a console.



You missed my point. I SAID I RESPECT PERSONAL OPINIONS. I would like to know YOUR personal choice of games.

You're the only XXXBOX voter to speak up his voice and thats a good thing. Perhaps the games you mention will also have some impact on me........

Just like Ninja talked to me about SSBM and Eternal Darkness, I don't mind talking to you on XXBOX's lineup. BTW XXXBOX does have one of my most favourite games - Shenmue.

[Exophase]

EXOPHASE!!!!! Boy, am I happy to see you.

I think I'm halucinating.... ^^;;

As for Kameo, that was once supposed to be Rare's first GCN game. :D I had thought it was a pure platformer, but to tell you the truth, I was never that interested in it, even when it was scheduled for the GameCube.

I don't really know, although it definitely LOOKS like a platformer... RPGfan has been known (IMO anyway) to cover a lot of stuff that's only loosely RPG-like. I'm not that much interested in the game itself, but I'm still fascinated at what seems to be an abnormal rift in graphical quality between the GCN and XBox versions... can anyone give a second opinion on that? Here are the shots:

http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/kameo/index.html

BTW.. this doesn't really have anything to do with the current topic of conversation, but Nintendo's deal with Tact of the Wind + Ocarina of Time + Ura Zelda has got to be the best game package I've seen... ever. Ocarina of Time was great.. I can't believe they're practically giving it away, it's just amazing. If I had a GCN I'd be all over this deal. Even Nintendo's harshest critics can't deny that this is an amazing deal.. actually I wouldn't be surprised if some of them started saying that Nintendo is foolish, or getting desperate, or something along those lines.

See what competition can bring forth? I don't think anyone would have expected to see GCN + Metroid Prime as a pack in deal, and especially not this.. and really I'm not sure if anyone would have expected the XBox deals going on right now either (those too are pretty phenominal even if the games themselves don't as much justify the purchase... but MS is still managing to throw quite a lot of money at the XBox)... now we just need a PS2 super-deal. :\

- Exo

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad


You missed my point. I SAID I RESPECT PERSONAL OPINIONS. I would like to know YOUR personal choice of games.

You're the only XXXBOX voter to speak up his voice and thats a good thing. Perhaps the games you mention will also have some impact on me........

Just like Ninja talked to me about SSBM and Eternal Darkness, I don't mind talking to you on XXBOX's lineup. BTW XXXBOX does have one of my most favourite games - Shenmue.

Well if you really need to know. If I had an Xbox. the games I would absolutely buy is

Panzer Dragoon series
Dead or Alive 3.
And House of the Dead 3 right now.
Shenmue game

Probably the Unreal game if I had Xbox Live.

it's a big assumption that I'd buy the Xbox right now tho. Because I probably wouldn't ;)

But there are 3 games on the PS2 I'd love to buy too.

Kingdom Hearts,
The New Grandia
and FF10.

And there's 2 games I like on the gamecube too.

Mario Sunshine and I really want to try that Resident Evil 0 game.

But coming down to it. I probably won't buy any of the systems for the next 2 years. As I've stated before. I'm a PC gamer.

But if I had an order for which I would buy these consoles.

It'd be Xbox/Ps2/Gamecube mainly because of the online features of the Xbox. "however" I won't be playing any of these games till all three of these consoles are more well established.

But do Understand. There are games for every console that apeal to me. Its not neccasarily favoritism. If the Xbox Live does prove to be as successful as I hope it to be. I will definately be more interested in the Xbox. As Online gameplay is the biggest reason I like PCs, Aside from the huge software lineup they have.

[Ninjaa]

I think I'm halucinating.... ^^;;

Hey, I've been through hell in this thread today. I'm just glad to see someone that I know has an even temper and a generally unbiased outlook on the consoles. (and is more console oriented than PC oriented. ;))

I don't really know, although it definitely LOOKS like a platformer... RPGfan has been known (IMO anyway) to cover a lot of stuff that's only loosely RPG-like. I'm not that much interested in the game itself, but I'm still fascinated at what seems to be an abnormal rift in graphical quality between the GCN and XBox versions... can anyone give a second opinion on that? Here are the shots:

To be fair to the Xbox, Rare has lost a HUGE chunk of their staff, and they have to start from scratch again on a new system, right after perfecting their GameCube skills. Given time, I'm sure they will turn out graphical masterpieces as always. But I know that I will be the person laughing hardest if the game ships looking like that. ;)

BTW.. this doesn't really have anything to do with the current topic of conversation, but Nintendo's deal with Tact of the Wind + Ocarina of Time + Ura Zelda has got to be the best game package I've seen... ever. Ocarina of Time was great.. I can't believe they're practically giving it away, it's just amazing. If I had a GCN I'd be all over this deal. Even Nintendo's harshest critics can't deny that this is an amazing deal.. actually I wouldn't be surprised if some of them started saying that Nintendo is foolish, or getting desperate, or something along those lines.

Agreed. The deal is just too good to be true. I was simply shocked when I saw that. If I had a modded GameCube, and any way of pre-ordering the Japanese version, I would be getting that right now.

See what competition can bring forth? I don't think anyone would have expected to see GCN + Metroid Prime as a pack in deal, and especially not this.. and really I'm not sure if anyone would have expected the XBox deals going on right now either (those too are pretty phenominal even if the games themselves don't as much justify the purchase... but MS is still managing to throw quite a lot of money at the XBox)... now we just need a PS2 super-deal. :\

Have to admit. When you're right, you're right. I think that Sony is a little too assured of their victory right now to really throw in anything else with the PS2 right now though. I am just hoping that GameCube sales will overtake PS2 sales this Christmas in Japan. That would be the best Christmas present I have gotten in years....

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by ChrisRay


Well if you really need to know. If I had an Xbox. the games I would absolutely buy is

Panzer Dragoon series
Dead or Alive 3.
And House of the Dead 3 right now.
Shenmue game

Probably the Unreal game if I had Xbox Live.

it's a big assumption that I'd buy the Xbox right now tho. Because I probably wouldn't ;)

As Online gameplay is the biggest reason I like PCs, Aside from the huge software lineup they have.


This is it. This is what I wanted to hear from you. Fine and dandy with me. Enjoy :)


BTW something I'd like to add, when they say that XXXBOX is a PC in a console disguise, they aren't wrong. PC gamers like XXXBOX We have a proof here :D

[ChrisRay]

they aren't wrong. PC gamers like XXXBOX We have a proof here

I wouldn't neccasarily say that. the Xbox has the key features of broadband capabilities and now the xbox live backing it up. Plus I'm a hardware nut so power to me is better.

But its definately true PC gamers find the xbox apealing as well. its the most popular console On the Madonion forums.

It still has the capabilities of being a great console IMO assuming microsoft does well with its xbox live marketing.

But you have to understand. I also feel the xbox has the potential to bridge the gap between consoles and PCs. It could be the best of both worlds.

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by ChrisRay


I also feel the xbox has the potential to bridge the gap between consoles and PCs. It could be the best of both worlds.

I find the PS2 doing that quite well. You've got:

Monkey Island
Half Life
Commandos
Deus Ex
Deus Ex2
Max payne
Max payne2
Mafia

A few that I missed.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad


I find the PS2 doing that quite well. You've got:

Monkey Island
Half Life
Commandos
Deus Ex
Deus Ex2
Max payne
Max payne2
Mafia

A few that I missed.

Well let me reiterate what I meant by bridging the gap. The true ability for Consoles and PCS to play games with each over a network. While this is a far ways away still. I think the xbox is a step in the right direction.

Hard drives would be a must for this kind of thing. It could only spell good news for the PC industry and the console industry if this ever comes to pass.

[Quatro]

well thats true chris, PC has the capability of playing nearly all of the console games... and Xbox is the console that looks like and perform like a PC...

But different console have certain features that differ the from the other... and thats what Xbox is different from the two...

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by ChrisRay


Well let me reiterate what I meant by bridging the gap. The true ability for Consoles and PCS to play games with each over a network. While this is a far ways away still. I think the xbox is a step in the right direction.

Hard drives would be a must for this kind of thing. It could only spell good news for the PC industry and the console industry if this ever comes to pass.

Games over network. Even in that case, more online PS2 games are available and on the horizon than XXXBOX's. Even more so, the I.link feature is another networking feature of the PS2 which IMO rox.

[campi]

So many pages so little time :), anyway I think the ps2 is currently the best console simply because it has more games and most of those games are top sellers :)

[Kane]

>The true ability for Consoles and PCS to play games with each over a network. While this is a far ways away still. I think the xbox is a step in the right direction.

IIRC you can play both FFXI and PSO accross platform.

[Raiden01]

PS2 is genrally the best not becuase of it power but becuase of the name Playstation and the selection of games. in real life the Xbox has better graphics and the gamecube. But these day people just go on games not the graphics any more so PS2 is by far the winnwe but it did have a head start... but i still don't think the other console will rival it. the Furture for the Xbox is looking pretty grim. i don't know what to say for the other console gamecube not sure on that.

[Carnage]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad


I find the PS2 doing that quite well. You've got:

Monkey Island
Half Life
Commandos
Deus Ex
Deus Ex2
Max payne
Max payne2
Mafia

A few that I missed.
I hate max payne on the ps2...i also hate it on pc to:) (stupîd bullettime)anyway,there is gonna come a nextgen:blackandwhite on ps2 so thats another good game,and not to forget Darkgauntlet:the legacy or Soulreaver2 or ...........

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Ninja
Actually, most of the Wing Commander games were ported to some console or another. But I am not too fond of the ports, and I play them on my PC.

As for the PC RPGs, I have only really played Diablo and Dungeon Siege. Judging by the amount of praise they recieve from PC gamers, I didn't pick ones that were all that bad. I didn't really find the games that pleasing.

Don't get me wrong. There are some games that I REALLY like to play on the PC, but there just aren't very many. The sad truth is that it seems like PC Gamers have mostly forgotten about other genres than FPS games. Myself, I am not that crazy about FPS games, so I prefer to stick to my console games, and the occasional PS2 port that comes to PC. (Such as Silent Hill 2).

Once again, I am sorry if I came across as sounding a little too preachy. I have strong opinions on some matters that people sometimes take as being statement of fact.

But once again, I would like to state that I am not primarily a PC gamer, and as a result, I have no respect for the XBox or its business practices. (IN MY OPINION!)

Your point on RPGs is awful... it's like I judge consoles RPGs because I played Grandia X... it's ridiculous. First, tha games you mentioned are Dungeon Crawlers, yes, they use RPG elements but they ARE NOT real RPGs (not D&D based at least). Want good examples of GREAT RPGs ? Planetscape Torment, Baldur's Gate I, II, SoA, Neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale I. II (though they are Dungeon Crawler oriented they are incredible well developed)... those are just to name some examples...

Sorry but your concept of the PC gamer is rather poor, and therefore greatly mistaken... It's true that the FPS are too popular but then again, even your idea of them is wrong... they are not just games of shooting ppl and reach the end of the level (well, not anymore at least...) want examples ? Half Life, Unreal, Unreal II (not out yet, but when it comes out...), Deus EX (the best FPS ever... though it features some RPG stuff... but that's another issue), Shogo (well, actually IT IS a pure FPS... but damn ! it has style) to name a few... Me ? my favorite genre is (and will always be) RPG, the hours I spent downloading mods for BG II are too many too count... PC gamers have forgotten about other genres ? then what about strategy games, uh ? they are far more known that what you'd think... just try to connect some night to the Blizzard servers, then you will see if they are, indeed as you say, so unpopular compared to the FPS...

About the last part of your post... what ? you only respect things that you like ? man, I hate your last posts yet I respect your "oppinions" (though they sound more like statements)...

EXOPHASE!!!!! Boy, am I happy to see you. And yes, being a PS2 gamer is FAR better than being a PC Gamer. (no offense PC people, I have had enough for today.... maybe tomorrow...

"being a PS2 gamer is FAR better than being a PC Gamer", now THAT'S an statement...

PCs generally have cheaper games, and they can be bought for a reasonable price, but I still prefer the feel of a console game to a PC game for the most part.

Man, I'd love to live where you are, because in the rest of the world PC games are more expensive than Console ones... as for the feeling... well, with some exceptions (the crappy remakes of the Lunar games for example...) I still have to find on console games that feeling of buying yourself a collector's edition... to name some : Baldur's Gate II Collector's Edition, Jedi Knight 2, Quake IIIA, Icewind Dale II, etc...

Agreed. I am not saying that PCs shouldn't be used to play games, but they really do not fit the context of this poll. Especially given the title of this thread, and the question asked in the very first post. Hell, even the Dreamcast was excluded from this poll.

Maybe an admin should determine that... IMO they fit a lot. Why ? because this is mainly a thread about games, PCs play games don't they ? Give me a good reason about why they don't fit the context and I'll think withdraw my petition of adding the PC to the fight (well, actually I won't... heheh)...

BTW about XXXBOX voters "afraid" to reason their vote? I mean they don't just vote for ****. They must have reasons. I respect reasons a personal level but if anyone sez that I XXXBOX rules on a general level because of its built in online capabilities, then he deserves bashing.

Can you blame them ? Hell even I acted like Ninja a few months ago... when ChrisRay defended MS I flame him like if I were some crazy fanatic... praise the Lord of Darkness for showing me the way... or rather the Dark (MWHAHAHAHAHA...). If they cast their vote they don't have anything to say, they are entitled to their oppions just as you all are...

I personally don't think that the Xbox people would be bashed. Questioned rather severely, but what else can you expect? I think that comment was just written at a rather spiteful moment. I mean, why else would the Xbox have been included in the poll if people weren't allowed to vote for it?

Who are you (or anyone else that states the same) to question ppl for their tastes ? Seriously Ninja you should start thinking what you say, this is a FORUM, if ppl like the XXXBOX they have their rights (though I think most of the few votes it got are from ppl that are just kidding) to vote it. They don't owe ANYONE, any damn explanation, stop that "Who voted the XXXBOX ?" stuff...

"Yes but those memory cards are quite slow in comparison to a hard drive.
Its definitely possible. But if its all loaded off cd, No tweaking to the configurations or executables can be done.
Unless of course thats loaded off memory card, Which is possible. The new PS2 memory cards are quite a bit more advanced.
If the Ps2 had more ram. it could be done Via a ram drive."

True, Memory cards may be cheaper at first but not they are just slow but also a real joke... I mean, you run out of space before you even notice... hell I remember on my Dreamcast days that Shenmue used 80 blocks of the 200 the VMU had... IMO I think that having a hard Drive is a great choise...

Hey, I've been through hell in this thread today. I'm just glad to see someone that I know has an even temper and a generally unbiased outlook on the consoles. (and is more console oriented than PC oriented. )

Take it as an advice based on my personal experience on this forums... if you continue to flame ppl the fight will not end, thing which will end on this thread being closed... now I suppose you don't want that...

BTW something I'd like to add, when they say that XXXBOX is a PC in a console disguise, they aren't wrong. PC gamers like XXXBOX We have a proof here

I'm a console gamer out of pure heart, and personally, I'm starting to like the XXXBOX (maybe it's you guys who constantly bash that machine what makes me like it)...

But you have to understand. I also feel the xbox has the potential to bridge the gap between consoles and PCs. It could be the best of both worlds.

Good, someone who is not blinded with hate based on nothing...

Anyway, now a "finally, odd request" (as Raelis Shai said..) to admins... should we enter the PC to this little "war" ? I mean, it's not out of topic and as said above (by me) this is a thread about games, isn't it ? I just ask because I don't want to end off topic...

[Moayed]

Ps2 is the best all around.
X box and gamecube have no chance against Ps2.Its the best
Metal gear solid 2.better than the last.It shows great graphics and gameplay
I consider both xbox and gamecube to lose at the polls

[_E_]

Guys, I suggest you give ninja a break. I myself disagree with ninja's point of view about PC gaming, but take it easy on him, everyone is intitled to his/her own opinions.

Now this is how i think about console and PC games, especailly RPGS:

We cannot deny the fact, that the psx ( and maybe the PS2) had the best RPG games ever. We recall Xenogears, Final Fantasy series, Parasite Eve, Chross Cross, Valkyrie Profile, Megaman LegendsII and so much more..... In fact, I can still see how consoles are dominating the RPG games, and each console ( GC, Xbox and PS2) is trying to get as much RPG games as it can for its success. RPG games are one of the elements of success of a console. Platform games such as sonic and mario have lost thier effect over the years. On the other hand, the PC has a HUGE game library. and like what was mentioned before, emulation adds up to this library. I dont see the point of getting a console, except to get these exculsive console games that doesnt have a port on the PC. Thats the real reason why most of us get a console to play with, otherwise, we should be all playing on our PCs.....

[Demigod]

Originally posted by Kingstar
We cannot deny the fact, that the psx ( and maybe the PS2) had the best RPG games ever. We recall Xenogears, Final Fantasy series, Parasite Eve, Chross Cross, Valkyrie Profile, Megaman LegendsII and so much more..... Hmm, I don't know, I personally think the SNES had the best RPG games. It was Square's brightest years and they produced some of the greatest RPGs to date, including FF4, FF6, Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3 and of course who can forget, Chrono Trigger. My most enjoyable RPG moments were had on the SNES (and SNES emulation).

[_E_]

Yes Demigod, you have a point, but the thing is that RPGs on the Snes lack good graphics, the psx offered all, it offered good quality graphics and good storyline all in one. the SNES on the other hand, did have FF1 and FF2, those games featured a nice story, but nowdays,getting used to the SNES graphics is getting harder, since we are all now playing 3D games......

[Exophase]

SNES just gets mentioned because it came first and everyone is nostalgic about it and can't admit it. Oops, I shouldn't have said that *puts on flame proof vest* :D Seriously though it's my not-all-that-humble opinion that PSX has both more RPGs and higher quality RPGs than SNES; most great RPGs on SNES had great sequels on PSX that even surpassed it; well maybe not Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana but they can't all be better :\

PSX introduced a few great RPG serieses of its own! Wild Arms, Suikoden, Grandia.. to me these serieses easily rank with the best SNES one.. and of course who can forget Xenogears? That's probably my favorite game of all time.

- Exo

[Exophase]

Another thing, in the SNES days RPGs were basically dominated by Square and Enix. For the sake of comparison, let's look at some of the most popular SNES RPGs and their PSX "counterparts"

FF 4, 5, 6 -> FF 7, 8, 9, FFT

Well FF7 and FF9 are easily my favorite FF games, although I'm sure not everyone would agree.. FFT is awesome, incorporating most of the "good" features of FF5. FF4 I find rather weak, and FF6 was great but not perfect. I like both FF7 and FF9 more. FF8 I see as a disaster...

Chrono Trigger -> Chrono Cross

I thought Chrono Cross was a pretty decent game but nowhere near as good as Chrono Trigger; HOWEVER it was, IMO, a very well done SEQUEL in that it was properly continuous without grafting itself right on top of its predecessor.

Seiken Densetsu 2, 3 -> Seiken Densetsu 4

Well I haven't played Legend of Mana but I hear it's pretty bad :\

Star Ocean -> Star Ocean 2

I've played both enough to think that SO2 is better, at least a little bit. It takes all the good elements of SO1 and expands on them, and it's quite a bit longer too!

Tales of Phantasia -> Tales of Phantasia remake, Tales of Destiny, Tales of Eternia

I haven't played ToD.. of course ToP remake being much BETTER than ToP automatically gives PSX an advantage here and I thought ToE was also quite good.

... I shouldn't get started talking about RPGs here, should I.. :)

- Exo

[_E_]

Exophase, thanks for yur opinion, but you have strayed to much beyond the topic, we are not comparing SNES games vs PSX games. Anyways,....Its a matter of taste, I find the SNES RPGs entertaining, but i still think that the psx versions completed the missing factor, ...graphics. FF7 is the best psx FF ever IMO. and i think alot of people got the same opinion. Until now, I didnt see an RPG as good as Xenogears on the psx,but titles such as Parasite Eve and FF7, even chrono cross , attract me. Anyway, back to the topic, Xbox has finally got the MGS II substance ( Exculsively as far as i am concerned) ...I think MS will take the next step for making/owning exclusive RPG hits for its xbox ,...........(same thing implies for nintendo and Sony)

[Exophase]

Can you really say you expected 18 pages to be about PS2 vs. GCN vs. XBox? If you think I'm so off topic you didn't have to continue my topic of conversation either... well yeah, I AM really off topic, but oh well, I think it's okay to go onto a different topic sometimes, conversations are supposed to be dynamic like that, and the root one is starting to get a little beat to death -_-

MS is gonna have a very hard time getting any exclusive Japanese based RPGs, and the few American based pure console RPGs we've seen have sucked pretty badly. Actually right now I can't really see ANY big name Japanese RPG company producing exclusively for the XBox when its reputation already promises a small RPG gamer userbase...

The same reasons I was using a few months ago about the PS2 being a more attractive machine for RPG developers than the GCN apply here, except for much more.

- Exo

[_E_]

Exophase, I dont really mind going off topic, but i dont want to blamed for that by any other admin, since i am the one who came with the "psx RPGs" statement :) Anyways, MS IS having hard time getting good games, no just RPGs. Nintendo and Sega can make thier own RPGs themselves, we have seen Sega's maserpiece. Skies of Arcadia on the Dreamcast, and its coming on the GC too. Sony have secured all the RPG games for itself. Now the PS2 have LOADS of RPG games. However, lets not concentrated on RPG games only, Sport and " Kiddie" games make up a big propotion of an company's sales. RPGs are on element of a good console, but they are not everything........

[ChrisRay]

IIRC you can play both FFXI and PSO accross platform

Oh I know. You have no idea how happy it makes me to see things like this happening. The best thing about PC is it really does not directly compete with any of these consoles. And console makers have nothing to lose by making more cross networks between platforms such as the PC and Consoles.

This has always been my dream as far as consoles and PCS go. I know its not close to reality. But I feel hard drives will be almost a complete neccesity if this becomes a reality.


However I'll be the first to tell you how disapointed I am for squaresofts first offering. FF Xi was terrible. I wonder if they put any thought into it. For as long as they had planned this game its like they rushed it out the doors.

[Ninjaa]

Kaiser, you are taking this way too seriously. Take a breather, then come back. I don't hate PCs, I don't hate PC gamers, and I haven't flamed ChrisRay for liking the Xbox in this thread. Look at my overall posts, and you will see that. Just calm down ok?

About the current discussion going on.... I prefer the SNES RPGs for the most part. Exophase, the true predecessor to FFT was Tactics Ogre, which was a masterpiece on the SNES. It's true that the PSX had better graphics, but the overall gameplay experience was better on the SNES. Plus, the PSX was the system in which Square made its great fall. SNES was the system in which they rose to power.

Kingstar, there are a few high profile RPGs comign to GameCube already, and it's still unknown which system Dragon Quest is coming to. It's doubtfull that the US gamers will care that much, but the Japanese DO care about Dragon Quest.

[_E_]

Originally posted by Ninja
............. Plus, the PSX was the system in which Square made its great fall. SNES was the system in which they rose to power.

hold on for a sec! PSX was square's greatest fall ?!!?! yes, I agree with you about the golden era of square when the SNES was around, but it was till 1999 when square began to fall,....most square's good RPGs come from around years 1997-1998. Parasite Eve, Xenogears, Final Fantasy 7 are examples of that time. Dont say that these games made square fall, in fact, I can see the fall od square truly began after FF9.........

[Ninjaa]

It was towards the end of the PSX era. They released Chrono Cross, Legend of Mana, FF9, and Parasite Eve 2 all within a few months of eachother. ;) That's what I was referring to.

[_E_]

Basically, Square dumped the storyline part and concentrated on FMV movies and graphics. In Parasite Eve II, the graphics were gorgeous, but there was no solid plot to the game. In Xenogears, the graphics were not that impressive, but on the otherhand, It featured the best RPG story ever.........I dont know anything about FF X, since i didnt play it yet, but i can see that square concentrated alot on the graphics side, I wouldnt expect a very solid storyline........

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kingstar
Basically, Square dumped the storyline part and concentrated on FMV movies and graphics. In Parasite Eve II, the graphics were gorgeous, but there was no solid plot to the game. In Xenogears, the graphics were not that impressive, but on the otherhand, It featured the best RPG story ever.........I dont know anything about FF X, since i didnt play it yet, but i can see that square concentrated alot on the graphics side, I wouldnt expect a very solid storyline........

See its all opinion. I've stated numerous times that Chrono Cross was one of my favorite games for the PSX. Squaresoft has done so many different kinds of RPGS, you simply cannot expect them to apeal to everyone. Personally I feel its a good thing that they try new things, USe different techniques of story telling ect.

Otherwise everything would be like Final Fantasy and I just can;t tolerate that. IF they didn't try new things. Different ways to tell a story people would be on squaresoft for not doing anything.

So basically put. Square is damned if they do and damned if they don't. I give them a B+ For effort however. They are trying to give everyone what they want.

[_E_]

Originally posted by ChrisRay


See its all opinion. I've stated numerous times that Chrono Cross was one of my favorite games for the PSX. Squaresoft has done so many different kinds of RPGS, you simply cannot expect them to apeal to everyone. Personally I feel its a good thing that they try new things, USe different techniques of story telling ect.

Otherwise everything would be like Final Fantasy and I just can;t tolerate that. IF they didn't try new things. Different ways to tell a story people would be on squaresoft for not doing anything.

So basically put. Square is damned if they do and damned if they don't. I give them a B+ For effort however. They are trying to give everyone what they want.

I think the "Legacy" of Final fantasy is over, but square is just over doing it. Good games like Parasite Eve I , Xenogears,and Chrono Cross, where not given the chance to be released in so many series as FF, yet, square insist that this game continues. Personally, I belive that they should put an end to it!

[Ninjaa]

Kingstar, there was one time I would have violently opposed such a statement. Final Fantasy was once a game that I worshipped as a god.

However, that time is long gone. I too would like to see a final Final Fantasy. It's just over.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kingstar


I think the "Legacy" of Final fantasy is over, but square is just over doing it. Good games like Parasite Eve I , Xenogears,and Chrono Cross, where not given the chance to be released in so many series as FF, yet, square insist that this game continues. Personally, I belive that they should put an end to it!


Personally I don't care if they name there titles "Barney's great adventures in Never Never Land"

As long as the game is good. I've stated before I'd rather them innovate and try new styles then simply going with what works everytime.

I want to see companies like square grow beyond what they currently are.

[_E_]

Originally posted by Ninja
Kingstar, there was one time I would have violently opposed such a statement. Final Fantasy was once a game that I worshipped as a god.

However, that time is long gone. I too would like to see a final Final Fantasy. It's just over.

:) You were not the only one. Almost everybody i knew 3 years ago, worshipped Final Fantasy. At that time, It was really a "Fantasy", now,...its gone. Even in FF-X2, square is mixing up tomb raider's style in the game. I dunno if this will work again as it did when they released Parasite Eve ( gameplay is sorta mix between Final Fantasy and RE style) or not......Like what ChrisRay said, its time for complete innovative games.....

[_E_]

Originally posted by ChrisRay



Personally I don't care if they name there titles "Barney's great adventures in Never Never Land"

As long as the game is good. I've stated before I'd rather them innovate and try new styles then simply going with what works everytime.

I want to see companies like square grow beyond what they currently are.

True, its the game which matters after all, but in the case of square, Its old games were the biggest Hits. Now, look at square games, its not the way it used to be before......No one is looking on FF X the way we used to love FF6 and 7

[Exophase]

Ninja, did you know PSX has a better version of Tactics Ogre? I personally like FFT a lot more though. Interestingly a lot of Square's most popular games made it to PSX too, so it's hard to really pit the SNES against it, when it absorbed some of the best in its library..

- Exo

[Exophase]

Yeah, I'd say this all has a lot to do with opinion too. Look at Vagrant Story; Ninja thinks it's Square's last good game, while I think it's big pile of crap.

How do people figure games like Chrono Cross and FF9 have bad plots? Games like FF4 have bad plots :p FF9 had both an exceptional plot AND characters, and Chrono Cross lacked in the character department but had a very indepth, complicated plot (the kind I like)

- Exo

[ChrisRay]

Games like FF4 have bad plots

You my friend are going straight to hell. :D

[Ninjaa]

Exophase, no offence, but you need to have your head examined. :D

I didn't like much of anything about FF9 (aside from the style), and Chrono Cross simply butchered the name too much for me to bother with.

As for the SNES ports on the PSX, in the case of FF4, FF5, FF6, and CT, I HATED the ports. The ports of Tactics Ogre, Tales of Phantasia, and Dragon Quest IV were pretty good though... but the problem was is that they were old by that time. The experience of playing them had already been done on the SNES.

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma

I'm a console gamer out of pure heart, and personally, I'm starting to like the XXXBOX (maybe it's you guys who constantly bash that machine what makes me like it)...



You're startin to like XXXBOX. IIRC a few weeks ago you were starting to like PS2 and a few weeks before that you were starting to like GC and a few weeks before that you liked nothing but DC. :D

I can understand you're point when you say you like DC, GC or the PS2 but when you start liking XXXBOX, wel, you're in for some explanation ;)

As for the PC point is concerned. IMO PC doesn't belong in this poll. A couple of years later from now, PC will CONTAIN console gaming. Till that period, usually the end of a console's life, he consoles are the better choice for games, at least IMO.

I can't play Smackdown on PC. I can't play Shenmue PC. I can't play RE on PC. I can't play DMC on PC. This is why.

[ChrisRay]

As for the PC point is concerned. IMO PC doesn't belong in this poll. A couple of years later from now, PC will CONTAIN console gaming. Till that period, usually the end of a console's life, he consoles are the better choice for games, at least IMO.

And Why is that? Give me conclusive evidence that Consoles are the best gaming platforms? they are way to limited. You could say it has 25x the software support and still be an under estimation.


I can't play Smackdown on PC. I can't play Shenmue PC. I can't play RE on PC. I can't play DMC on PC. This is why

You can't play NeverWinter Nights on a console, you can't play No One lives forever 2 on a console. The coin is just as easily reversed you know.


There's really no reason why a PC can't be considered a gaming system. Unless of course you just have a god awful PC, Which is no different than still owning a Snes and complaining that there aren't any new games coming out for it.

(not that anyone is doing that, Its an example)

[Exophase]

Exophase, no offence, but you need to have your head examined. :D

Yeah and you like Vagrant Story, maybe you need your head examined too ^_^

I didn't like much of anything about FF9 (aside from the style), and Chrono Cross simply butchered the name too much for me to bother with.

Okay, let me ask you this, what did FF9 lack that any other good RPG has? What specifically was not to like? Besides the idiotic looking models. Super deformity pushed too far yet again.. ugh..

As for the SNES ports on the PSX, in the case of FF4, FF5, FF6, and CT, I HATED the ports.

I didn't even play them, not that I would have bothered to actually buy them....

The ports of Tactics Ogre, Tales of Phantasia, and Dragon Quest IV were pretty good though... but the problem was is that they were old by that time. The experience of playing them had already been done on the SNES.

Tactics Ogre and Tales of Phantasia aren't just ports, they add significantly to the games. I can't really comment on DQ IV, as I don't really like any of the DQ series very much, so... hey, isn't that an NES game?

Speaking of Tactics Ogre, I somehow doubt you played it on the SNES instead of the PSX since it was never released for SNES outside of the Japan. If you DID then you must have not cared that much about the plot...

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Heh. Yes, I must admit that I only played the PSX version of Tactics Ogre. *bows head in shame.*

The PSX port of DQ4 was awesome though. It was a port much along the lines of the PSX-GCN "port" of Resident Evil. More of a remake than a port. And yes, it was a NES game. ;) I kind of forgot that when I wrote it. I couldn't think of any more ported games at the moment.

Oh, and I hated the characters and story in FF9. I liked the graphics and combat system though.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad


You're startin to like XXXBOX. IIRC a few weeks ago you were starting to like PS2 and a few weeks before that you were starting to like GC and a few weeks before that you liked nothing but DC. :D

I can understand you're point when you say you like DC, GC or the PS2 but when you start liking XXXBOX, wel, you're in for some explanation ;) (...)


Oh my... don't you guys realize my (awful) cynical comments (though I recognize that one was pretty weak) ? I find your post a bit insulting (in theory you are saying that I switch from one console to another...). Let's clarify things... IMO the best is still the DC, maybe because I have some great memories with it... I liked the GC ? kinda, I used to be a bit obnoxious saying that Nintendo was the only good company and all that crap... later I started to use a bit of logic and I came into my senses... do I like the PS2 ? Hell no ! But I grant you that it have LOTS (damn) of great games nowadays... Do I like the XXXBOX ? Hell no ! (again) But I tire of seeing you guys taunting ppl you don't even know (the ones who voted...) But I used to be like Ninja and stated (wrong of my part) that the XXXBOX didn't deserve to be in the video game market... why ? because I hated MS (well I still hate them).... now I realize that it's just another console trying to bring some games... but in the unlikely event that I started to like that console (or any other)... well, I know why should I give you (or anyone else) an explanation...

Kaiser, you are taking this way too seriously. Take a breather, then come back. I don't hate PCs, I don't hate PC gamers, and I haven't flamed ChrisRay for liking the Xbox in this thread. Look at my overall posts, and you will see that. Just calm down ok?

mmm... you think I'm upset ? sorry but that's just anoter "mistake" on your part... and please, don't tell me (not even as a joke) to take a breathe... ok ? be respectul to me just like I am to you... got it ?

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma


Oh my... don't you guys realize my (awful) cynical comments (though I recognize that one was pretty weak) ? I find your post a bit insulting (in theory you are saying that I switch from one console to another...). Let's clarify things... IMO the best is still the DC, maybe because I have some great memories with it... I liked the GC ? kinda, I used to be a bit obnoxious saying that Nintendo was the only good company and all that crap... later I started to use a bit of logic and I came into my senses... do I like the PS2 ? Hell no ! But I grant you that it have LOTS (damn) of great games nowadays... Do I like the XXXBOX ? Hell no ! (again) But I tire of seeing you guys taunting ppl you don't even know (the ones who voted...) But I used to be like Ninja and stated (wrong of my part) that the XXXBOX didn't deserve to be in the video game market... why ? because I hated MS (well I still hate them).... now I realize that it's just another console trying to bring some games... but in the unlikely event that I started to like that console (or any other)... well, I know why should I give you (or anyone else) an explanation...



That clears it up quite nicely. ;)

But I didn't get your point about this thread. Which of the three do YOU think is the best?

[Exophase]

Hold on there, I don't think very many people bought XBox BECAUSE MS made it (unlike PS2/GCN) but more likely in spite of the fact that MS made it. And no one buys a console without games being their primary reason for purchase. It's not a PC and I don't think that many people buy them to make them into half-assed Linux servers...

Don't forget that XBox has DVD playback too (that's probably a lot better than PS2's).. yes.. I know.. the root of all evil is DVD playback...

What I wanna know is why even the console's fans call it "XXXBox" now o_O

- Exo

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad


That clears it up quite nicely. ;)

But I didn't get your point about this thread. Which of the three do YOU think is the best?

I said it a lot of pages before (so I can't blame you for not reading my post). I won't cast my vote since I think the 3 contenders have some good things backing them (even XXXBOX). But if you as my personal an objective point of view I'd have to say that the GC is the king of the hill by far... however I'm not casting my vote for any of the 3 systems nor I'm going to buy any of them (not even the GC)...

What I wanna know is why even the console's fans call it "XXXBox" now o_O

I'd hate to think that you think of me as a XXXOX fan... I'm no console fan... only resason why I don't bash the XXXBOX anymore is just because I don't think I have anything against it... if you have doubts you can ask admins... I haven't casted my vote and I won't cast i either...

[Syed Fawad]

This means that if DC is being edited back in the poll, then it'll have at least one vote :p

[ChrisRay]

Really not fair to edit anything back into the poll unless its reset =p if things like PC and DC were in it. Then it probably would have been quite a bit different.

[Syed Fawad]

Honestly if you put PC in a poll here or anywhere, it'll get twice the votes of all the consoles combined.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad
Honestly if you put PC in a poll here or anywhere, it'll get twice the votes of all the consoles combined.


Touche, which is why I don't think it makes much sense to do that at this point =p

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by ChrisRay



Touche, which is why I don't think it makes much sense to do that at this point =p

Exactly. This thread is IMO perfect for now. DC games are no longer coming so that disqualifies it too from this thread.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad
This means that if DC is being edited back in the poll, then it'll have at least one vote :p

Not really... still I think the PC should be in this poll... but you both have your points (which are quite valid), so I won't ask for PC to be in the poll anymore... yet I think that the PC is worth of discussing on this thread.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma


Not really... still I think the PC should be in this poll... but you both have your points (which are quite valid), so I won't ask for PC to be in the poll anymore... yet I think that the PC is worth of discussing on this thread.

I don't see much point in the PC being in this thread, But there's no harm discussing it either. It is probably the most advanced of all gaming systems right now. But also the most expensive.

[Kaiser Sigma]

True, but also the most versatile and probably the most complex gaming system ever...

[Finalbuster]

All you'll find for Pc's are Fps... and emulators of course. Emulators are IMHO the only reason to keep upgrading my pc...

[Kane]

>All you'll find for Pc's are Fps

Complete BS
What about Baldurs Gate? > RPG
Final Fantasy > RPG
X-Wing Alliance, Starcraft, Warcraft, Command and conquer.....
The PC has hundreds of thousands of games that aren't FPS'

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Kane
>All you'll find for Pc's are Fps

Complete BS
What about Baldurs Gate? > RPG
Final Fantasy > RPG
X-Wing Alliance, Starcraft, Warcraft, Command and conquer.....
The PC has hundreds of thousands of games that aren't FPS'

I double that, what about Graphic adventures, racing games, uh ? That's just an euphemism, the PC features a lot of different genres.

[Finalbuster]

You're absolutely right. I forgot about those games. It's just that I don't see many of those games in the stores near where I live. How could I forget about that weird creation that "The sims" is? That game is fun, hehe. Sorry if anyone was offended by my inculture.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma


I double that, what about Graphic adventures, racing games, uh ? That's just an euphemism, the PC features a lot of different genres.


Racing games are an extremely popular genre on the PC right now..

[Kaiser Sigma]

Hell yeah, most of that is thanks to the existance of the NOF series...

[Finalbuster]

(Finalbuster feels bad :( )

[Kaiser Sigma]

Come on, we are not fighting, we are just pointing some facts...

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
Hell yeah, most of that is thanks to the existance of the NOF series...


God Bless Electronic Arts.

[Syed Fawad]

BTW what is NOF? and please name some cool racers for the PC.

[ToM_E]

NOF? I guess Need um...dunno...what is NOF?

[Yeloazndevil]

man what IS NOF? and some cool pc racers, the only one i know of is Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by yeloazndevil
man what IS NOF? and some cool pc racers, the only one i know of is Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2


Need for speed series. Every Need for Speed game has so far been released on the PC.

[Syed Fawad]

Any other besides NFS?

[ChrisRay]

Tons, paticularly formula racing games, Are quite popular.


PC has a lot of simulation racers.

[Kane]

The PC has Screamer Rally, IMO the greatest racing game ever.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad
BTW what is NOF? and please name some cool racers for the PC.

oops, my wrong, I tried to say NFS... hehe, I was tired...

God Bless Electronic Arts.

I double that too...

The PC has Screamer Rally, IMO the greatest racing game ever.

The screamer series are overall a great example of racing games... man, the first screamer... it was the perfect racing arcade... the cars, the stages, the tournaments... everything was cool on those games...

[Ninjaa]

I think that NFS4 PC was the best racing game ever. But once again I would like to remind everyone that we are straying off topic?

[Kaiser Sigma]

mmm... Kane was talking about it and didn't seem to think so... but maybe he should enlighten me about if I'm or not off topic...

[Moayed]

Ps2 is the best.Apart from having good graphics it also has great gameplay and games.I like Metal Gear solid 2 on the ps2.

By the way i diagree with NINJA,i think Spiderman the movie game was the best on the PC.

There's the edit button on your lower right hand corner. I'd advise you to use it, Moayed.

[Phierce]

My vote goes without hesitation to PS2!!

The controlers are easier to use,
The console has way more titles, and most of the top game developers develop for Sony first.

[Omega]

I never saw the control pad of the Xbox anyone got a link or a image?

[_E_]

Originally posted by Omega
I never saw the control pad of the Xbox anyone got a link or a image?

sure! there you go!

[Phierce]

See!! That thing is MASIVE!!!
and the bad thing is it has absolutely NO advantage over the PS2 Dual Shock Controllers to make up for the hugeness of it all

[_E_]

Originally posted by Phierce
See!! That thing is MASIVE!!!
and the bad thing is it has absolutely NO advantage over the PS2 Dual Shock Controllers to make up for the hugeness of it all

hmm,..I would say that the Xbox controller is somehow based on the dreamcast's. However, i dont like this controller,( despite the fact that its buttons are attached well). I find the PS2/ PSOne controller the most confortable , followed directly by the Gamecube contorller, but ofcourse, thats only my personal opinion....

[Phierce]

of course, All of this is personal opinion.

However, I cannot think of WHY a company like Microsoft would make such a huge thing that most of it is useles, wasted Space! That is totally Not like them!

(I hope you can all sense the incredibly strong sarcasm in my text)

[_E_]

Originally posted by Phierce
of course, All of this is personal opinion.

However, I cannot think of WHY a company like Microsoft would make such a huge thing that most of it is useles, wasted Space! That is totally Not like them!

(I hope you can all sense the incredibly strong sarcasm in my text)

Just like the PC industry right? Just as Microsoft is dominating the PC industry, Its now trying to take over the console industry. All fair in love and war....

[Ninjaa]

I think that the GameCube controller is the best, followed by the PSX Dual Shock, then the SNES, then the PSX controller.

[Ryos]

There's simply no way I'd ever play the Xbox without Japanese controllers. The regular size is WAY too big. The Penny-Arcade strip from a couple months back is pretty good at showing how evil the American controller size is. It's about as inflated as Microsoft's ego.

[_E_]

Originally posted by Ryos
There's simply no way I'd ever play the Xbox without Japanese controllers. The regular size is WAY too big. The Penny-Arcade strip from a couple months back is pretty good at showing how evil the American controller size is. It's about as inflated as Microsoft's ego.

:D , I find your post funny, but true. There is not nesseccarity for such big size. PS2 and gamecube controllers are much simpler and smaller in size.....

[Kaiser Sigma]

Yet the GC controller it's quite uncomfortable... at least to me... nothing beats the PS2 dual-shock controller...

[Kane]

>There's simply no way I'd ever play the Xbox without Japanese controllers. The regular size is WAY too big. The Penny-Arcade strip from a couple months back is pretty good at showing how evil the American controller size is. It's about as inflated as Microsoft's ego.

True and yet I found the controller to be surprisingly comfortable.....

[ChrisRay]

I still really don't see how people who liked the dreamcast controller can hate the xbox controller. Its basically the same design, =p

Aside from that, I like all the controllers. Each has a different feel but all work fine for me. I think the problem lies in the controllers people are used too.

Does anyone remember owning people in Games like street fighter and Mortal Kombat on the Super Nintendo controllers. Then going to the arcade and getting stomped?

Then Vice Versa

It has a lot to do with people going accustomed to a certain configuration And then standing by it. Once you get used to any controller I believe you can become extremely effective with it.

[Drack]

Originally posted by Kane
True and yet I found the controller to be surprisingly comfortable.....

I thought that the XBOX controller was way better than the Gamecube one. It might just be becaues I have really large hands.

[Ryos]

> I still really don't see how people who liked the dreamcast controller can hate the xbox controller. Its basically the same design,

But I can stare at the chibi characters on the memory card that takes up half of the DC controller and console myself on how big it is. I look at the Xbox controller and try to think how I could possibly use it as a weapon. The Japanese one is quite reasonable in comparison.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Ryos
> I still really don't see how people who liked the dreamcast controller can hate the xbox controller. Its basically the same design,

But I can stare at the chibi characters on the memory card that takes up half of the DC controller and console myself on how big it is. I look at the Xbox controller and try to think how I could possibly use it as a weapon. The Japanese one is quite reasonable in comparison.


Well this is why 3rd party companies make different kinds of controllers. If you like that kind of customability (not even sure if thats a word =p)

[Kane]

>I still really don't see how people who liked the dreamcast controller can hate the xbox controller. Its basically the same design

I hate the Dreamcast pad with vehemence. I got Guilty Gear X for the DC, and my character acted like a caffine addict whod just take a practicaly lethal dose of speed. When I used my DC-PSX adaptor, the game was my *****.

[Phierce]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
I still really don't see how people who liked the dreamcast controller can hate the xbox controller. Its basically the same design, =p


Well, my point is that the XBOX controller is huge for no reason, didnt the Dreamcast have the memory card insert? that was at least used space, the XBOX controller has this cheap, little girl looking plastic jewell... yeah THATS useful!

[Ninjaa]

I actually don't see why people complain about the size of the Xbox controller. I have very small hands, and it fits surprisingly well.

My problem is the poor choice in face button size, texture, and placement. It's almost impossible to hit the right button on the damn thing.

Ryos, the Japanese controller is much better, I agree with you there.
I didn't like the Dreamcast controller much either, but it was a hell of a lot better than the Xbox controller. I could at least find the face buttons.

[Ninjaa]

Heh. Quick update on the Xbox issue. How many users do you think that this (http://theregister.co.uk/content/54/28180.html) will cost MS?

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Ninja
Heh. Quick update on the Xbox issue. How many users do you think that this (http://theregister.co.uk/content/54/28180.html) will cost MS?

The whole of Asian market :p

[Ninjaa]

that's what I was kind of thinking. Ah well, it'll be hilarious when a new mod chip comes out that changes your unchangeable ID number. ;)

[Syed Fawad]

Definetly teh modchip market is a step ahead of any thing that M$ or Sony can think up of.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad


The whole of Asian market :p


Doesn't surprise me one bit. A Reality of PC gaming is you really can't play pirated games online. This is really no different than whats been happening on the PC for a long time. Only difference being microsoft permanently crap lists that console =p

[Ninjaa]

*coughcoughbullcrapcoughcough*

I would prove the opposite if it wouldn't get me banned and the thread locked.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Ninja
*coughcoughbullcrapcoughcough*

I would prove the opposite if it wouldn't get me banned and the thread locked.

Sure you could. its no different than what people normally do to break these rules. You can easily get online if you know what your doing. But you also risk someone else using the exact same (Blank) to get there. In most cases, It makes more sense to buy software than to keep changing everytime a "blank" generates a "blank" so can you play online. Its quite a hassle for even pirates right now.

Secondly I'm referring to more modern Online Games such as EQ, Neverwinter Nights, No One Lives forever, UT2003, These games are very difficult to play online without buying the software, Almost impossible. And they are great detourants to keep people away from using a pirated software. It's no wonder microsoft seems so confident about making money in the asian market =p


There will probably be a crack for this someday. But who really cares? both methods. Mentioned above and here work wonderfully as detourant for pirating, And this will actually be more effective as it bans the Box itself. Rather than the software on the PC,

Definately a good step for microsoft on anti piracy and anti cheating. I'm sure Nintendo or Sony would do the same thing assuming they had a similar feature on the consoles.

[Omega]

Originally posted by Kingstar


sure! there you go!

Wow it looks real nice, thanks for the image ;)

[Recca]

BY THE GODS, Ninja what has happen to you, why the name Dumbass:confused:

[Kane]

He want's to be an ijit and act like a 'typical' Sony/ Xbox fanboy. I don't think it's funny in the slightest to be perfectly honest.

[Samor]

=P

uhm
I thought someone had beaten him with a dumbass stick ;)

[Kane]

/me starts twating Ninja over the head with said stick.

[Recca]

Its just not Ninja.
You should change back Ninja

[Syed Fawad]

WTF? that is one of the worst things I have seen you done Ninja.

*goes out to searches for an anti-Dumba$$ Stick*

[Exophase]

It's supposed to be a joke? And I was worried someone hacked NGEmu.. oh well. It doesn't seem that much different than Ninja's last sig to me, just for different consoles.. :D :D

- Exo

[Ninjaa]

Hey! That's not nice Exophase! ;) I think if done properly, it would have been funny, but I didn't really do it right...

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Ninja
Heh. Quick update on the Xbox issue. How many users do you think that this (http://theregister.co.uk/content/54/28180.html) will cost MS?

Well that's one point of seeing it... another would be that MS acomplished in just 2 years what Nintendo, Sega or even Sony couldn't... do you think it's that bad ? me, well I won't praise MS, that's for sure but I have to admit that it isn't such a bad move... actually it's quite a great one... let's bash MS for reasonable things...

[_E_]

hmm,.....As if there are millions of people around the world own an xbox! I dont think this move will change a thing. Xbox without good games will stay the same, weather it has a mod chip or not

PS: these xbox forums are sure funny :D, There was someone who describes MS as the sh!t he loves!!! :D

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Kingstar
hmm,.....As if there are millions of people around the world own an xbox! I dont think this move will change a thing. Xbox without good games will stay the same, weather it has a mod chip or not

PS: these xbox forums are sure funny :D, There was someone who describes MS as the sh!t he loves!!! :D

I don't care about those kind of facts, it's just interesting to see someone finally taking actions rather than just seeing someone complaining all the day about how piracy damages its company but doing nothing against it...

As for the second part... are you talking about this forum ? if so, who was it ? (I think I missed it)...

[Syed Fawad]

I don't think that he is talking about THIS forums. Otherwise there would have been acool discussion with him and he had been famous already :p

[Ryos]

Obviously not. We have no Xbox forums. If someone made one, I'd delete it. :p

[_E_]

my fault, I forgot to add the link :p

http://forums.xbox.com/

[Syed Fawad]

Way to go Ryos :D

No wonder Ninja put up his new sig LOL :D

[Sera]

hey i thought this forum doesnt allow off-topics?
but i guess your disscussion guys are going to lead one.

[_E_]

Originally posted by Tokimune
hey i thought this forum doesnt allow off-topics?
but i guess your disscussion guys are going to lead one.

Gimme a 100% pure on-topic discussion and I ll be a happy man :)

[Sera]

i know there is one.....
but cant remember, just forget it anyway :)

[Kaiser Sigma]

We are more off-topic discussing that we are off topic... let's get back on topic...

[_E_]

Alright, were should i start?,........okay! Which console out of those three would sure survive for the upcoming years, even after the release fo new generation consoles ( just like PSOne is still in the market when there is a PS2, GC and Xbox)

[Sera]

i think it will be the gamecube, having the "take it anywhere monitor" just like the PSOne.

[Kaiser Sigma]

The GC and the PS2 will stay in the market for no less than 5 years (IMO)... I don't think that they will become old or obsolete in less time than that... but then again... it's just my oppinion...

[_E_]

hmm, If another PSIII comes out and has a reversable compabilty with PS2 games, then sure enough, I expect to see the PS2 in the markets for the next 5 years or maybe even more.......

[Kaiser Sigma]

I wouldn' go far than the amount I "predicted"... why ? because technology keeps improving every single day and also because of the game programmers who always "want more hard for better world" (what a lame excuse)...

[Shadow Warrior]

X box is the best.Try Playing METAL GER SOLID SUBSTANCE.

[_E_]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma
I wouldn' go far than the amount I "predicted"... why ? because technology keeps improving every single day and also because of the game programmers who always "want more hard for better world" (what a lame excuse)...

well, the PSX was released on 1994 and is still going on.....yes, eventually you ll need another console when the one you have ages, but to say the truth, the PSX is a living example on how an aging console refuses to die easily.........

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Kingstar


well, the PSX was released on 1994 and is still going on.....yes, eventually you ll need another console when the one you have ages, but to say the truth, the PSX is a living example on how an aging console refuses to die easily.........

Agree, it shows that sometimes it doesn't take a powerful machine to make great games... in japan there are still some games coming out for it...

X box is the best.Try Playing METAL GER SOLID SUBSTANCE.

Interesting... finally some XBOX fan who isn't afraid of saying it... I hope you won't get bashed...

[Drack]

Originally posted by Shadow Warrior
X box is the best.Try Playing METAL GER SOLID SUBSTANCE.

Subststance is ok, but I think that they could have improved the gfx more. Also it would have been nice if the characters in the side stories had voice-overs. Other than that its a good game.

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Shadow Warrior
X box is the best.Try Playing METAL GER SOLID SUBSTANCE.

Kaiser, the guy is a moron. If he get's bashed, it's his own bloody fault for not taking the time to learn to read in grade 1.

First of all, his post was pure spam with little point. His only point seems to be that MGS2 Substance is on the Xbox, which is just ludricous, as it's coming to PC and PS2 as well, and the game sucks.

Kaiser, no offense, but you are a little on the gullible (sp?) side.

[Syed Fawad]

About the console surviving thing:

Nintendo has plans, IIRC, that GC will be there last hardware. So its life is right now the longest. Which will make it the console with the largest GOOD game library when PS3 and XXXBOX2 comes out. That said, I can't imagine what the games will be like on XBOX2 or PS3. Even if the PS3 is just 10 times faster/better than PS2, it makes it quite powerfull and we're really in for graphics better than "The Spirits Within".

I can say that the PS2 will there be in the market even after 2005 (so far the speculated release time for PS3) but I can't say much about the XXXBOX. This consoes just ain't good enough.


X box is the best.Try Playing METAL GER SOLID SUBSTANCE.

You're comment would be more valid if you had stated Shenmue2 instead of MGS2 substance. How old r ya?

[Ninjaa]

Originally posted by Syed Fawad
About the console surviving thing:

Nintendo has plans, IIRC, that GC will be there last hardware. So its life is right now the longest. Which will make it the console with the largest GOOD game library when PS3 and XXXBOX2 comes out.

*ahem* GameCube is NOT Nintendo's last console. As I said at the time, it was simply a bunch of Sony fanboy's taking a simple quote and twisting it around. Nintendo said that they were concentrating on software, not hardware, and everyone flew into a tizzy about it.

Nintendo has said since then that there will be a successor to the GameCube.

[ChrisRay]

Nintendo has plans, IIRC, that GC will be there last hardware. So its life is right now the longest. Which will make it the console with the largest GOOD game library when PS3 and XXXBOX2 comes out. That said, I can't imagine what the games will be like on XBOX2 or PS3. Even if the PS3 is just 10 times faster/better than PS2, it makes it quite powerfull and we're really in for graphics better than "The Spirits Within

Well this may be an instance when Nintendo has an advantage, And for the video game industry, Competition for the best console won't be good, As they are trying to progress technology both sony and Microsoft will be ready to move onto the next thing. This will hurt microsoft the most as its had about a year less on the market than Sony.

Depending on how Sony and Microsoft support the consoles at the end of there lifetime also serves a huge factor in customer loyalty.

Sony has proven that they will support there console fairly well. Ala PSX, Microsoft hasn't had a chance to prove this. All we can really go by is there support for Windows OS.

As it stands right now. Microsoft is supporting Windows 98/ME/2000/XP. And it doesn't look like they will kill off 98 until DX 10.

So it'll be interesting. Microsoft has the money to support the console past its time. We'll see if they do it.

[Syed Fawad]

So there'll be a GC sequel? I bet it won't be as early as PS3 or XXXBOX2 but you never know Nintendo.

[Ninjaa]

No, I am willing to put a lot of money on the probability that it will be the last out the gate.

Sony and MS will be first I wager. Xbox2 and PS3 will be out at close to the same time. Xbox2 will no doubt be touting Halo 4, while Sony pushes GT5 and some sort of Final Fantasy, while promising more RPGs on the horizon. It remains to be seen whether the PS2 is going to remain as the RPG console or not. Nintendo is trying very hard to take that title back, so it will be interesting.

Nintendo's next console will be scheduled to release a few months to a year after the PS3. It will be delayed several times, and when it eventually comes out, we had better well get a Mario game at launch this time, and there will no doubt be something nice from both Factor 5 and Silicon Knights. Square will probably have some cheaper offerings, while developing something bigger. Capcom will no doubt show up with something unexpected. Acclaim will be selling some sort of weird aromatherapy game....


NOTE: Much of this is innacurate, and I am saying as much now. It's still YEARS in the future, and these are merely my impressions of how it will go.

[Gamer1]

here's a Gamer1 prediction,

nintendo would make up another bad controller. it may feel very comfortable... but the button layout just sucks. much like its gc and n64 predecessors.

and grand theft auto will adopt the idea of bmx xxx, and actually put nudity.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Ninja


Kaiser, the guy is a moron. If he get's bashed, it's his own bloody fault for not taking the time to learn to read in grade 1.

First of all, his post was pure spam with little point. His only point seems to be that MGS2 Substance is on the Xbox, which is just ludricous, as it's coming to PC and PS2 as well, and the game sucks.

Kaiser, no offense, but you are a little on the gullible (sp?) side.

On a second thought the post seems like spam, I don't know why but I tought he was another guy... guess I should check their names next time... Ninja, no intention of make it sound like a threat (because is isn't) but you should watch your words... gullible ? yeah whatever... as for the "bashing" part, well, lately your acts (as well as the ones from other ppl) reminds me of the inquisitors... burning ppl on the stakes just because they think it's right or even worst, because they think they have the truth on their sides... anyway, let's move on.

You're comment would be more valid if you had stated Shenmue2 instead of MGS2 substance. How old r ya?

Man, you still haven't played that game and you are already nuts over it... what will happen when you finally play it ? heheheh... nevermind, you are right, after all... it's Shenmue II...

BTW... isn't that post of Gamer1 REAL spam ?

[Gamer1]

>>BTW... isn't that post of Gamer1 REAL spam ?

yes, you do have a point there... i was just trying to lighten the mood... people gets so uptight when they are attacked.

anyway... stop arguing about every single little detail. who freakin' cares!!! its the "I'm always right" game, which really ticks me off.

now back to topic... (before the bashing) ...

i own a ps2 and a gc, i'm just waiting for enough games for the xbox before i make my decision of purchasing one.

I never played shenmue before, cuz i don't own a dc, but tell me... is it as good as they say, what game can it compare to. becuase, the dc is cheap and i wouldn't mind owning one. if shenmue is really a must have game.

geez... lighte

[Ryos]

> I never played shenmue before, cuz i don't own a dc, but tell me... is it as good as they say, what game can it compare to.

Not at ALL. The graphics are decent. Some music (notably the music you aren't forced to listen to) is fabulous. The plot is laughable. Its main strength is that it sort of makes you feel like you're in a neighborhood in Japan. There are some must-own games on the DC, but Shenmue isn't one of them. I'd liken it to a lousy fighting game with lousy RPG elements.

[Ninjaa]

*snickers*

That's why I love you Ryos. You always say what I don't dare. ;)

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Ryos
> I never played shenmue before, cuz i don't own a dc, but tell me... is it as good as they say, what game can it compare to.

Not at ALL. The graphics are decent. Some music (notably the music you aren't forced to listen to) is fabulous. The plot is laughable. Its main strength is that it sort of makes you feel like you're in a neighborhood in Japan. There are some must-own games on the DC, but Shenmue isn't one of them. I'd liken it to a lousy fighting game with lousy RPG elements.


You just killed me due, you just killed me! :dead:


You better add "IMO" to your post. Not everyone thinks the same about that game, at least I don't. You mentioned nothing about its gameplay and its level of interactivity and its method of progression and its secrets and the overall fun value. I bet you hasted through it.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Ryos
> I never played shenmue before, cuz i don't own a dc, but tell me... is it as good as they say, what game can it compare to.

Not at ALL. The graphics are decent. Some music (notably the music you aren't forced to listen to) is fabulous. The plot is laughable. Its main strength is that it sort of makes you feel like you're in a neighborhood in Japan. There are some must-own games on the DC, but Shenmue isn't one of them. I'd liken it to a lousy fighting game with lousy RPG elements.

I know you are a mod and all that stuff, but sorry I agree with Syed you should add the "IMO" part, otherwise your post is BS (no offense, don't ban me, ok ?)... Shenmue's strength lies in making you feel that you are in a japanese neighborhood ? Come on, give me a break, man !... Shenmue IS a must own if you are looking for a really new experience. Yes Shenmue isn't for everyone, but here's a good analogy, if you like reading a book, if you can stand the, sometimes, slow flow of the story, if you enjoy immersing on another world, one where you definitely get acquainted with the ppl who inhabit the place... then, my friend, Shenmue is for you... the story it features is great, and once you play (and end) Shenmue II you will realize that the plot behind it is bigger than what you would ever have thought... the music that you are forced to hear bad ? man, I still shiver when I recall the music from the battle with Chen's son (I can never spell it well so I just put Chen's son), I smile when I remember the music from the Yokosuka bar and I get tranquilezed when I hear the calm music from the Yamanose and Sakuragaoka part... want another little (and awesome) music detail ? want until Christmas's week (around December 19-20 to 25, game time of course) and you will hear 3 different christmas themes, now do you think every game pay attention to those kind of details ? The music for that game IS awesome (IMO), fully orchestrated some times... man I spent hours listening over and over the Shenmue theme or the ShenHua's one...

The graphics ? they are great, (really man you should put that it's just YOUR oppinion) of course they seem normal to the actual games but keep in mind that the game was released on the 2000 year... play Shenmue II and you will realize what great graphics can the DC show you... want examples to back up my oppinions ? I really lost the count of how many days (game time) I spent just standing on a street looking at ppl going on with their lives, ppl who works at day then go to a bar at night and then go to their homes... drunk... wait until february and the cherry blossom trees will start to flourish... man, even the days seem to be longer, not to mention when the snow starts to fall...

The battles ? most of them are enjoyable, and some of them even EPIC... the story IS great it is like seeing a damn great movie.

The plot is laughable.

That is only your oppinion, to me it's fantastic... and it's a pitty you won't play Shenmue II because the plot grows even bigger and more complex...

And please note two things about my post : first it is mostly about Shenmue I (if I have to talk about Shenmue II I will write an entire thread page), and second, I shortened things a lot since this isn't a thread to discuss Shenmue...

BTW of course that all my post it's my oppinion, Gamer1 if you ever have the chance you should give the game a try... providing that my "Who would like Shenmue" points fit your taste...

yes, you do have a point there... i was just trying to lighten the mood... people gets so uptight when they are attacked.

Damn, sorry man... sometimes I'm a real pain in the a**... not my intention though (well actually not this time, I'm a pretty evil guy)...

anyway... stop arguing about every single little detail. who freakin' cares!!! its the "I'm always right" game, which really ticks me off.

Again, I apologize... I tend to fight too much... wasn't my intention to annoy anyone...

[Kane]

I know you are a mod and all that stuff, but sorry I agree with Syed you should add the "IMO" part

Everything is opinion. Can you say redundant?

>Shenmue's strength lies in making you feel that you are in a japanese neighborhood ? Come on, give me a break, man !... Shenmue IS a must own if you are looking for a really new experience.

I Was. Found it dull.

>here's a good analogy, if you like reading a book, if you can stand the, sometimes, slow flow of the story, if you enjoy immersing on another world, one where you definitely get acquainted with the ppl who inhabit the place... then, my friend, Shenmue is for you...

I'm an avid reader, liking Pratchett, Weis and Hickman, James Clavell and Tolkien. I regularly read books in excess of a thousand pages. I hate this game.

>the story it features is great, and once you play (and end) Shenmue II you will realize that the plot behind it is bigger than what you would ever have thought...

Dull, dull, dull.

>The graphics ? they are great, (really man you should put that it's just YOUR oppinion) of course they seem normal to the actual games but keep in mind that the game was released on the 2000 year... play Shenmue II and you will realize what great graphics can the DC show you... want examples to back up my oppinions ? I really lost the count of how many days (game time) I spent just standing on a street looking at ppl going on with their lives, ppl who works at day then go to a bar at night and then go to their homes... drunk... wait until february and the cherry blossom trees will start to flourish... man, even the days seem to be longer, not to mention when the snow starts to fall...

Ryos is not normally one to overstate things. If he says the graphics are decenthe thinks they are above average/good.

>The battles ? most of them are enjoyable, and some of them even EPIC... the story IS great it is like seeing a damn great movie.

One more time. Dull, dull, dull.

I felt this game tried to combine all the elements of verious genres I liked, and fell flat on it's face into a pit of spikes.
Stay away.
But that's just y opinion ;)

[Kaiser Sigma]

Everything is opinion. Can you say redundant?

Sorry didn't get the last part...

I'm an avid reader, liking Pratchett, Weis and Hickman, James Clavell and Tolkien. I regularly read books in excess of a thousand pages. I hate this game.

I love Pratchett's literature yet it's not a good example for my analogy... I like books wether they are long or short... if the story is good I'll read it no matter what. Same applies to the Shenmue saga...

(in regard to Kaiser's oppinion about the story) Dull, dull, dull.

Well then, tell me ? what is your point to find it... dull ? I'd really want to know...

Ryos is not normally one to overstate things. If he says the graphics are decenthe thinks they are above average/good.

Didn't knew that, my mistake...

(in regard to Kaiser's oppinion about the battles) One more time. Dull, dull, dull.

Well same question that I made for the story part... I'm really eager to know what is dull about it... specially since most of the ppl dislike the game...

I felt this game tried to combine all the elements of verious genres I liked, and fell flat on it's face into a pit of spikes

Well, I felt that the game tried to be a genre itself... to me it isn't a RPG, it isn't a fighting game nor an adventure game... it's a FREE game...

[Kane]

>Everything is opinion. Can you say redundant?
>Sorry didn't get the last part...

It means taht everything someone posts here about a game is opinion. Therefor saying 'IMO' is redundant

>I love Pratchett's literature yet it's not a good example for my analogy... I like books wether they are long or short... if the story is good I'll read it no matter what. Same applies to the Shenmue saga...

That's why I also mentioned the other Authors, whcih do t your analogy

Dull - boring. I fount it boring uninteresting and not the kinda game I would wanna paly more than once if once at all.

>Well, I felt that the game tried to be a genre itself... to me it isn't a RPG, it isn't a fighting game nor an adventure game... it's a FREE game...

And like I said. It failed. at least for me, and Ryos, and my brother, and a lot of my friends.....

[_E_]

Point1: Yes, whenever someone comments on a game/console, he should state that this was his/her opinion. Otherwise, his post would look more like a statement. Even though this thread is mostly opinions, one of us should type the 3 letter abbreviation to avoid confusion (IMO). After all, Its just 3 letters and it wont hurt or take much time to type it down. I find Redundancy to be nothing but an excuse. I believe you should always indicate that you are expressing your opinion when you post.

Point2: Shenmue I and II are one of these "Innovative" games made by Sega on the DC era. It might not appeal to all, but nevertheless, It remains as one of Sega's hits, Like it or not. I described this game to be " innovative" because it has the RPG, Action & Adventure elements in it, so i can really specify which genre it belongs to.......

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by Kingstar
Point1: Yes, whenever someone comments on a game/console, he should state that this was his/her opinion. Otherwise, his post would look more like a statement. Even though this thread is mostly opinions, one of us should type the 3 letter abbreviation to avoid confusion (IMO). After all, Its just 3 letters and it wont hurt or take much time to type it down. I find Redundancy to be nothing but an excuse. I believe you should always indicate that you are expressing your opinion when you post.

Point2: Shenmue I and II are one of these "Innovative" games made by Sega on the DC era. It might not appeal to all, but nevertheless, It remains as one of Sega's hits, Like it or not. I described this game to be " innovative" because it has the RPG, Action & Adventure elements in it, so i can really specify which genre it belongs to.......

Point 1 : totally agree, IMO should be stated always, otherwise it'd be an statement...

Point 2 : so far, at least in these forums, it don't appeal to more than 2 persons, Syed and me... even so I like those games I think that the genre that Mr. Susuki created is strong enough to stand on its own and I hail the FREE genre...

Dull - boring. I fount it boring uninteresting and not the kinda game I would wanna paly more than once if once at all.

*nods head* Well, it's your oppinion ppl... IMO some day the genre of Shenmue will be fully understanded... or at least, that's what I hope...

[_E_]

Originally posted by Kaiser Sigma


Point 2 : so far, at least in these forums, it don't appeal to more than 2 persons, Syed and me... even so I like those games I think that the genre that Mr. Susuki created is strong enough to stand on its own and I hail the FREE genre...

*nods head* Well, it's your oppinion ppl... IMO some day the genre of Shenmue will be fully understanded... or at least, that's what I hope...

I think Shenmue is a good game, I find its main problem that people ( or in otherwords, gamers) still didnt accept its concept yet. Otherwise, I think this game has a promising future and i am looking forward for Shenmue III...........

[Kaiser Sigma]

Yeah, I know what you mean, I just hope it doesn't end XXXBOX-clusive...

[Ninjaa]

heh. Kane, this thread has gotten way too crazy for that kind of logic. ;) I have decided just to add the line to my sig, thus preventing me from being assaulted for posting absolutes again. ;)

[mattybones]

LOL....I agree ninja,
I thought shenmue was x-box exclusive allready.

[Kane]

Shenmue 1 and 2 were released the DC. 2 was released to X-Box too.

[Ryos]

> I know you are a mod and all that stuff, but sorry I agree with Syed you should add the "IMO" part, otherwise your post is BS (no offense, don't ban me, ok ?)...

I'm NOT going to state IMO in 9000 posts just because it isn't completely obvious everything I say is my opinion. Everyone else likewise states their opinion. Ex. - when I say PS2 is the best system ever and that Xbox is completely ridiculous, it's just my opinion, not some kind of dogma that everyone has to adhere to. (And before anyone says anything about this example, I don't have any of the three systems and thus don't care about them too much at this point. It's just an example.).

[Kaiser Sigma]

Originally posted by mattybones
LOL....I agree ninja,
I thought shenmue was x-box exclusive allready.

In part it is... Shenmue II for the Dreamcast was canceled... the problem is that in the rest of the world it was late since it was already out (or near out) so the EU and JP versions made it... unfortunately the US didn't... so, Shenmue IIx IS XXXBOX-clusive...

[ChrisRay]

You should clarify that to being Xbox exclusive in the US ;)

[Kaiser Sigma]

heheh, my mistake... Anyway, there's also this nasty rumor about Shenmue III going XXXBOX-clusive (and this one totally exclusive)...

[Syed Fawad]

About the (IMO) thing. Either we should use it properly or we shouldn't use it at all. If every post is ONLY your opinion, then why add IMO to ANY post at all?

Secondly, two ppl love the game to death here; and some hate it. Reason is of course the personal variation of taste.

So when a person asks wether a game is good or not, you should state its features and cons and pros and try do get an idea of the inquirer's taste.

That said, I'll advise you to look again at the beauty of Shenmue.

[Ninjaa]

Syed, it's just that normally people can pick out the difference between fact and opinion in a post. Here's an example.

"The Xbox is nothing but a pile of crap with a bunch of PC-like games on it."
this is an opinion with some elements of truth in it.

"The GameCube has the strongest 1st party games of any of the current systems, and is shaped basically like a cube."
This is a statement of fact.

sometimes when the writer feels it is unclear whether something is an opinion or not, or is posting something very controversial, he will add IMO at the end.

Personally, I think that the rules regarding IMO in this thread are just absurd, so I have added the line to my sig, as everything I post is obviously a reflection of my opinion.

[Carnage]

/"The Xbox is nothing but a pile of crap with a bunch of PC-like games on it."
this is an opinion with some elements of truth in it./

more then "some " elements of truth...hehehe...J/K

[Syed Fawad]

Originally posted by Ninja
Syed, it's just that normally people can pick out the difference between fact and opinion in a post. Here's an example.

"The Xbox is nothing but a pile of crap with a bunch of PC-like games on it."
this is an opinion with some elements of truth in it.

"The GameCube has the strongest 1st party games of any of the current systems, and is shaped basically like a cube."
This is a statement of fact.

sometimes when the writer feels it is unclear whether something is an opinion or not, or is posting something very controversial, he will add IMO at the end.

Personally, I think that the rules regarding IMO in this thread are just absurd, so I have added the line to my sig, as everything I post is obviously a reflection of my opinion.

No need to explain such a basic thing to me Ninja.

The problem is, what anyone say about a game isn't the bottom line and he should clearly clearify that it is just his opinion.

BTW, we are going way off topic by discussing a DC game! :p

Ok now let us try to see that which genres seem best on whic of the three consoles. This will make the thread go in a right direction.

[ChrisRay]

Ok now let us try to see that which genres seem best on whic of the three consoles. This will make the thread go in a right direction.

You know I was at wal mart today and I noticed something that Nintendo and Microsoft were doing on the labels of there products that Sony wasn't doing.

(Sega used to be the only company to do this)

But I remember seeing the old "Sega Saturn exclusive" on the packaging. Its good to see Nintendo And Microsoft trying to tote there exclusive titles on the respective console,

Sony isn't doing it. But Sony has the advantage about 3x More titles right now ;)

[Shadow Warrior]

i voted fpr Ps2,reason its got the best games,and all types of them.e.g
Fighting,racing,Adventure,Action,Horror and many more.