Thoughts on Gay Marriage.

[Spyhop]

but still whats wrong with hate

hate is a natural feeling just like love .

Hate isn't wrong but acting on hatred is. That's the distinction.

[Exodus]

O-ho, I think I'll expand his bubble and rejoice with him.

That sounds a bit gay, dude.

[Strike105X]

Hate isn't wrong but being blinded by hatred is. That's the distinction.

Fixed, sometimes hate can be a good thing (or better said motivator) which can get you pretty far, the only problem is if you lack self control, smartness or you get yourself lost in it, then your probably bound to screw up.

[Riott]

Weather or not your religion prohibits it is a completely different matter. Religion shouldn't have a part in our government, although it would be ignorant to say that it doesn't, but it's not supposed to. I don't see why they shouldn't be able to get married. I mean, how does it really effect us? In my opinion the only reason it's even a question is based purely on religion, which violates the first amendment.

[Innocence]

Sorry, but I wasn't on CNN TV when I said that...
You think people should only refrain from making discriminatory remarks... if they're in the presence of the media / an audience?

In the end, if I found a gay man, for example, I won't do anything stupid to him or try to insult him. But I'll never make a friendship with any...and life goes on.

Well that's alright. :thumb: Miles better than saying they should all die, it must be said. But surely you'd reach a dilemma if you're best friend in the whole world came out as gay? Would you cut all ties with him/her? It'd totally be your own opinion and although the other person would think you're a jerk, it would be fine for you to do, I guess. ...But surely ending that friendship is kinda sad, based on one aspect of his/her life, when they haven't really changed?

[koko]

Since you don't associate with them how can you have hatred for them???????


You can't make statements, and just say "oh lol I was j/k".
The idea of two men **** each-other doesn't appeal to me.
Let's continue with your trail of thinking:

I hate all the Saudi Arabians because of their disquieting life.
Hate as you like. Hating isn't crime.
I wouldn't want to go to a country where I wouldn't feel welcome for such reasons either. On the other hand, if I were gay and had an upright desire to still visit your country, I would do so respecting the norms and values you have over there. It's simply a sign of courtesy and I can understand it is completely against the image people have of a relationship. I do hope that in time there will be a less violent approach in the way of showing disagreement.

It's not like they've ever done anyone wrong. And I can bet that at this very moments there's thousands of muslims in the middle east wishing they were straight because of the way society would look upon them if they'd truly be themselves. After all, they're being treated unjust based on irrational motives that actually have no relation to how their personalities are. Just how it is simply unjust to hate a person because he looks like an Arab and has a wife walk next (or behind) him in traditional clothing. But well, such revelations didn't come to western society from one day to another either. So it will certainly take a while for other cultures to make this progress as well.
Listen, I wouldn't mind if gay people come to SA or to any country in middle east, but they should understand that they can't kiss eachother (for example) in the street or show some love to eachother, simply because the society here doesn't accept it.

I myself have met two gay men in my life, and they were kind of old men. The first one was 4 years ago. Strange old man (and I think he's Saudi) came to me and asked me about a place; I answered him about it..after that he touched my arm, me: WTF. He said: oh, your body is good, are you an athletic guy? Me: hmm, kinda, thanks. And he started examining my arm! I didn't woe and said "oh people, look at this *** hahaha" I just ignored him.
I ignored the other one too, that's 2 or 3 years ago.

Regarding irrational motives: Why some countries in Europe prohibited the Hijab?
You think people should only refrain from making discriminatory remarks... if they're in the presence of the media / an audience?
Yes, if those remarks are insulting. Again, I wasn't serious, so let it go.
Well that's alright. :thumb: Miles better than saying they should all die, it must be said. But surely you'd reach a dilemma if you're best friend in the whole world came out as gay? Would you cut all ties with him/her? It'd totally be your own opinion and although the other person would think you're a jerk, it would be fine for you to do, I guess. ...But surely ending that friendship is kinda sad, based on one aspect of his/her life, when they haven't really changed?
Yes, I'll break that friendship.

[Kaizen]

Regarding irrational motives: Why some countries in Europe prohibited the Hijab?


Irrational?

Shopping centres do not allow hoodies, it's unfair to allow hijabs and other equally covering headgear.

[Demigod]

I find it interesting how this issue is still being discussed today. I remember doing this years ago on these very boards when I was still a Christian. Sadly, things don't seem to have changed much since then...

Back then I tried to defend my position against gay marriage on logic and reason (I believed that marriage should be between a man and a woman, with only civil unions permitted for gay people). However, now I freely admit that my position back then was actually based on bigotry and hatred (I think guys like Boltzmann saw right through it). The truth is, back then I really didn't like gay people - the thought sickened me - and didn't want marriage corrupted for the sake of those people. However, ever since dropping my religion and adopting secular humanism I've had no problems accepting homosexuality. In the end it's all about human happiness and we should celebrate every form of love there is (there's more than enough hatred in this world, don't need more of it).

I thought Proposition 8 was a travesty and I had no doubt that it would be overturned. There was simply no way that such a law would stay on the books, not in this day and age. I can only say that I'm happy for the homosexual community in California - hopefully they'll do better with their marriages than we heterosexuals have (50% divorce rate and all:rolleyes:).

[Exodus]

Irrational?

Shopping centres do not allow hoodies, it's unfair to allow hijabs and other equally covering headgear.

Nevermind shopping centres - think security and identification. Why don't we all just wear ski masks and do whatever we want without being identified?

[Xblade]

Hate is the result of ignorance unless someone has done something so serious to you that it is warranted.

[Kazuya]

Koko: and here I am thinking you would be put in their shoes when feeling unjustified hatred towards you. That's why I said "following your train of thought". I don't hate anyone without them doing me something bad before and even then it's hard for me. Why? Because something called informed opinion.

In other news, in an unprecedented turn of events, the Mexican Government just sued the catholic church for moral damages. They gave them 2 days to apologize for their remarks about this law allowing gay marriage saying the Supreme Court Justices were corrupt and were bribed so they would aprove this law, all of this in a national medium. In an act of conceit they said they stick to their comments and were consequently sued.

If you ask me, it was about time. They have put their noses in every governmental move since I can remember. There is a separation between state and church and it should be upheld. I don't know if they feel special or anything, because I don't see representants of any other religion saying anything since.... I can't remember if they have said anything in press at all.

I have had several gay friends. Pefectly normal, perfectly fun. Noone has ever tried anything with me and what if they tried? I don't have a problem if a woman that I don't like starts flirting with me. I just get things straight, feel a little flattered and that's all. It's the same with them. You feel flattered for being considered attractive and say "no, thank you". It's as easy as that.


Ninja edit: This is an update. There has been a press conference and this was said by the representant of the mexican government: No religion has the right to impose it's particular philosophy, it's special moral to the rest of the society, and it must follow and respect what the institutions of the mexican state have dictated.

[Ahielia]

In other news, in an unprecedented turn of events, the Mexican Government just sued the catholic church for moral damages. They gave them 2 days to apologize for their remarks about this law allowing gay marriage saying the Supreme Court Justices were corrupt and were bribed so they would aprove this law, all of this in a national medium. In an act of conceit they said they stick to their comments and were consequently sued.

Ninja edit: This is an update. There has been a press conference and this was said by the representant of the mexican government: No religion has the right to impose it's particular philosophy, it's special moral to the rest of the society, and it must follow and respect what the institutions of the mexican state have dictated.

GREAT SUCCESS!

Now I'm waiting for the rest of the civilized world to follow.

[Xblade]

GREAT SUCCESS!

Now I'm waiting for the rest of the civilized world to follow.

You better get some entertainment and booz cause its gonna be a long wait.


I have had several gay friends. Pefectly normal, perfectly fun. Noone has ever tried anything with me and what if they tried? I don't have a problem if a woman that I don't like starts flirting with me. I just get things straight, feel a little flattered and that's all. It's the same with them. You feel flattered for being considered attractive and say "no, thank you". It's as easy as that.



Homophobes aren't sexually secure enough to take it as flattery.

[Irukapooka]

I find it interesting how this issue is still being discussed today. I remember doing this years ago on these very boards when I was still a Christian. Sadly, things don't seem to have changed much since then...

Back then I tried to defend my position against gay marriage on logic and reason (I believed that marriage should be between a man and a woman, with only civil unions permitted for gay people). However, now I freely admit that my position back then was actually based on bigotry and hatred (I think guys like Boltzmann saw right through it). The truth is, back then I really didn't like gay people - the thought sickened me - and didn't want marriage corrupted for the sake of those people. However, ever since dropping my religion and adopting secular humanism I've had no problems accepting homosexuality. In the end it's all about human happiness and we should celebrate every form of love there is (there's more than enough hatred in this world, don't need more of it).

I thought Proposition 8 was a travesty and I had no doubt that it would be overturned. There was simply no way that such a law would stay on the books, not in this day and age. I can only say that I'm happy for the homosexual community in California - hopefully they'll do better with their marriages than we heterosexuals have (50% divorce rate and all:rolleyes:).

Wow Demigod. I've only been here for a little over a year and a half. I knew that you used to be a Christian, but I'm somewhat surprised that you had that stance.

Since the idea of homosexuality and the thought of them marrying sickened you, I would be interested in knowing what changed your mind after you dropped religion.

[Cid Highwind]

I find it interesting how this issue is still being discussed today. I remember doing this years ago on these very boards when I was still a Christian. Sadly, things don't seem to have changed much since then...

Back then I tried to defend my position against gay marriage on logic and reason (I believed that marriage should be between a man and a woman, with only civil unions permitted for gay people). However, now I freely admit that my position back then was actually based on bigotry and hatred (I think guys like Boltzmann saw right through it). The truth is, back then I really didn't like gay people - the thought sickened me - and didn't want marriage corrupted for the sake of those people. However, ever since dropping my religion and adopting secular humanism I've had no problems accepting homosexuality. In the end it's all about human happiness and we should celebrate every form of love there is (there's more than enough hatred in this world, don't need more of it).

I thought Proposition 8 was a travesty and I had no doubt that it would be overturned. There was simply no way that such a law would stay on the books, not in this day and age. I can only say that I'm happy for the homosexual community in California - hopefully they'll do better with their marriages than we heterosexuals have (50% divorce rate and all:rolleyes:).
Amen :)

Ninja edit: This is an update. There has been a press conference and this was said by the representant of the mexican government: No religion has the right to impose it's particular philosophy, it's special moral to the rest of the society, and it must follow and respect what the institutions of the mexican state have dictated. PWND :lol:

Regarding irrational motives: Why some countries in Europe prohibited the Hijab?Personally I don't see a reason why the more common hijab should be forbidden. That's the one that only covers the hair right? It doesn't cover too much, and if you're out to do anything it has the same effect as having a new haircut in my opinion. The niqab I believe is the headgear we first got to know through ninjas. Which are forbidden aren't allowed to walk freely in the streets either. In all seriousness, there is no way to identify someone when you cannot see their face or eyes at all. And while I'm not paranoid by believing every muslim is a potential bomber, there should be some sort of identification possible.

[Phil]

I wonder if it is possible to make a controversial thread on here WITHOUT religion being brought into the discussion. Quick, everybody let's discuss Planck's Constant!!!!!

[gamefreak94]

Nevermind shopping centres - think security and identification. Why don't we all just wear ski masks and do whatever we want without being identified?

Since when did your exact identity have to be clearly visible in every public place you go?

Religion is often accused of intervening in people's personal matters, but when the opposite happens and totally non-harming religious practices such as specific clothing is banned without reason, everybody just sits back, agrees to it, and finds excuses to defend it.

Double standards in short.

Personally I don't see a reason why the more common hijab should be forbidden. That's the one that only covers the hair right? It doesn't cover too much, and if you're out to do anything it has the same effect as having a new haircut in my opinion. The niqab I believe is the headgear we first got to know through ninjas. Which are forbidden aren't allowed to walk freely in the streets either. In all seriousness, there is no way to identify someone when you cannot see their face or eyes at all. And while I'm not paranoid by believing every muslim is a potential bomber, there should be some sort of identification possible.

The humble scarf (which only covers the hair and portions of the neck) is also banned in most countries.

[snickothemule]

Since when did your exact identity have to be clearly visible in every public place you go?

Since thieves discovered the full effectiveness of being shrouded from the eyes of security.

There is also the flip side of that coin, why should religious people recieve exemption from the house rules, whereas others have to follow the dress code?

[Strike105X]

Wait a minute this is a discussion about clothing ? oO FFS regardless of the reason everyone should wear what they want... Its times like this i'm happy to live here...

[gamefreak94]

Since thieves discovered the full effectiveness of being shrouded from the eyes of security.

There is also the flip side of that coin, why should religious people recieve exemption from the house rules, whereas others have to follow the dress code?

Justify the banning of the scarf then.

[Cid Highwind]

Justify the banning of the scarf then.

In my opinion, it can't. Unless you have a duty where it completely goes against the ethical code, such as performing church duty, but I doubt any muslim would do so.

However, in few select cases, such as if you're a judge, I think no sign of religion is allowed to be shown, as you should be fully neutral. In such cases wearing a cross around your neck isn't allowed either. But for everyday life, I don't see how I could possibly take offense by the headscarf of muslim women. Most likely they are more bothered if I'm wearing my metal concert gear, but that's their problem :p

I don't know if this is simply what you'd like to hear, but I do think that some politicians and the ignorant people following them take the islamophobia way too far. And their motives are based on FUD.

@ Strike: You're right, this isn't actually about gay marriage anymore at all. Let's not turn it into yet another generic debate about religion.

[koko]

This is hijab:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Hijabs.jpg/220px-Hijabs.jpg
Irrational?

Shopping centres do not allow hoodies, it's unfair to allow hijabs and other equally covering headgear.
Yes, Irrational.
Koko: and here I am thinking you would be put in their shoes when feeling unjustified hatred towards you. That's why I said "following your train of thought". I don't hate anyone without them doing me something bad before and even then it's hard for me. Why? Because something called informed opinion.
If you accept/like something, don't try to enforce it to others. I don't like it because I find gayness is not natural. But you don't agree, that's cool, but I won't enforce my opinion on you.

If I live in a society like where you live in; I won't do what that catholic church did. That country have theists and atheists, so the democracy there is unlike where I live. Saudi government system based on the Quran and hadith.

Personally I don't see a reason why the more common hijab should be forbidden. That's the one that only covers the hair right? It doesn't cover too much, and if you're out to do anything it has the same effect as having a new haircut in my opinion. The niqab I believe is the headgear we first got to know through ninjas. Which are forbidden aren't allowed to walk freely in the streets either. In all seriousness, there is no way to identify someone when you cannot see their face or eyes at all. And while I'm not paranoid by believing every muslim is a potential bomber, there should be some sort of identification possible.
I agree with the niqab part.
I don't know if this is simply what you'd like to hear, but I do think that some politicians and the ignorant people following them take the islamophobia way too far. And their motives are based on FUD.

Very.
That's happening in Holland too. Some politicians want to ban the Quran for untrue reasons. They claim that the Quran incites to kill unbelievers for no reason!!!

[gamefreak94]

I don't know if this is simply what you'd like to hear, but I do think that some politicians and the ignorant people following them take the islamophobia way too far. And their motives are based on FUD.

I respect you for realizing this fact, shame so many others fail to.

[Innocence]

That's happening in Holland too. Some politicians want to ban the Quran for untrue reasons. They claim that the Quran incites to kill unbelievers for no reason!!!

I read about that. It's quite awful. The MP who initially called for the ban concluded his letter with what can be seen as anti-immigrant sentiment based surely on race. With a potentially racist head of the movement, and with freedom of religion to come into play, I doubt the move will be enforced, however.

Anyway, it must be said that this thread has been quite off topic for some time. :p

[Xblade]

I wonder if it is possible to make a controversial thread on here WITHOUT religion being brought into the discussion. Quick, everybody let's discuss Planck's Constant!!!!!

It's not possible to discuss prejudice against gays without discussing religion, as it is the source.





Very.
That's happening in Holland too. Some politicians want to ban the Quran for untrue reasons. They claim that the Quran incites to kill unbelievers for no reason!!!

Oh I wonder why.


The Quran specifically states that no person is born homosexual.
Murdering them is also fine, cause you know, they can become straight at will.

American Islam Society Says

"There are many reasons why it is forbidden in Islam. Homosexuality is dangerous for the health of the individuals and for the society. It is a main cause of one of the most harmful and fatal diseases. It is disgraceful for both men and women. It degrades a person. Islam teaches that men should be men and women should be women. Homosexuality deprives a man of his manhood and a woman of her womanhood. It is the most un-natural way of life. Homosexuality leads to the destruction of family life."

Of COURSE!
So being gay is evil......and makes men less manly.

Great reasoning there.

[gamefreak94]

The Quran specifically states that no person is born homosexual.
Murdering them is also fine, cause you know, they can become straight at will.

American Islam Society Says

"There are many reasons why it is forbidden in Islam. Homosexuality is dangerous for the health of the individuals and for the society. It is a main cause of one of the most harmful and fatal diseases. It is disgraceful for both men and women. It degrades a person. Islam teaches that men should be men and women should be women. Homosexuality deprives a man of his manhood and a woman of her womanhood. It is the most un-natural way of life. Homosexuality leads to the destruction of family life."

Of COURSE!
So being gay is evil......and makes men less manly.

Great reasoning there.

And where exactly did the society said it's okay to murder gays? Where does the Quran say this? Safe to assume I know a lot more about the latter then you do, and I can bet my life on the fact that the Quran doesn't, in any way promote violence and brutality.

BTW, doesn't it go against one of the basic charters of democracy to ban people from just reading a book? Next time if some Muslims countries ban publishing of gay magazines there will be a major uproar, but banning the Quran is okay right? Uhh....yeah double standards again.

[Xblade]

And where exactly did the society said it's okay to murder gays? Where does the Quran say this? Safe to assume I know a lot more about the latter then you do, and I can bet my life on the fact that the Quran doesn't, in any way promote violence and brutality.

Then why does violence and brutality happen towards them anyway?

Certainly this hatred isn't spontaneously generating in peoples minds.



BTW, doesn't it go against one of the basic charters of democracy to ban people from just reading a book? Next time if some Muslims countries ban publishing of gay magazines there will be a major uproar, but banning the Quran is okay right? Uhh....yeah double standards again.

You keep crying about double standards as if the Quran has less leeway then homosexuals.

[gamefreak94]

If someone stabs another person with a knife, who's to blame?

a) the guy who did the stabbing?
b) the knife itself?

Atm you're firmly sticking with option b which, quite frankly is dumb.

[Xblade]

If someone stabs another person with a knife, who's to blame?

a) the guy who did the stabbing?
b) the knife itself?

Atm you're firmly sticking with option b which, quite frankly is dumb.
Assuming the knife has the power to influence the holders morals and replace logic with stupidity, yes.

In this case the motive is more relevant then the means.
The ignorant are easily swayed.

[Strike105X]

This whole discussion is retarded:

The ignorant are easily swayed.

http://forums.ngemu.com/open-discussion/137829-american-tv-does-influence-brainwash-people-proof.html

That line can easily go for TV, movies, anime & games as well so let their be no more of those as well.

Stop trying to impose your beliefs on to others. Your worse then a religious zealout seriously ... you need to get a better overview of other peoples religions some of the points you make are utterly ridiculous, you just ignorantly take any anti Quran/arabic propaganda you hear for granted without even bothering to actually learn a little about it, though best would be to just get over it.

[gamefreak94]

Assuming the knife has the power to influence the holders morals and replace logic with ignorance, yes.

Wow, I'm not even gonna bother continuing to argue with you. I'll end with this:

The Quran is a beautiful piece of literature, even Western writers who didn't read it with a pre-conceived hate for it admit this. I've personally read it from beginning to end and I can safely say that even if you pick it up as an atheist without belief in God, it has a lot to teach. Verses upon countless verses telling followers to exercise forgiveness, honesty, sympathy and justice. Numerous references to the rewards of doing so, and numerous references of the consequences of failing to do so. I cannot, even in my wildest dreams imagine how it does, in any way promote violence or ignorance.

In other words, you have a highly twisted, false belief about a piece of literature about which, it is apparent you know absolutely nothing (could you even spell it correctly before I mentioned it :rolleyes:) and just choose to believe whatever Fox News and the rest of your propagandist media tells you (they don't know jack about it either...).

To all those who don't choose to be so close-minded: If you're going "BS, of course gamefreak's gonna say that, he's a Muslim himself", then please do actually try to READ some of it before making up your mind. Oh yeah, and don't pick verses from the middle of a 100-page chapter and go "look lol lol lol violence!!". Just like other books, there is a context to everything.

@strike: About Arabs seeming grim, well you probably just had the coincidence of meeting some of the more grim ones? It's entirely based on personality and doesn't have roots in religion at all. According to one of Prophet Muhammad's (SAW) sayings, "Charity is incumbent on every Muslim, and it is an act of charity that you greet another person with a smile". So acting cold and grim on purpose without reason is actually a sinful act.

That will be all...this thread is getting way too off-topic now.

[Strike105X]

@strike: About Arabs seeming grim, well you probably just had the coincidence of meeting some of the more grim ones? It's entirely based on personality and doesn't have roots in religion at all. According to one of Prophet Muhammad's (SAW) sayings, "Charity is incumbent on every Muslim, and it is an act of charity that you greet another person with a smile". So acting cold and grim on purpose without reason is actually a sinful act.

Nope they don't seem grim that was just a forgotten unfinished line which should originally had a totally different meaning but i decided not to use anymore, so basically i just forgot to delete that unfinished sentence :P.

[Xblade]

Wow, I'm not even gonna bother continuing to argue with you. I'll end with this:

The Quran is a beautiful piece of literature, even Western writers who didn't read it with a pre-conceived hate for it admit this. I've personally read it from beginning to end and I can safely say that even if you pick it up as an atheist without belief in God, it has a lot to teach. Verses upon countless verses telling followers to exercise forgiveness, honesty, sympathy and justice. Numerous references to the rewards of doing so, and numerous references of the consequences of failing to do so. I cannot, even in my wildest dreams imagine how it does, in any way promote violence or ignorance.

In other words, you have a highly twisted, false belief about a piece of literature about which, it is apparent you know absolutely nothing (could you even spell it correctly before I mentioned it :rolleyes:) and just choose to believe whatever Fox News and the rest of your propagandist media tells you (they don't know jack about it either...).

To all those who don't choose to be so close-minded: If you're going "BS, of course gamefreak's gonna say that, he's a Muslim himself", then please do actually try to READ some of it before making up your mind. Oh yeah, and don't pick verses from the middle of a 100-page chapter and go "look lol lol lol violence!!". Just like other books, there is a context to everything.

@strike: About Arabs seeming grim, well you probably just had the coincidence of meeting some of the more grim ones? It's entirely based on personality and doesn't have roots in religion at all. According to one of Prophet Muhammad's (SAW) sayings, "Charity is incumbent on every Muslim, and it is an act of charity that you greet another person with a smile".
That will be all...this thread is getting way too off-topic now.
O-ho, that doesn't match-up with the discrimination its followers are so fond of towards gays. I am 100% sure the Quran is full of ignorant teachings, I have its disciples to judge such--and For the record gamefreak, I don't watch television.

If part of a book is rotten, then surely the rest will follow, no?


So acting cold and grim on purpose without reason is actually a sinful act.

Proof of ignorance identified!

[Phil]

I want to meet the person who conceived and wrote the Bible. He must have been have been one hell of a man!

[Xblade]

I want to meet the person who conceived and wrote the Bible. He must have been have been one hell of a man!


Ohrly.

eD52OlkKfNs&p

[koko]

I read about that. It's quite awful. The MP who initially called for the ban concluded his letter with what can be seen as anti-immigrant sentiment based surely on race. With a potentially racist head of the movement, and with freedom of religion to come into play, I doubt the move will be enforced, however.

Anyway, it must be said that this thread has been quite off topic for some time. :p
You have a point :)

Well, this kind of threads have some off topic posts, as usual.

The Quran specifically states that no person is born homosexual.
Murdering them is also fine, cause you know, they can become straight at will.
if HE/SHE is Muslim.

If he/she is not muslim; no one will execute him because he's gay.
Of COURSE!
So being gay is evil......and makes men less manly.

Hey, if you like gay people or like being gay, that's cool. But don't try to be smartass and start saying bull****s.

It's not your business if people like or hate gay people :dead:

[Xblade]

You have a point :)

if HE/SHE is Muslim.

Yeah and stoning muslims to death is so much more justifiable than stoning non muslims to death
/sarcasm/


Hey, if you like gay people or like being gay, that's cool. But don't try to be smartass and start saying bull****s.

BS? The only BS here is coming off your keyboard sir.



It's not your business if people like or hate gay people :dead:

Its everyone's business as they are part of society, regardless of whether or not you deem them important.

[Exodus]

Since when did your exact identity have to be clearly visible in every public place you go?

Religion is often accused of intervening in people's personal matters, but when the opposite happens and totally non-harming religious practices such as specific clothing is banned without reason, everybody just sits back, agrees to it, and finds excuses to defend it.

Double standards in short.

I don't know all the terms for this and that, but the article of clothing that only shows the eyes in this day and age of heightened security? Sorry. Unacceptable. If your culture wants to hide people behind masks and then complain about things getting blowed up, that's up to them. Personally, I like the idea that people have to careful about where they show (or don't show) their face.

[Strike105X]

I personally like the idea i'm free to wear what i want :).

[gamefreak94]

I don't know all the terms for this and that, but the article of clothing that only shows the eyes in this day and age of heightened security? Sorry. Unacceptable. If your culture wants to hide people behind masks and then complain about things getting blowed up, that's up to them. Personally, I like the idea that people have to careful about where they show (or don't show) their face.

As mentioned twice before, the scarf is banned too....which is essentially the same as a snow cap.

[Strike105X]

Or a hood.

[Exodus]

I personally like the idea i'm free to wear what i want :).

All within reason.

As mentioned twice before, the scarf is banned too....which is essentially the same as a snow cap.

And... I'm not talking about the scarf. I'm talking about the one I'm talking about. I'm not trying to justify their banning of the scarf.

[Strike105X]

All within reason.

What's unreasonable about a scarf ? (btw many of our women liked to wear them to, well now maybe not so much since it conflicts with the latest trends...)

[Exodus]

I'm talking in general. Not about scarves.

[Demigod]

Wow Demigod. I've only been here for a little over a year and a half. I knew that you used to be a Christian, but I'm somewhat surprised that you had that stance.

Since the idea of homosexuality and the thought of them marrying sickened you, I would be interested in knowing what changed your mind after you dropped religion.
Sorry for the long delay, I've been very busy these past few days.

The main reason for my digust was ignorance. Like many other people I feared homosexuality because I didn't know about it and because it seemed unnatural and counter to what I considered was the norm. The bible only reinforced this view. I believed the bible when it said that homosexuality was an abomination (although I didn't quite agree when it said homosexuals deserve to be stoned to death). When I last debated this here I was ready to let gays be together, but didn't want the definition of marriage changed to accomodate sinners.

A number of factors caused me to change my views. First was the realization that most, if not all of the opposition to gay marriage came from the religious camp. After dropping my religion I could no longer accept bible-based arguments as valid, especially over matters of social policy (I'm a firm believer in the separation of church and state). Furthermore, I also realized that many of the arguments against gay marriage were unfounded, based on either fear or ignorance (probably both) and that it was a constitutional right that no one could deny. Finally, I saw the intense hatred, bigotry, and violence coming from the anti-gay crowd (Matthew Shepard) and decided that it just couldn't be right. The combination of these things meant that I could no longer hold to my former position and since then I've been an advocate of gay rights.

[Irukapooka]

It's okay, thank you for getting back to me when you did. :)

Interesting...

I belong to a religion that by American standards, is probably one of the most conservative beliefs next to the Amish. :p I was raised in the belief system my entire life. But when I got home from school one day, I was sickened with the fact that so many people were against gay marriages, especially from a religious standpoint. In all honesty, I never even thought of being homosexual as wrong at all with my religion.

Frustrated with what I heard from school about people freaking out about gays wanting rights to actually have the same type of marriage unions like a man and woman have, I vented it out to my mother. She told me that she took the same stance as other conservative religious people, not believing that homosexuals should have that same type of bond. I then realized that that was what my church believed as well...

And, well, I was kind of sickened to my stomach. I should have known that that was the stance my church took, but for some reason, I never really thought about it too much.

Even though I do not support homosexuality, I do feel that it is wrong to not give out equal rights to anyone just because they're "different". Isn't that what Christ taught? To not judge and treat everyone in the same way?

So that's why I was somewhat surprised that you didn't take the same stance as I did, Demigod, when you were a Christian.

[Xblade]

It's okay, thank you for getting back to me when you did. :)

Interesting...

I belong to a religion that by American standards, is probably one of the most conservative beliefs next to the Amish. :p I was raised in the belief system my entire life. But when I got home from school one day, I was sickened with the fact that so many people were against gay marriages, especially from a religious standpoint. In all honesty, I never even thought of being homosexual as wrong at all with my religion.

Frustrated with what I heard from school about people freaking out about gays wanting rights to actually have the same type of marriage unions like a man and woman have, I vented it out to my mother. She told me that she took the same stance as other conservative religious people, not believing that homosexuals should have that same type of bond. I then realized that that was what my church believed as well...

And, well, I was kind of sickened to my stomach. I should have known that that was the stance my church took, but for some reason, I never really thought about it too much.

Even though I do not support homosexuality, I do feel that it is wrong to not give out equal rights to anyone just because they're "different". Isn't that what Christ taught? To not judge and treat everyone in the same way?

So that's why I was somewhat surprised that you didn't take the same stance as I did, Demigod, when you were a Christian.

Thats because they did a half-assed job brain washing you. :evil:
j/k lol

[Irukapooka]

Lol you whore. :p (jks, jks ;))

Nah, they've always taught that marriage is sacred between a man and a woman. And yes, I do believe that.

Also while reading the Bible, you read about Sodom and Gomorrah.

But there were very few verses, if I recall correctly, that actually said that it was a sin to lay with another man. But hell, we're human. We are sinners anyway. Even that is mentioned in the Bible.

Doesn't anyone recall when Christ's apostles brought forward a woman that had commited fornification to Christ? The community wanted to stone her and kill her for her sin of having sex outside of marriage. Christ did not participate in the uproar. What he did was look at the ground, and drew in the dirt with his finger while the woman was before him. The apostles asked how she should be punished/killed for her sins. Christ then said "He who has not sinned, cast the first stone". The community was stunned with what He said and eventually, the crowd dispersed, leaving only the woman at Christ's feet. Christ got up, extended his hand to help her up and told her to leave, she was forgiven and to not commit the sin anymore.

See? Even the Bible says so. So I don't see why everyone is out for blood on the homosexual community. I don't understand why so many people call themselves Christians and then feel like they are God themselves and free to judge whomever because they may not be *gasp* Christian or *gasp* a sinner! They forget what they have been taught. Disgusting.

And I've always had a personal belief of what I feel God and Christ expect from me and from the world. And I have always, ALWAYS followed those beliefs of my heart more than the words of a mortal man. I feel that my beliefs are true. Yes, I could be very wrong, but at least I feel like I have confirmation on what I believe instead of a blind follower.

[blueshogun96]

Ohrly.

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Hypocrisy and nitpicking at it's finest :rolleyes:

[Xblade]

Hypocrisy and nitpicking at it's finest :rolleyes:
I hope you were talking about the woman.........because I don't see how you could perceive it otherwise without being high on weed.

[blueshogun96]

I've explained this whole numerous times, and I thought I made the whole thing so plain that anyone would understand... and you STILL don't get it? oO You either don't remember, or ignored my words completely last time. I'm beginning to think that no one listens to me anymore. Fine, so be it. I get sick and tired of repeating myself. :hdbash:

EDIT: You know what? Just forget it, this thread was doomed to go know where fast from the beginning. Let's liven it up with a bit of humor, shall we?

MbPNcE5Jayw
Can someone say "Sexism" and "Da-Da-Da-Double Standard"? (I'm talking about the woman, not Marc Rudov. He's the man!) :lol:

Get a load of some of the comments:

"It is funny how women are all pro-homosexuality but they love shaming men by calling them "gay" if they get offended." -zeparegods

"Conservative femminists? When did that happen.. Mark Rudov is the man." -cortezfu2

"Women are not heterosexual, only 10% of the woman actually like men, the rest are neutral and herd animals that just go with the flow. If society says Gay is cool, they go gay. If society says go straight, they go straight!" -6evorev6

^ I agree with these.

Also, I think people go along with this whole gay marriage thing regardless of whether they agree with it or not because they are afraid of being labeled as a "homophobe". And is it just me, or have straight people become so sick of marriage, they happily hand it over to the gays on a silver platter?

[Xblade]

I've explained this whole numerous times, and I thought I made the whole thing so plain that anyone would understand... and you STILL don't get it? oO You either don't remember, or ignored my words completely last time. I'm beginning to think that no one listens to me anymore. Fine, so be it. I get sick and tired of repeating myself. :hdbash:

EDIT: You know what? Just forget it, this thread was doomed to go know where fast from the beginning. Let's liven it up with a bit of humor, shall we?

MbPNcE5Jayw
Can someone say "Sexism" and "Da-Da-Da-Double Standard"? (I'm talking about the woman, not Marc Rudov. He's the man!) :lol:


All Marc Rudov did was change the subject when she shot him down with logic.

Nothing admirable about that, he used the actions of others to try to call her a hypocrite.

[blueshogun96]

All Marc Rudov did was change the subject when she shot him down with logic.

Nothing admirable about that, he used the actions of others to try to call her a hypocrite.

She's an even bigger hypocrite herself (this subject aside). That woman has a history of illogical arguments, sexism and hypocrisy. She doesn't have s@#% on Marc Rudov just because she had one point for a change.

[Xblade]

She's an even bigger hypocrite herself (this subject aside). That woman has a history of illogical arguments, sexism and hypocrisy. She doesn't have s@#% on Marc Rudov just because she had one point for a change.


My post was based on the video you posted and it clearly represented how ignorant and insecure Marc Rudov was.


Perhaps if you wanted to show her hypocrisy and sexism you should of embedded a video demonstrating such. :p

I can't read minds shogun...........

not yet anyway. :evil:

[blueshogun96]

My post was based on the video you posted and it clearly represented how ignorant and insecure Marc Rudov was.


Perhaps if you wanted to show her hypocrisy and sexism you should of embedded a video demonstrating such. :p

I can't read minds shogun...........

not yet anyway. :evil:

Very well, you asked for it!

ChICfhHUULA

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Unless you're a feminised pussiewhipped mangina (which many of you on this forum appear to be), you'll see how this woman just defends women just for the sake of defending women. Devoid of logic in many cases, contradictory, and totally ignorant of the cold hard facts.

[Xblade]

O-ho, but men have been using the same "logic" for centuries up until recently. Its hard to condemn feminist when...........errr.......I don't know a word for the male equivalent to feminism.........because there isn't one, because men(straight ones anyway) have always had all rights and privileges.


Hypocrisy at its best.
:evil:

[blueshogun96]

Marc Rudov doesn't condemn feminism, he's against what modern day feminism is about... and that is not about having equal rights like in the beginning. It's about having more rights, excessive privileges, favour of all domestic disputes and ridiculous verdicts that allow you walk away scott free of all your crimes and blaming everything on men instead of taking responsibility for their actions. Seriously, am I the only one in this dammed forum that thinks it's odd that a woman can legally make false domestic violence or rape claims against her boyfriend/husband just to take him to court and take half or all of his money/possessions even though it was an absolute lie? Hell, they can do even worse such as KILL their husbands and/or kids claiming insanity or abuse to get away with it... and they do oO

Women have had their equality for quite a while now. If their purpose was to support those wronged by society due to sexism and maintain the suffrage they've earned, there would be no problem. But now the stereotype that "women are never satisfied" is beginning to look like truth because of them. It's all about having more rights then men while being exempt of things they don't like such as the draft. If you support modern day feminism as a man, than to me, you're worse than an Islamic terrrorist running around with the Quran in one hand and a bomb in the other because these are the same women that call all men on Earth including yourself rapists. It's a load of dogmatic BS.

What ever the hell happened centuries ago, only happened to those living back then, NOT those living today. So where's the logic in getting revenge on people that had nothing to do with the events that happened back then living today? Two wrongs don't make a right, one of life's most basic principles. It also reinforces the stereotype that women are always one way or another mentally stuck in the past. Life is pain, get over it.

Btw, it's called masculism (feminism equivalent for men).
Masculism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism)